Street people costing Winnipeg millions

[Only The Lonely..]

I thought this was an interesting article. Any thoughts on it?

Originally Posted by CJOB 680

Street people costing city millions
FEB 01 2008 10:10 PM

38 street people are costing Winnipeg's police and paramedics millions of dollars a year.

According to a police presentation to the city's protection and community services committee, the group was responsible for 1,066 calls for emergency services between January 15, 2006 to May 15, 2007.

One person alone used as much as $250,000 worth of emergency services.
The street people are transported to Winnipeg hospitals and an inner-city drunk tank.

Committee chair Councillor Gord Steeves says police and paramedic services are not set up to be a social service agency.

He suggests chronic offenders be involuntarily put into long-term, supervised care to help them recover.

[drew]

^ can't be much different than the costs experienced by cities all over Canada...

[Mayor Quimby]

Wouldn't it cost less to ensure proper housing, education, etc. for everyone???

[Only The Lonely..]

Personally, I think these people should be thrown in the clink. Gord Steeves has a good idea.

[Spocket]

Hmmmm... what to do about this ?
Well, if we try to force them to do anything then we'll get the usual fanatical shrieks about how Canada is turning into a police state so that's probably out. If we try to deny them any services then we'll get the other side calling us a bunch of cold-hearted and uncaring bigots. All the usual crap. The answer seems to lie in doing something about these two groups first. Get them to come up with a solution and let THEM deal with these pariahs.

In the meantime I guess we'll just have to bite the bullet and keep on shelling out our hard-earned money for people who simply like to waste it. Too bad personal responsibility is so passe otherwise we'd have a common-sense solution. Want to opt out of society ? No problem. Contribute nothing, get nothing. That seems fair to me.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Hmmmm... what to do about this ?
Well, if we try to force them to do anything then we'll get the usual fanatical shrieks about how Canada is turning into a police state so that's probably out. If we try to deny them any services then we'll get the other side calling us a bunch of cold-hearted and uncaring bigots. All the usual crap. The answer seems to lie in doing something about these two groups first. Get them to come up with a solution and let THEM deal with these pariahs.

In the meantime I guess we'll just have to bite the bullet and keep on shelling out our hard-earned money for people who simply like to waste it. Too bad personal responsibility is so passe otherwise we'd have a common-sense solution. Want to opt out of society ? No problem. Contribute nothing, get nothing. That seems fair to me.

You act as if these people actually had a choice in the matter. The majority of people are one mistake, missed cheque or bad choice from being in the same position. If one has no support system when they fall down then they have nobody to help them up.

Many of us make these life errors but have family and friends that will ALWAYS help us out. What if we didn't?

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

You act as if these people actually had a choice in the matter. The majority of people are one mistake, missed cheque or bad choice from being in the same position. If one has no support system when they fall down then they have nobody to help them up.

Many of us make these life errors but have family and friends that will ALWAYS help us out. What if we didn't?

But the real problem is that if I prank call the police or fire department I would be severly fined for my actions.

However, there seems to be little or no consequence for many of these vagrants.

I know if I needed the assistance of an emergency crew I'd be livid if my safety was put in risk because of some rubbies 39th call to 911 this year.

If these folks can't pay the fines i'd be subjected to let them stay in detox and be forced to deal with their issues.

[Only The Lonely..]

Handful of homeless run up hefty city tab

By CHRIS KITCHING | Winnipeg Sun


Provincial and city authorities are spending millions of dollars on 38 chronic street people who are repeatedly transported to and lodged at Winnipeg hospitals and an inner-city drunk tank.

The 38 were responsible for 1,066 calls for service between January 2006 and May 2007.

One man was taken to hospital 186 times in a 17-month period and cost the system about $250,000 in manpower and equipment expenses, a city official said yesterday.

The figures were a surprise to city hall's protection and community services committee, which heard a presentation from two Winnipeg police officers yesterday. The committee wants to identify ways to curb costs and prevent resources from being tied up.

"Our police and paramedic services are not set up to be a social service agency," said committee chair Coun. Gord Steeves. "It's way too expensive and you're never going to see people heal themselves if healing is, in fact, possible."

He suggests chronic offenders be involuntarily put into long-term, supervised care.

Most chronic offenders are in a state of constant intoxication due to drinking or sniffing, and return to hospital or the Main Street Project detox centre within hours of their last visit to sober up, said Const. Jen Zeglen, a co-ordinator of Project Breakaway, which identifies street people and tries to help them.

Once they're back on the street, the cycle resumes. They're often found passed out in bus shelters or on the street. Some are picked up by police or paramedics up to three times a day for public intoxication, aggressive behaviour or petty crimes.

Partners of Project Breakaway -- including police, Manitoba Justice and social agencies -- hit roadblocks when they try to direct clients to programs.

A person can go to a treatment or housing facility only if he or she consents or is ordered by the courts following an arrest or conviction.

There is no provincial law to force a person to attend. Most chronic offenders cannot be detained under the Mental Health Act, Zeglen said.

"From our perspective, financially, it is really hurting our service," Steeves said.

CARING COSTS

Project Breakaway facts and figures:

- Thirty-eight chronic offenders were responsible for 1,066 calls for service -- 570 calls under the Intoxicated Persons Detention Act, 447 disturbances or medical calls, and 49 arrests

- Each IPDA call costs Winnipeg police $150/hr for every two-officer unit

- One man, considered the worst offender, went to hospital 186 times with those visits totalling $119,000, not including police manpower costs or the Main Street Project's lodging fee of $35

[Only The Lonely..]

Winnipeg Sun poll of the day:

Should chronic street offenders be put into long-term care to curb city costs?

Yes 91%
No 9%


Total Votes for this Question: 878

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

But the real problem is that if I prank call the police or fire department I would be severly fined for my actions.

However, there seems to be little or no consequence for many of these vagrants.

I know if I needed the assistance of an emergency crew I'd be livid if my safety was put in risk because of some rubbies 39th call to 911 this year.

If these folks can't pay the fines i'd be subjected to let them stay in detox and be forced to deal with their issues.

Right because a beat up rubbie doesn't deserve any medical services.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Winnipeg Sun poll of the day:

Should chronic street offenders be put into long-term care to curb city costs?

Yes 91%
No 9%


Total Votes for this Question: 878

Do you think that the 91% know that it would cost less to build good social housing, etc then it does for them to live on the streets?

Shouldn't the real question be, why are people living on the street?

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

Do you think that the 91% know that it would cost less to build good social housing, etc then it does for them to live on the streets?

Shouldn't the real question be, why are people living on the street?

They are living on the street because many of them have serious substance abuse issues. The only solution to it is to force these people into treatment.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

Right because a beat up rubbie doesn't deserve any medical services.

He doesn't deserve medical services on his own terms, when he's not the one paying for them. In other words, if allowing him to wander around downtown is going to cause him to get beat up repeatedly, or to beat others up repeatedly, costing the medical system a huge amount of time and money (diverted from the rest of us) then maybe at that point we say that the right "medical service" for him is some sort of long-term lock-up in a psychiatric institution or prison hospital.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

They are living on the street because many of them have serious substance abuse issues. The only solution to it is to force these people into treatment.

Your barely scratching the surface and even substance abusers shouldn't be on the street in a country as rich as ours.

These people need much more then addiction treatment, they need full on counseling and training on life skills. There are many well off people with addiction issues, some well known, but they never end up on the street. Why do you think?

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Andy6

He doesn't deserve medical services on his own terms, when he's not the one paying for them. In other words, if allowing him to wander around downtown is going to cause him to get beat up repeatedly, or to beat others up repeatedly, costing the medical system a huge amount of time and money (diverted from the rest of us) then maybe at that point we say that the right "medical service" for him is some sort of long-term lock-up in a psychiatric institution or prison hospital.

A very enlightened response with money as the central issue. We have a universal healthcare system. People are not treated by how much they contribute, thankfully.

But what about smokers, tobacco taxes are double the amount spent on tobacco related illnesses. Should smokers get to jump the line because they contribute more?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

Do you think that the 91% know that it would cost less to build good social housing, etc then it does for them to live on the streets?

Isn't that being a little naive, though? Many of these people wouldn't live in "good social housing" even if it existed. Nor would it remain "good social housing" for long if they did. They're deranged, drug-addled, drunk. They aren't "people like us" who bounced a cheque once in their lives. They need institutional care, whether the institution is some sort of hospital or a jail.

[vid]

The problem is likely worse in Ontario. While Harris was in power he kicked tonnes of people with mental disabilities out of provincial institutions and onto the streets. Many homeless people in Thunder Bay that I see are suffering from mental conditions.

Ontario doesn't believe in instutionalizing people anymore. We let them "live independent lives" and only make them get help "when they feel they need it". They really need somewhere to go. They can't stay on the street and they certainly can't stay in hospitals. Iirc, our hospital's criminally insane unit only holds about two dozen. Thunder Bay must have at least 200 homeless.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Andy6

They aren't "people like us" ...

Well that sums up your outlook very nicely. As for me, people are people and we all make human mistakes, but one's life should not be imperiled by these mistakes. We as a society must become those without any support systems, support system.

This is all preventable and at less cost then not preventing it. However as long as people take on a me attitude, we will never solve it.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

A very enlightened response with money as the central issue. We have a universal healthcare system. People are not treated by how much they contribute, thankfully.

If that's true it should change. Some people are taking advantage of the rest of us, and there should be a penalty for making such incredibly bad life choices. It shouldn't be not getting treatment. It should be to be taken forcibly out of the self-destructive way of life that the person is in so he won't require so much treatment. It's a win-win. The only losers are the liberals who wince at the idea of treating anyone as less than a perfectly rational autonomous human being, even when they're clearly not and even where treating them that way is obviously ruinous to their lives.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Andy6

If that's true it should change. Some people are taking advantage of the rest of us , and there should be a penalty for making such incredibly bad life choices. It shouldn't be not getting treatment. It should be to be taken forcibly out of the self-destructive way of life that the person is in so he won't require so much treatment. It's a win-win. The only losers are the liberals who wince at the idea of treating anyone as less than a perfectly rational autonomous human being, even when they're clearly not and even where treating them that way is obviously ruinous to their lives.

Yes and these people are the CEO's of Bell, Telus, Wal-Mart, etc.
Why pick on those that really have nothing? Does it make you feel superior?

And no one should have their medical treatments priority based on anything but medical necessity.