Which countries have a city or cities that dominate more than here?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Actually, you never see people in Toronto arguing about why Canadian City x won't ever get international flights. I'm not even sure why that would ever come up in conversation.

But I suppose what you really mean is people in Cdn city x have conversations in which they imagine what Torontonians might be saying and that just (needlessly) boils their blood.

lol, THIS.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

It's entirely possible to do all your banking and insurance business with companies that are not headquartered in Toronto. Would that be possible for a British with a company not headquartered in London ?

Why are we even comparing Toronto to London's relative hegemony? Noone's claiming Toronto is as dominant as London (a national and former imperial capital). Toronto is more like the New York or Zurich of Canada. I think the fact that people in other cities seem to have a weird complex about it and develop far out fantasies about its sense of self speaks volumes about the insecurities of some. Don't worry, Toronto isn't going to take EVERYTHING, at least not just yet!

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Why are we even comparing Toronto to London's relative hegemony? P

Because it's a discussion forum and that is pretty much in line with the subject of this thread ?And why is it that every time someone relativises Toronto's dominance in Canada, it is automatically a sign of insecurity ? We are discussing a topic, period.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Actually, you never see people in Toronto arguing about why Canadian City x won't ever get international flights. I'm not even sure why that would ever come up in conversation.

But I suppose what you really mean is people in Cdn city x have conversations in which they imagine what Torontonians might be saying and that just (needlessly) boils their blood.

People from Toronto (and other large cities, including Montreal) do this to people from smaller cities all the time.

"Oh, you guys have (insert amenity X) here? Wow!"

Of course, some people can be overly sensitive or misinterpret.

In my youth I was once in a small Maritime town with a relative who's lived there all her life. I guess I was her relative from "Ontario".

When walking down the main street I noticed a drive-through bank window and said "hey, you guys have drive-up bank tellers!"

To which she quickly responded: "it's not as if we're in the dark ages here!"

In fact, my surprise wasn't meant to be condescending. It was because we didn't even have them (at the time) in the much larger Ontario city where I was from.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Because it's a discussion forum and that is pretty much in line with the subject of this thread ?And why is it that every time someone relativises Toronto's dominance in Canada, it is automatically a sign of insecurity ? We are discussing a topic, period.

Yeah, the topic is precisely: Which countries have a city or cities that dominate more than here? , and we're supposed to avoid mentioning London?

[WhipperSnapper]

I'm a little confused. Even in London you can do your banking with foreign banks that aren't headquartered there. Or is this more about local offices? The vast majority of foreign banks operating in Canada conduct their business through Toronto. These are usually small ops. It's really not that important where the Canadian "head office" is located. It's mostly sales staff. Even among the big 5, only two of the original banks are headquartered in Toronto.

Banking is just a stereotype anyways. There's a hell of a lot more to Toronto when it comes to industries that it dominates in Canada (no, not just media either)

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, the topic is precisely: Which countries have a city or cities that dominate more than here? , and we're supposed to avoid mentioning London?

And avoid mentioning Toronto unless it's to say that the city dominates Canada in everything. Whose insecurity does that relate to again ?

[Acajack]

I've stated several times on this thread that I think Toronto has a high degree of *economic* influence in Canada - even in Quebec that influence is actually higher than most people often think.

[kool maudit]

I had lunch on Bay Street last week with a longtime Canadian FX guy. We talked Toronto a bit because I hadn't been there in a while. He said two things that I thought were interesting, even to the point that the tension between them kind of illustrates something about Toronto and big-city Canada in general.

Thing #1: "If you can trade Bay Street, you can trade anywhere. I've worked in New York and Tokyo. The guys in this room (we were at the Keg on York and Adelaide) are as good as anyone. This is a place where the bar is set very high."

Thing #2: "What you have to remember is that we are maybe 3%, at most 4% of every FX trading day – not more. We're here, but people aren't necessarily looking here. Doesn't mean we can let up..."

This guy wasn't particularly engaged, civicly, hardly either a booster or the opposite, but I am reminded of those two statements as I read this thread.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I had lunch on Bay Street last week with a longtime Canadian FX guy. We talked Toronto a bit because I hadn't been there in a while. He said two things that I thought were interesting, even to the point that the tension between them kind of illustrates something about Toronto and big-city Canada in general.

Thing #1: "If you can trade Bay Street, you can trade anywhere. I've worked in New York and Tokyo. The guys in this room (we were at the Keg on York and Adelaide) are as good as anyone. This is a place where the bar is set very high."

Thing #2: "What you have to remember is that we are maybe 3%, at most 4% of every FX trading day – not more. We're here, but people aren't necessarily looking here. Doesn't mean we can let up..."

This guy wasn't particularly engaged, civicly, hardly either a booster or the opposite, but I am reminded of those two statements as I read this thread.

Maybe I am misreading you but my takeaway from this post is that it's a variation on the classic "Canada truly is great even if it's under the radar"...

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I had lunch on Bay Street last week with a longtime Canadian FX guy. We talked Toronto a bit because I hadn't been there in a while. He said two things that I thought were interesting, even to the point that the tension between them kind of illustrates something about Toronto and big-city Canada in general.

Thing #1: "If you can trade Bay Street, you can trade anywhere. I've worked in New York and Tokyo. The guys in this room (we were at the Keg on York and Adelaide) are as good as anyone. This is a place where the bar is set very high."

Thing #2: "What you have to remember is that we are maybe 3%, at most 4% of every FX trading day – not more. We're here, but people aren't necessarily looking here. Doesn't mean we can let up..."

This guy wasn't particularly engaged, civicly, hardly either a booster or the opposite, but I am reminded of those two statements as I read this thread.

Great post.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe I am misreading you but my takeaway from this post is that it's a variation on the classic "Canada truly is great even if it's under the radar"...

No. You got the attitude wrong (which is typical to SSP). He's wasn't being boisterous. It's a state of fact. We are a skilled nation. We are a small nation. We are an underdog

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

No. You got the attitude wrong (which is typical to SSP). He's wasn't being boisterous. It's a state of fact. We are a skilled nation. We are a small nation. We are an underdog

I think you are mistaken if you think there was any type of value judgement in my post. Though kool can clarify further about his post if he wishes.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think you are mistaken if you think there was any type of value judgement in my post. Though kool can clarify further about his post if he wishes.

It's hard not to assume that with the "Canada truly is great" reference. Greatness is not applicable to someone saying they can do the same quality job as anyone else in their field.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's hard not to assume that with the "Canada truly is great" reference. Greatness is not applicable to someone saying they can do the same quality job as anyone else in their field.

Sure.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I had lunch on Bay Street last week with a longtime Canadian FX guy. We talked Toronto a bit because I hadn't been there in a while. He said two things that I thought were interesting, even to the point that the tension between them kind of illustrates something about Toronto and big-city Canada in general.

Thing #1: "If you can trade Bay Street, you can trade anywhere. I've worked in New York and Tokyo. The guys in this room (we were at the Keg on York and Adelaide) are as good as anyone. This is a place where the bar is set very high."

Thing #2: "What you have to remember is that we are maybe 3%, at most 4% of every FX trading day – not more. We're here, but people aren't necessarily looking here. Doesn't mean we can let up..."

This guy wasn't particularly engaged, civicly, hardly either a booster or the opposite, but I am reminded of those two statements as I read this thread.

Very interesting. I have no exposure to FX trading but that mirrors my experience in Real Estate at least. Oxford & Brookfield can compete with the best of them in New York and people seemed to take notice when I was there. I think we have some of the best asset managers in North America.

The more traditional behemoths (equities & fixed income) are a different ball game completely though. Our markets just aren't driven by the same fundamentals as New York or London. Canada is pension money >>> Mutual Funds >>>>>>>> everything else. We don't have the number of high net worth individuals to drive the hedge fund industry out of its infancy here. Not to say we don't have the talented individuals to do so, their efforts and skills are just employed elsewhere.

Edit: I guess that in a way mirrors what Kool said as well. "If we wanted to, we could compete with the best across the world." We are just as good as our American counterparts, just with a more conservative approach and smaller scale.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've stated several times on this thread that I think Toronto has a high degree of *economic* influence in Canada - even in Quebec that influence is actually higher than most people often think.

To second what you're saying,

I just reviewed the last year's worth of our expense accounts (credit card statements). There were several weird items for which I needed an explanation; one turned out to be a plane ticket, another a tax software license, etc.

Each of those were 1) a business name that didn't ring a bell to me (meaning I'm not the one who made that online purchase) and 2) a transaction location that was something like ETOBICOKE ON or MISSISSAUGA ON.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Believe it or not the local CTV station in Ottawa CJOH also does this. Anyway, if they've stopped it's been very recently.

I've seen their news many times. They always came across as a combination of polished big city news and small town community television, and they struck a perfect balance. Their longtime anchor was a proud Newfoundlander who had a dedication to helping children in the local community. You'll never see another Max Keeping.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by someone123

You see things like people in Toronto arguing why Canadian city X won't ever get international flights, because they all go through Toronto, and that's how the world is and we need to get used to the Alpha City world order and cutthroat capitalists who run everything and don't care about Podunk towns. But actually city X already has a bunch of international flights...

It is similar with immigration where there was this narrative of immigrants not wanting to move to smaller cities that persisted for years after the relative decline of immigration to Canada's largest cities.

This is the sort of stuff I push back against a bit. I'm not saying Toronto isn't the most important or most "global" city in Canada. Mostly I'm saying the others are more successful and connected than a lot of people suppose, or than the strict hierarchical national urban model predicts. And a lot of people get carried away with the globalist plutocrat narrative, which is important but doesn't fully describe how the world works.

I find with some Torontonians I've met since I've lived there that there's an attitude that their city is the only one with any opportunity, that the rest of Ontario is a barren wasteland with no jobs. I had a coworker decide she wanted to move to Kitchener, and one of my other coworkers scoffed that she'll never find work there. He had nothing to say when she got a good job in K-W just a month later. Other (downtown) Torontonians I've met make comments like "there's no talent in X", sometimes even referring to suburbs like Scarborough.

I've known a lot of international students over the years and what I often found is that they had a very tough time living in smaller cities like London and Kingston. The reason is often that they've come from cities abroad that are much larger than even Toronto - like Beijing or Tehran - and they simply can't wrap their heads around a place with a university and no "cultural scene". To them, Toronto is the city that has all the amenities they're used to.

[megadude]

My original post wasn't exactly totally succinct as I had a lot of thoughts and notes about this running through my head and I wanted to jot them down before I lost my train of thought. And I didn't want to spend an hour composing it to academic standards.

Most of you got the gist of it. There's a sentiment out there that Toronto is the be all and end all, either from within TO, or from an outsider's perspective.

Or, for some, it's TO, Montreal and Vancouver. Sometimes Ottawa doesn't even register from the perspective of a non Canadian. I bet much of the US and the world couldn't tell you that Ottawa is the capital like they couldn't tell you Canberra is the capital of Australia and Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland.

Basically, it's a flawed perspective, especially when comparing it to London's place in England. Or if you look at Paris, Tokyo, Vienna, Stockholm, Copenhagen, and some other cities already mentioned.

If a tourist won a trip to a country but was only allowed to visit one city or place, virtually all of them are going to pick that main city. In Canada, there are quite a few options. In the US there are even more.