Metro Vancouver & Interregional Passenger Ferry Service Discussion

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by logan5

HarbourLynx lasted 3 years. Not a huge run, but a 3 year run tells me that there is a viable business model.

since when is a "3 year run" telling that a business model is viable? that is the opposite. it means it failed after 3 years. companies that are viable, that are making $$$ or are projected to make $$$ don't go out of business.

[scottN]

I will likely use this service to visit relatives that live in Nanaimo. The waterfront location is convenient for anyone taking transit to the ferry, whether they are coming from within the City of Vancouver, Surrey or Coquitlam. The alternative is driving to Horseshoe Bay or Tsawassen and paying $$$ for parking. That's not cheap either.

[GeeCee]

We're really doing this again, huh?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logan5

...like I said before, HarbourLynx lasted for 3 years, so there is at least a strong potential for success.

The business world is littered with the corpses of companies who tried to make a go of it and failed, even after well over 3 years of effort. Some quite large ones, too. And there are plenty still in business who have yet to make a cent in profit. Twitter is an obvious example, but there are plenty more to choose from.

You can talk investors into anything if you're smooth enough.

[martinishaker]

I live in Nanaimo now after being in Vancouver for 40 years. There are a lot of us transplants here. North Nanaimo is as good as it gets for nice houses and ocean view. 1/2 the price of North Van and no traffic. Not to mention nice people.

I take the plane all the time and would switch to the new ferry for most trips over. I would just have a coffee, do some work on my laptop and boom I am in Vancouver. I would do a lot more day trips to hit some Breweries or see my parents.

The BC ferry is a long time and only gets me half way to my destination. 100s upon 100s of people will swap BC ferries for this new faster option. Even people from Duncan, who use Duke point would switch.

My friends will probably come visit more, and who knows some might finally move over here with this better option to and from….

[svlt]

I don't hold out hope but all I can say is I wish this endeavor lasting success. We do need better connectivity to the island and even if it doesn't make business sense it's an option I would like to have in my back pocket as a traveler in between.

[martinishaker]

Originally Posted by logan5

There are 16 sailing per day between Nanaimo and Metro Vancouver, on ships that have a capacity of 1200 to 1600 passengers. There are a lot of people travelling back and forth between Nanaimo and Vancouver. That's a lot of potential customers who will have an alternative that is much faster, and probly not that much more expensive.

Don’t forget all the Duke point ferries as well. From Duncan to Campbell River, there are over 300,000 people who would us the ferry to go to Vancouver.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by logan5

I would suggest a big reason why people take their vehicles across is because they don't want to take a bus from Horseshoe Bay into downtown. The terminus for the fast ferry is walking distance to Waterfront Station, so there is a good network effect in play here. If you are going to YVR for example, it makes no sense to drive when it would be much faster to take a fast ferry and then walk 10 minutes to the Canada Line.

Originally Posted by scottN

I will likely use this service to visit relatives that live in Nanaimo. The waterfront location is convenient for anyone taking transit to the ferry, whether they are coming from within the City of Vancouver, Surrey or Coquitlam. The alternative is driving to Horseshoe Bay or Tsawassen and paying $$$ for parking. That's not cheap either.

The Horseshoe Bay Express bus #257 is really fast and very frequent and picks up at VCC Dunsmuir, 701 West Georgia @ Granville and Royal Centre @ Burrard and drops off at those streets.

I think it all depends on what you have planned for the Island side.
If you have family that can pick you up at the BC Ferry terminal - that's great.
If you plan on driving up to Comox, Long Beach or Denman Island, etc., then you need the car.
I don't really know anyone who wants to go to downtown Nanaimo as their final destination, other than for the Dragon Boat Festival.

[scottN]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The Horseshoe Bay Express bus #257 is really fast and very frequent and picks up at VCC Dunsmuir, 701 West Georgia @ Granville and Royal Centre @ Burrard and drops off at those streets.

257 travel time is schedule for 35 minutes with a frequency of every 20 minutes. So count on an average time of 45 minutes. The ferry itself is 30 minutes faster, so the total time advantage is 1:15 vs taking transit to horseshoe bay then BC ferries from there. ~70 minutes vs ~145 minutes.

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think it all depends on what you have planned for the Island side.
If you have family that can pick you up at the BC Ferry terminal - that's great.
If you plan on driving up to Comox, Long Beach or Denman Island, etc., then you need the car.
I don't really know anyone who wants to go to downtown Nanaimo as their final destination, other than for the Dragon Boat Festival.

Agreed it all depends on where you are ultimately going, and when. With 2 vessels how many trips are they going to run every day? If the schedule doesn't work for me, then I'll be on BC ferries instead

[twoNeurons]

A lot of people in Vancouver are eschewing car ownership. If this ferry company made a deal with a car share org I think that would be a smart move.

Perhaps favorable rates for those taking the ferry, or your first 30 minutes paid for by the ferry company.

Looks like modo has cars in Nanaimo.

EVO is in Victoria. Perhaps they could add a zone at the Nanaimo downtown terminal.

That way you could take the point to point ferry and perhaps for a "car-share" add-on of $5–10 get to your destination in Victoria (EVO) or join modo and get favorable rates if your location is in Nanaimo.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

EVO is in Victoria. Perhaps they could add a zone at the Nanaimo downtown terminal.

The EVO return cars that they've set up in Surrey would make a lot of sense in Nanaimo.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by martinishaker

Don’t forget all the Duke point ferries as well. From Duncan to Campbell River, there are over 300,000 people who would us the ferry to go to Vancouver.

Remember Duke Point was built to service the trucking industry (or so were we told at the time) and it's a helluva long way from anywhere - no car rentals or busses service the terminal it's all about drive, drive, drive.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

Remember Duke Point was built to service the trucking industry (or so were we told at the time) and it's a helluva long way from anywhere - no car rentals or busses service the terminal it's all about drive, drive, drive.

Yeah, when it was opened, I think Duke Point was only served by the Queen of Alberni, which was a truck ferry at the time.
Later on (maybe before Duke Point opened), an upper car deck was added to that ferry (still single level below).
As a result, it has a significantly smaller passenger lounge than other ferries of its era.

Original:

https://ferriesbc.proboards.com/thre...tos-discussion

Lifted and enclosed:

https://ferriesbc.proboards.com/thre...tos-discussion

[madog222]

Proposed Bowen/Gibsons/Vancouver passenger ferry ramps up planning

The first sailing is still several years away, but work is well underway on a future passenger ferry between Bowen Island and the mainland.

Greenline Ferries and its CEO Callum Campbell announced last month their intention to establish the service on routes from Vancouver to Bowen, and also Gibsons on the Sunshine Coast. Campbell was on Bowen last week to provide local council with more information on the project.

...
Norway’s MS Medstraum is the case study for this type of ship, a battery powered ferry that runs between the cities of Stavanger and Hommersåk. The boat can fit 150 passengers and 20 bicycles. Campbell went to see the transport in action earlier this year, and spoke to its quiet ride and lack of vibration.

Campbell says the goals of providing a passenger-only option are to present a faster trip – the Bowen to downtown voyage would take about 45 minutes – and to ultimately keep more vehicles off the road. He adds Greenline Ferries would be “resilient to labour shortages and energy swings,” given their battery powered status and smaller crew of about four. It takes around 10 to 12 people to operate the Queen of Capilano, in comparison.

...

Campbell says this means he wants the downtown terminal in immediate proximity to either the Canada or Expo train lines to allow for ease of access to and from the ferry. A location for the Bowen terminal hasn’t been picked yet, though proposed locations at the moment include Snug Cove or Seymour Bay.

...

The current timeline is to have the pair of ships ordered by the end of next year, construction of them (including specifics to meet the environmental requirements of Salish Sea weather) in 2024, and the beginning of passenger runs in 2025.



Image from Greenline Ferries

From North Shore News https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/pr...anning-6271727

[Migrant_Coconut]

Nanaimo-Vancouver's already got a mediocre business case as it is... but Bowen Island and the Sunshine Coast? And why not just have both vessels do a Gibsons-Vancouver run with Snug Cove as the layover?

[chowhou]

I imagine a downtown terminal would require some integration with the Seabus terminal. There's not a lot of room there, but it would be nice to have our own little Circular Quay or Central Piers.

Ultimately though this looks like another pie-in-the-sky ferry project. I'm all for energy independence and operational efficiency, but I can't imagine what sort of ridership+fare calculus needs to happen to make this work.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Nanaimo-Vancouver's already got a mediocre business case as it is... but Bowen Island and the Sunshine Coast? And why not just have both vessels do a Gibsons-Vancouver run with Snug Cove as the layover?

That's going to significantly increase the Vancouver-Gibsons travel time and cause unreliable departure times from Snug Cove.

Their plan for 45min to Snug Cove and 75min to Gibsons beats a best case scenario using BC ferries. That's the only way these passenger ferries will be successful.

[logan5]

A 45 minute ride from Bowen Island to DT Vancouver is the equivalent of a Skytrain ride from Surrey. That's a large undeveloped land mass very close to the city centre.

Use some powerful explosives to flatten the mountains on Bowen Island to make it even more developable, then build a bridge for a 20 minute commute. City building at its finest.

[Migrant_Coconut]

AFAIK part of the draw is the lack of development - turn it into another West Van and tourism falls off a cliff, possibly enough to offset any gain from new residents.

Originally Posted by madog222

That's going to significantly increase the Vancouver-Gibsons travel time and cause unreliable departure times from Snug Cove.

Their plan for 45min to Snug Cove and 75min to Gibsons beats a best case scenario using BC ferries. That's the only way these passenger ferries will be successful.

Just seems a little inefficient - they need to sail past Snug Cove to get to Langdale or Gibsons anyway.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I imagine a downtown terminal would require some integration with the Seabus terminal.

Past attempts at running a Vancouver-Nanaimo or Vancouver-Victoria passenger service have used the west side of the Seabus terminal (the side closest to Canada Place) as a docking and boarding area.