YVR And Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[gdking]

Does anyone know if and when the parking situation at YVR will be improved? Right now there is an unfinished and unopened parkade sitting east of the original parkade. Additional parking is available at Templeton station, but this is not really convenient for picking up/dropping off passengers, and always seems full anyway.

Spaces in the original parkade are posted on YVR's website, but there are precious few spaces available at any time. YVR's website also states that the lower level of the parkade is for a max of 4 hours - ideal for pick up and drop off - but unless this is physically monitored by YVR staff, there is no difference in paying for and using any level of the parkade.

[nname]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Apparently this route is seasonal winter only. What a terrible choice by AC. DXB is not a seasonal tourist route, it's the largest international connection airport on earth...

I feel like AC probably thought about having it year-round, to have it rotate with SIN during summer with 3x weekly flights. But then they probably decided to put the additional frequency toward additional HKG flights since the route was performing much better (based on the round-trip price). It was only then AC explicitly indicate the DXB route is seasonal.

There is another free slot out of YVR for S24 - the other 3x weekly on the days when PVG not operating. But that time slot is too short and wouldn't work well with DXB. AC recently decide to put the slot toward KIX from May to mid-June. From mid-June onward is still undecided. It can either be additional frequency for KIX/DUB, or increase PVG to daily if they are allowed to, a new 3x weekly route, or do a big shuffle and move the slot over to YYZ/YUL (like last year with adding YUL-AMS). Either way, AC will have to decide on that by probably next Feb at the latest.

[LeftCoaster]

I didn't come here for rational explanations, I came here to vent!

All kidding aside thanks for the explanation, that makes sense, but to me a DXB route is really only as good as its reliability. This isn't a bottom feeder tourism route like ATH or BCN, this should be a premier connection route competing with the likes of HKG and LHR... it's going to have a tough time to succeed if AC doesn't take it seriously.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Apparently this route is seasonal winter only. What a terrible choice by AC. DXB is not a seasonal tourist route, it's the largest international connection airport on earth...

Excuse my contradicting you, but I think that title new belongs to Istanbul Airport. TK has the most foreign (outside Turkey) destinations of any airline, inc BA, LH, EK, KLM, AA, you name it.
I guess its market out of Istanbul nevertheless covers a different range of destinations in SE Asia that EK serves out of DXB, but Turkish has gone all out to be the furthest reaching and densest serving airline.

[zahav]

Originally Posted by zahav

Not exactly YVR related, but a bunch of articles have come out about Delta's SEA hub, and they don't paint a nice picture. Here's one, but do a Google News search for "Delta Airlines Seattle" and lots will come up:

Delta’s Poorly Performing Seattle Hub

Some main points:
When you crunch the numbers with that methodology, the single least profitable hub of any major US airline is Delta’s hub in Seattle. Only 5% of the carrier’s routes out of the airport aren’t in the bottom 40% of the carrier’s network in terms of revenue per available seat mile.

Apparently the hub has been performing very poorly for years now, but it seems the situation is getting even worse. A year ago, 7% of routes weren’t in the bottom 40% of Delta’s routes, while now that number is down to just 5%.

Commentators/insiders saying Delta hasn't been able to sway Alaska pax away, or at least not to the degree they thought they could when they first established the SEA hub. Their international offering has been very up and down, and not really growing (that isn't all SEA's fault, Delta was building SEA for Asian flights, and Covid decimated that). Opinions from the various articles seem to suggest Delta will keep the hub, but just not nurture it with new routes, and see how long they will hold on. After American and Alaska teamed up, American dipped its toes into offering international from SEA, fed by Alaska. But so far they've only launched LHR, which is seasonal. They had planned to serve Bengaluru (so random, I know, even with the tech sector factored in). But it was announced just before Covid emerged, and so the service never actually started. They kept pushing back the start date and then in 2022 removed it altogether from all future schedules. That's where it's still at today. Apparently part of the agreement between Alaska and AA was that AA would launch international routes from SEA, but so far it's only generated a seasonal LHR service. If American did pursue a respectable international expansion, Delta would likely close their hub. It would make no sense for those two major airlines to compete on international routes from SEA, not nearly enough demand. And AA would get lots of Alaska feed, so it would make more sense than DL. But we shall see!

Even though not directly to do with YVR, staying updated on the situation at competing airports is important. Both SEA and YVR have had some good scores in terms of international airlines adding service over the last couple of years. But if DL's situation is as bad as these industry analysts are saying, it is a precarious situation for SEA's aspirations

Aeroroutes just posted this:

AMERICAN AIRLINES REMOVES SEATTLE – LONDON NS24 SCHEDULE
1 min
NS24Oneworld
Published at 1700GMT 20NOV23

American Airlines during the weekend of 18NOV23’s schedule update removed Seattle – London Heathrow schedule for Northern summer 2024 season, as the oneWorld member discontinues service on this route. Last flight on this route was scheduled on 28OCT23, Seattle departure.

Following schedule is previously filed from 31MAR24. Reservation is no longer available.

AA156 SEA2235 – 1605+1LHR 772 D
AA155 LHR1410 – 1610SEA 772 D

So the one international route AA had from SEA just got removed, effectively ending their part of whatever agreement they had with AS about international service. But AA is a big fish, much bigger than AS, and they essentially brought AS into Oneworld. So AS probably wasn't in a position to fight the decision at all, and likely didn't care that much since historically they've always been just a domestic (plus Mexico and some Canada) airline, and not relying on international, so this doesn't change much for them. And the AA route to LHR had a lot of competition from DL, Virgin, BA. But AA pulling it altogether seems to fit with the reports of other airlines like DL having issues with performance at SEA.

I too was a bit disappointed to not get EK, as they probably would have done year-round. I can't remember if they were maxed out on the bilateral when they added YUL, I think AC still had unused allotments but EK was at their limit. But it should certianly be year-round, it's not like Mazatlan or something. Hopefully something will pan out.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by zahav

Aeroroutes just posted this:

AMERICAN AIRLINES REMOVES SEATTLE – LONDON NS24 SCHEDULE
1 min
NS24Oneworld
Published at 1700GMT 20NOV23

American Airlines during the weekend of 18NOV23’s schedule update removed Seattle – London Heathrow schedule for Northern summer 2024 season, as the oneWorld member discontinues service on this route. Last flight on this route was scheduled on 28OCT23, Seattle departure.

Following schedule is previously filed from 31MAR24. Reservation is no longer available.

AA156 SEA2235 – 1605+1LHR 772 D
AA155 LHR1410 – 1610SEA 772 D

So the one international route AA had from SEA just got removed, effectively ending their part of whatever agreement they had with AS about international service. But AA is a big fish, much bigger than AS, and they essentially brought AS into Oneworld. So AS probably wasn't in a position to fight the decision at all, and likely didn't care that much since historically they've always been just a domestic (plus Mexico and some Canada) airline, and not relying on international, so this doesn't change much for them. And the AA route to LHR had a lot of competition from DL, Virgin, BA. But AA pulling it altogether seems to fit with the reports of other airlines like DL having issues with performance at SEA.

I too was a bit disappointed to not get EK, as they probably would have done year-round. I can't remember if they were maxed out on the bilateral when they added YUL, I think AC still had unused allotments but EK was at their limit. But it should certianly be year-round, it's not like Mazatlan or something. Hopefully something will pan out.

Does BA fly SEA-LHR?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Does BA fly SEA-LHR?

Yup, 10 weekly.

[nname]

Speaking of London... BA will be increasing YVR-LGW in S24, which will operate 6x weekly starting late April, increasing to daily from Mid May to end of Sept.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Does BA fly SEA-LHR?

Originally Posted by madog222

Yup, 10 weekly.

How does YVR-LHR compare, regarding BA only, and not counting LGW?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Apparently this route is seasonal winter only. What a terrible choice by AC. DXB is not a seasonal tourist route, it's the largest international connection airport on earth...

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

This isn't a bottom feeder tourism route like ATH or BCN, this should be a premier connection route competing with the likes of HKG and LHR... it's going to have a tough time to succeed if AC doesn't take it seriously.

You're right in that it's rare to see an airline operate a seasonal route to DXB. EK doesn't have any seasonal destinations. Whatever they launch, it's year round. However, you can't compare AC and EK.

For AC, winter seasonal makes sense, especially as a start, for two reasons.

1. Have you been to Dubai in the summer? I have. It's freakin' hot ! I mean, 40-45C+ hot ! Winter is when you want to go. Much more pleasant temperatures.

2. The main connecting market AC is going after with this flight is to India, and that market's busiest season is winter as well.

It's also worth noting that AC is not the only winter seasonal carrier to DXB. LO from WAW, AY from HEL and VS from LHR all operate winter only as well. There are others as well.

So even though we were all surprised that this route is not year round, if you dig deeper, there is a reason for it. I think AC knows very well what it is doing, and if the route succeeds, it might very well get extended to year round. Until then, it probably feels there is more money to be made elsewhere.

Also, let's not forget this is one looonngg flight. Around 7,000nm with the detour around Russia. That's as long as YYZ-DEL. That eats into your yields, bigtime. AC is being prudent here, which is a smart move. Better to launch DXB as a seasonal route, and then maybe go year round if it meets or exceeds your expectations, vs launching year round and then realizing it was the wrong move.

As for your ATH/BCN comments, I can pretty much guarantee you the yields to the Mediterranean right now are better than any flight to DXB.

There is a reason why AC is running YUL-BCN year round, and YYZ/YUL-ATH until Nov 25/26 !

Originally Posted by nname

There is another free slot out of YVR for S24 - the other 3x weekly on the days when PVG not operating. But that time slot is too short and wouldn't work well with DXB. AC recently decide to put the slot toward KIX from May to mid-June. From mid-June onward is still undecided. It can either be additional frequency for KIX/DUB, or increase PVG to daily if they are allowed to, a new 3x weekly route, or do a big shuffle and move the slot over to YYZ/YUL (like last year with adding YUL-AMS). Either way, AC will have to decide on that by probably next Feb at the latest.

Just as I was saying above, again, this is a smart strategy by AC. Keeping its options open for a couple of more months to see what happens with China.

Originally Posted by zahav

And the AA route to LHR had a lot of competition from DL, Virgin, BA.

AA and BA don't compete on TATL flights. They have a JV. I wouldn't be surprised to see BA increase capacity to SEA because of AA's retreat.

Originally Posted by zahav

I too was a bit disappointed to not get EK, as they probably would have done year-round. I can't remember if they were maxed out on the bilateral when they added YUL,

Yes, U.A.E carriers are now maxed out on the bilateral. The limit is 21x weekly per country.

EY flies daily to YYZ, and EK daily to both YYZ and YUL.

Canadian carriers still have plenty of room left to add flights, as AC is only 11x weekly to Dubai in peak winter, and no other Canadian carrier flies to DXB.

[nname]

From initial W24 schedule, looks like AF is planning to increase YVR-CDG to daily for the winter season, starting from Nov 2024.

Also, looks like AC is adding 3rd flights on selected days for YVR-HKG (for instance, Jan 5 2024 will now have 3 flights to HKG). The flight number will be AC29/30, previously used for YVR-PEK.

[owenf]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

How does YVR-LHR compare, regarding BA only, and not counting LGW?

YVR-LHR is 7x weekly on A35K both winter/summer. And LGW is being increased on 772 to 7x weekly as well in S24, starting in April 2024 instead of May 2024.

[osirisboy]

Yvr just added September and October updates

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...passengers.pdf

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Yvr just added September and October updates

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...passengers.pdf

Record October for YVR, beat 2016 overall and in domestic and transborder!

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Record October for YVR, beat 2016 overall and in domestic and transborder!

Yeah, October is first month that they have beat pre pandemic highs.

[jollyburger]

New snow clearing equipment at YVR (left is the new one)



https://www.nsnews.com/highlights/yv...stment-7928235

[SpongeG]

They had the YVR woman, I think CEO or President? on the radio this morning as they are having a rollout of some new snowy weather information such as showing off the new equipment, one of the things she said that I had not heard anywhere in any media was the planes stuck on the runway with passengers stranded inside were because there were no gates to use and that its the airline companies responsibility to move the aircraft and arrange towing etc. So they have created some kind of new rules at the airport that airlines have to get aircraft moved from a gate within I think it was 30 minutes of being asked. That should help avoid the problems of last year.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

New snow clearing equipment at YVR (left is the new one)

This reminds me of the "conga line" in the 1970 movie "Airport"...

[casper]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

They had the YVR woman, I think CEO or President? on the radio this morning as they are having a rollout of some new snowy weather information such as showing off the new equipment, one of the things she said that I had not heard anywhere in any media was the planes stuck on the runway with passengers stranded inside were because there were no gates to use and that its the airline companies responsibility to move the aircraft and arrange towing etc. So they have created some kind of new rules at the airport that airlines have to get aircraft moved from a gate within I think it was 30 minutes of being asked. That should help avoid the problems of last year.

There was some coverage of that in the media. Going from memory, but I believe part of the story was there was no place to put the aircraft when they are pulled off the gate since the parking spots need to be cleared of snow.

[nname]

Some AC transborder updates for the past couple of weeks:

YVR-SMF will increase to 2x daily CR9 for the entire W24, so the route will be double daily year-round starting May 2024.

YVR-AUS will increase to 4x weekly from June until end of S24 season. May will remain at 3x weekly.