Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by esquire

Do you really think Calgary would get funding for a new stadium solely to accommodate 3 or 4 group-stage WC soccer games?

So much for my contention that Rogers Centre would make the best Toronto venue.

I think the World Cup would be the impetus for federal funding to build a new facility.

Yes, it would play host to a few World Cup games, but would then be taken over by a local tenant.

Did they not build Commonwealth Stadium to support a short-term sporting event and then hand it off to the City and Eskimos for future use back in the 70's?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by osmo

I find Ottawa as a market interesting. Ottawa is "small" when talking in the North America sense but it is a city with very high deposible incomes, strong employment and population base. Corporate scene is tiny there as it's a Govt town but this shouldn't stop national players from posting a flag there with partnerships and sponser deals with sports.

Ottawa should be very similar to Edmonton in terms of demographics and the number of corporate sponsors. Edmonton is obviously a far more rabid fan base, by several orders of magnitude, but Ottawa should do far better than they do currently. Is it the proximity to Montreal that hurts the Sens? the arena is obviously a huge factor, but they should still sell out in the damn playoffs!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I think the World Cup would be the impetus for federal funding to build a new facility.

Yes, it would play host to a few World Cup games, but would then be taken over by a local tenant.

Did they not build Commonwealth Stadium to support a short-term sporting event and then hand it off to the City and Eskimos for future use back in the 70's?

Yeah, fair enough. Although in the case of those games, they did need a stadium with a track which I don't think Clarke Stadium had. And that stadium was the focal point for a 9 day event, as opposed to one of dozens of venues that only gets used for a few matches.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Ottawa should be very similar to Edmonton in terms of demographics and the number of corporate sponsors. Edmonton is obviously a far more rabid fan base, by several orders of magnitude, but Ottawa should do far better than they do currently. Is it the proximity to Montreal that hurts the Sens? the arena is obviously a huge factor, but they should still sell out in the damn playoffs!

There are more Habs and Leafs fans in the city than there are Sens fans. It is a product of being a late addition in a market that already had established teams.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Do you really think Calgary would get funding for a new stadium solely to accommodate 3 or 4 group-stage WC soccer games?

I'm sure this was never even remotely close to being on the table. Why Calgary was included and not Winnipeg I suppose we'll never know.

I'm glad Rogers Centre is out of the picture.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Ottawa should be very similar to Edmonton in terms of demographics and the number of corporate sponsors.

The largest employer in Ottawa, the Federal Government, cannot purchase or distribute tickets for any of its employees. That's a major corporate hope to fill. Ottawa doesn't have a sponsor problem - they have a ticket distribution problem (and an arena location problem).

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The largest employer in Ottawa, the Federal Government, cannot purchase or distribute tickets for any of its employees. That's a major corporate hope to fill.

Would assume the same would apply to the Government of Alberta in Edmonton...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Would assume the same would apply to the Government of Alberta in Edmonton...

Without looking for numbers I'm fairly certain there are more govt workers in Ottawa than Edmonton. I'm guessing the number of people proportionally affected by this law in Ottawa would be higher.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm sure this was never even remotely close to being on the table. Why Calgary was included and not Winnipeg I suppose we'll never know.

I'm glad Rogers Centre is out of the picture.

The MSA was daunted by the scale of the commitment necessary to host games... there is a lot of infrastructure required beyond just the stadium.

This article explains why Winnipeg did not step up to join the list:

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2017/08/1...world-cup-list

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Without looking for numbers I'm fairly certain there are more govt workers in Ottawa than Edmonton. I'm guessing the number of people proportionally affected by this law in Ottawa would be higher.

Oh I'm sure there are more government workers in Ottawa, no question. Just think that shouldn't be too much of a reason as government workers are generally paid fairly well, and Ottawa is no slouch when it comes to non-government jobs.

I think the proximity to Montreal and the location of the arena are likely bigger factors, however I'm not in Ottawa so all I can do is speculate...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Without looking for numbers I'm fairly certain there are more govt workers in Ottawa than Edmonton. I'm guessing the number of people proportionally affected by this law in Ottawa would be higher.

Most definitely so.

[esquire]

Ottawa has a lot of government workers, but surely that should translate into a lot of a) well paid execs who can buy season tickets individually, and b) suppliers who can buy premium seats and suites?

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by wave46

There are more Habs and Leafs fans in the city than there are Sens fans. It is a product of being a late addition in a market that already had established teams.

While I would support that there are many Habs, and to a lesser extent Leafs fans in Ottawa, I don't believe that there are more.Many young adults and teens in both Ottawa and Gatineau have grown up with the Sens as their local team, and are part of a new breed of fan who did not have a prior allegiance. I will agree that it is also hard to break the influence of your parents favourite team however.

With the Sens outreach efforts, it does not take long to create, or convert one to become a Sens fan. With a new area at Lebreton Flats, a Sens ticket will become the hottest ticket in town!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Oh I'm sure there are more government workers in Ottawa, no question. Just think that shouldn't be too much of a reason as government workers are generally paid fairly well, and Ottawa is no slouch when it comes to non-government jobs.

I think the proximity to Montreal and the location of the arena are likely bigger factors, however I'm not in Ottawa so all I can do is speculate...

A large portion of the Ottawa Valley on the Ontario side was/is big Maple Leafs territory.

IMO the Leafs aren't as dominant there as the Habs are in the Gatineau market, but it still weakens the Senators' market reach.

Also keep in mind this area has a very transient population with lots of people from other parts of the country. More than the Canadian average I'd say.

Hometown loyalty isn't as big a deal here as it is elsewhere.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

While I would support that there are many Habs, and to a lesser extent Leafs fans in Ottawa, I don't believe that there are more.Many young adults and teens in both Ottawa and Gatineau have grown up with the Sens as their local team, and are part of a new breed of fan who did not have a prior allegiance. I will agree that it is also hard to break the influence of your parents favourite team however.

With the Sens outreach efforts, it does not take long to create, or convert one to become a Sens fan. With a new area at Lebreton Flats, a Sens ticket will become the hottest ticket in town!

In Gatineau at least there are definitely more Habs fans than Sens fans.

By at least a 2 to 1 margin. (This is actually a big improvement for the Sens. It used to be worse.)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

While I would support that there are many Habs, and to a lesser extent Leafs fans in Ottawa, I don't believe that there are more.Many young adults and teens in both Ottawa and Gatineau have grown up with the Sens as their local team, and are part of a new breed of fan who did not have a prior allegiance. I will agree that it is also hard to break the influence of your parents favourite team however.

With the Sens outreach efforts, it does not take long to create, or convert one to become a Sens fan. With a new area at Lebreton Flats, a Sens ticket will become the hottest ticket in town!

Considering that the Sens are 25 years old and have a Cup run under their belt from a decade ago, you'd think that would have been enough to create a generation of converts. I appreciate that the Leafs and Habs in particular had some success in the early 90s, but we're talking 20 years with pretty much jack all to show for it by those two teams.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

Considering that the Sens are 25 years old and have a Cup run under their belt from a decade ago, you'd think that would have been enough to create a generation of converts. I appreciate that the Leafs and Habs in particular had some success in the early 90s, but we're talking 20 years with pretty much jack all to show for it by those two teams.

Well, if the past 50 years haven't dissuaded die-hard Leafs fans, not much will.

The Habs at least had more promise recently and Montreal is much closer - I can understand that completely.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Considering that the Sens are 25 years old and have a Cup run under their belt from a decade ago, you'd think that would have been enough to create a generation of converts. I appreciate that the Leafs and Habs in particular had some success in the early 90s, but we're talking 20 years with pretty much jack all to show for it by those two teams.

As has been demonstrated by the Leafs for decades, a team doesn't necessarily have to be any good to have a fanbase.

Originally Posted by esquire

Ottawa has a lot of government workers, but surely that should translate into a lot of a) well paid execs who can buy season tickets individually, and b) suppliers who can buy premium seats and suites?

Yes and no. This is where the arena being in the middle of nowhere and inconvenient for most plays into compounding the issue. Plant an arena downtown and sellouts won't be difficult.

The side issue is that, unlike in other larger markets, the largest employer in town can't simply sweep up rows of seats for their own employees.

[esquire]

Haha, I don't expect the diehard boomers with memories of 1967 to switch teams, but I would find it pretty surprising if there were all that many 22 year olds with strong rooting allegiances to the Leafs.

I guess the intense regional media coverage of the Leafs (SN/TSN) and the Habs (RDS) must have some influence over fans... hell, when I was a kid even I rooted for the Leafs because they were the team I got to see on TV every Saturday. The Jets were hardly ever televised back in those days.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Haha, I don't expect the diehard boomers with memories of 1967 to switch teams, but I would find it pretty surprising if there were all that many 22 year olds with strong rooting allegiances to the Leafs.

.

This is true but only to a point. The Leafs fan base in the Ottawa Valley may indeed be older than the Sens', but sports team fandom is also often a family affair.

When families have been fans of a specific club intergenerationally, it's hard to break that.