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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 2:00 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Ottawan View Post


Not too much to say about it. It definitely looks like we'll be seeing first and foremost a recommendation for a LRT transit loop coming out of this study. I look forward to the final (recommendations) report being released.
Oh what a surprise! NCC study to come out with pre-determined outcome! Film at eleven! Later in the newscast, sun to rise in east, set in west on Wednesday.
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 2:13 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Ha! For moving the masses, is a downtown loop really that useful?

I only briefly scanned the report but I noticed that a lot of things were based on popularity. It is liking governing by polls. It does not necessarily produce good planning.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 3:36 AM
Ottawan Ottawan is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Ha! For moving the masses, is a downtown loop really that useful?

I only briefly scanned the report but I noticed that a lot of things were based on popularity. It is liking governing by polls. It does not necessarily produce good planning.
It would make sense that things here were based on popularity since this was a report on the participatory part of the study. A technical portion is being conducted seperately.

That said, I agree with Uhuniau - not just with today's report, but from the start it seems to have been manufactured to get a very specific result. Considering that fact, it's taking them frustratingly long to get to it.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2010, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottawan View Post
It would make sense that things here were based on popularity since this was a report on the participatory part of the study. A technical portion is being conducted seperately.

That said, I agree with Uhuniau - not just with today's report, but from the start it seems to have been manufactured to get a very specific result. Considering that fact, it's taking them frustratingly long to get to it.
Umm, guys, this is a consultation report. It's not even been prepared by the consultants - it was done by, ahem, consultation sub-consultants.

I would also point out that the early rumours were of a plan to bastardize the Prince of Wales Bridge and turn it into a bus bridge with a bus interchange at ... Bayview - where Ottawa's TMP (carried out in part by the same consultants) had just finished rejecting a BRT-LRT terminus. That they have been forced off this idiotic inclination is no small achievement (well, for Ottawa-Gatineau, anyway).

Reading over the comments, there really is a lot of frustration at the lack of any progress on even simple short term solutions like an O-Train extension to Hull and the way things have developed, like Rapibus going ahead and now recommending LRT in the same corridor (years after an interprovincial strategy was supposed to have been started).

In that vein, I think we also now have a sample of Uhuniau's handwriting:






I don't think there's a lot of choice but to have some kind of loop. Ottawans have to get to points all along the north shore between Chaudière Falls and the Alexandra Bridge (though I think the M-C Bridge should be used) while people from all over Gatineau have to be able to do the same and get into Ottawa. Funnelling everyone who is headed into downtown Ottawa from Gatineau across the river on the west side of downtown will severely overload downtown capacity from the west (which is already constrained by the stupidity of bringing people from the south up the O-Train corridor rather than the Southeast Transitway). An O-Train extension can serve the needs of most Ottawans going to jobs in Hull, but it can't realistically serve the needs of most Gatineauois going to places in Ottawa (which should not be taken as a reason not to do it, just that we can't put an end to STO buses with it alone).


In the governance section, there were a few interesting comments on creating a single transit commission. It was particularly interesting that a number of these comments were in French, which at least suggests that the writers were from Gatineau. It's long been suspected that people on the Quebec side would oppose a combined transit commission, but the results are suggesting otherwise.



As an aside and having read what people wrote on these comment sheets, a few pieces of advice to anyone filling out one of these god-forsaken comment sheets: (1) READ the entire thing before marking anything. That way, if you've got something to say, you can pick the most appropriate place ahead of time to do it. (2) THINK before writing. Don't slap down the first thing that comes to mind. Think about what you're trying to express. Think about how to phrase it. (3) PRINT - and I mean print, not write - legibly. Stay between the lines. If you can sit down to write, do so.

If your writing is more than a little difficult to read, it will be ignored, especially in the scanned/copied versions. If it is ranty or incoherent, it will also be ignored. That's what I started doing, and I probably have more interest in seeing what people have to say than did the consultants.

In many respects, I think you're better off with online submissions since it can be done at your leisure, allowing you to better develop and express your thoughts. Handwriting issues are avoided, and space is less likely to be a constraint.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 12:02 PM
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unconfirmed sighting of interprovincial transit/transportation planning:
Quote:
Survey to track movement in the National Capital Region


BY NECO COCKBURN, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN SEPTEMBER 12, 2011


OTTAWA — Officials from Ottawa and Quebec have launched a travel survey of people living in the National Capital Region that will be used to collect information about trip patterns and to plan and improve infrastructure.

The “origin-destination” survey is the fourth of its kind for the region – the most recent was done in 2005 – and is to collect information about where people are going and how they’re getting there.

The information is to be used to improve infrastructure and to inform transportation planning, such as a review of the City of Ottawa’s transportation master plan that is scheduled to start next year.

More that 25,000 homes are to be contacted at random by phone between Sept. 19 and Nov. 25. Residents will be asked to participate in a confidential 10-minute interview regarding trips made the previous day by each household member over the age of five.

Information will be collected about walking, cycling, driving, rollerblading, “as long as the trip has an origin, a destination and a purpose,” according to a city description of the project. (Information about exercise or a walk around the block wouldn’t be considered relevant.)

Some statistical information will also be collected about age, gender, employment status and number of vehicles available to the household.

On Monday, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson, Gatineau Mayor Marc Bureau and Québec Minister for Transport Norman MacMillan, urged people to participate in the “important survey.”

Residents chosen to participate are to receive a brochure by mail before getting a call. Interviewers will call between 4:30 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. Tuesday to Friday, and on Saturday between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. Results of the survey are expected to be available by next summer.

The cities of Ottawa and Gatineau, along both of their public transit organizations and provincial transportation ministries are sharing the $1-million cost of the survey on a per-capita basis.

Provincial funding covers most of the cost, with Ontario paying $468,000 and Quebec providing $180,000. The City of Ottawa is to pay $252,000, while the City of Gatineau and Société de transport de l’Outaouais are to pay $60,000.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Survey+...#ixzz1Xpi7TcAy
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 1:09 PM
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study, study, study, yet another study. Another reason to spend money and actually do nothing that actually benefits the public.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 4:43 PM
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Pool all the money it cost to do 50 years of studies that all came to the same conclusion and you'd have money for a bridge by now.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 9:39 PM
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Pool all the money it cost to do 50 years of studies that all came to the same conclusion and you'd have money for a bridge by now.
A bridge to Neptune.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 9:43 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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A bridge to Neptune.
Not quite, but certainly LRT to the outer moons of Jupiter.
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2011, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by S-Man View Post
Pool all the money it cost to do 50 years of studies that all came to the same conclusion and you'd have money for a bridge by now.
This is not one of "those" studies. Origin-Destination surveys form the basis of all transportation modeling work in the NCR. Any time a developer completes a transportation impact study, the data comes from the models calibrated from these surveys. Transit ridership forecasts? Same thing.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Apparently it's coming today, heard on my radio.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 2:50 PM
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Apparently it's coming today, heard on my radio.
Another report heading for the trash bin.
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 7:05 PM
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CBC Radio is saying the report will recommend merging OC Transpo and the STO:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...nsit-plan.html
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 8:05 PM
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but they're not saying that in "print" in the article you linked to. All I heard this morning was what it says there, a 'legislated role in transit planning'
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 8:38 PM
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If this article is right and the NCC proposes they act like some sort of regional transportation authority, that would be ridiculous. I would never support that; they already have too much authority and aren't doing a good job in my opinion. I would definitely support having a Metrolinx type of regional authority that focuses specifically on regional transportation, but adding this to the NCC's already bloated mandate is madness. As the saying goes, they're "a jack of all trades and a master of none."
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 9:22 PM
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The NCC already has a regional transportation mandate (their driveways, parkways and commuter expressways), adding legislated regional transportation/transit planning mandate would be a formalized extension of an existing mandate of an existing organization. As much as my issues with the NCC are legion, and as loath as I would be to give them more power and authority, I would categorically assert that extending and formalizing authorities of an existing organization will always be an easier and more effective process than creating a new organization from scratch. Especially in the near term. Especially in the Federal Government.

Filing under avoiding making the perfect the enemy of the good, an NCC-mandated metropolitan transit authority would be better than the situation we have now (with next to no planning and cooperation at the regional level), and would deliver much better results much sooner than a brand new federal entity ever could hope to (an agency which would have to be created after lengthy internal government machinations, followed by intense intergovernmental negotiations, and which would then have to draft new plans through intense consultations, we're talking a process of years, if not decades, before anything is done -- and likely a change of government and priorities derailing it completely long before fruition).

Last edited by McC; Mar 27, 2012 at 9:33 PM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 10:33 PM
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The issue I have with the NCC having a role in transit planning is that they don't have to answer to taxpayers in the region. That's fundamentally undemocratic. It's one thing to take federal dollars and add federally funded roads and parks. It's another to spend municipal dollars without being elected locally or being controlled by the city government.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 12:33 AM
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For crying out loud, people. We had another thread about what is wrong with Ottawans... well the reaction to this idea is a pretty good example of it.

For what it's worth, I seriously doubt the NCC is proposing that they be given sole responsibility for transit in the NCR. The CBC article doesn't even suggest that.

Far more likely is that some kind of "National Capital Transit Commission" (my idea for a formal name: TransCapital[e]) operating under the auspices of the NCC will be proposed in which OC Transpo and STO are rolled into it. I'll take a stab in the dark and guess that some kind of five-way board of governance (Fed/NCC, ON/MTO, QC/MTQ, Ottawa, Gatineau) would be proposed. There's just no way in this day and age that the NCC would ride roughshod over everyone else. These days, they seem to spend most of their time doing nothing much at all, so having them do something genuinely useful would be a drastic improvement.

As McC notes, the NCC already has a regional transportation mandate and frankly it's about time we had some kind of locally-based oversight into all transportation matters in the region that has the capability of looking at all those transportation matters, not just those within a narrow remit. Agencies based elsewhere, like the MTO and MTQ and VIA, don't give much thought to how their actions affect things in the NCR, while Ottawa, Gatineau and STO are pretty much guilty of the same offence. There's no guarantee this will stop even with a regional transportation commission, of course, but it certainly won't under the status quo.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 3:17 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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The issue I have with the NCC having a role in transit planning is that they don't have to answer to taxpayers in the region.
Nor in any other region.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 3:21 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
For crying out loud, people. We had another thread about what is wrong with Ottawans... well the reaction to this idea is a pretty good example of it.

For what it's worth, I seriously doubt the NCC is proposing that they be given sole responsibility for transit in the NCR. The CBC article doesn't even suggest that.
The NCC shouldn't have ANY role. They already have a good 40-year record of obstructing transit development in Ottawa, and a 50+ year record of other steps that have acted against building a transit-oriented city. Or a city, for that matter.

To hell with them.

Quote:
There's just no way in this day and age that the NCC would ride roughshod over everyone else. These days, they seem to spend most of their time doing nothing much at all, so having them do something genuinely useful would be a drastic improvement.
They are still obstructing things like planning for the western LRT extension and even modest, crappy, busways across their precious, precious, Greenbelt.

So, to hell with the NCC.

They have no place in transit. Or in anything else.

Quote:
As McC notes, the NCC already has a regional transportation mandate
And how have they exercised that "mandate"?

By bitching about buses using their precious car paths, preventing buses from using other car paths altogether, and obstructing every alternative to buses using their car paths.

To hell with the NCC.
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