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  #301  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
So... now what? Are they gonna somehow drill tiny holes and take test samples of the core to see when/if construction can proceed?
That's usually how it would be done. Samples from the various pours sent to a lab for composition, compression and other various tests.

With a structure this complex, if the concrete is found to be sub-standard, I'm not even sure how it would be fixed.

Disappointing. This tower is amazing looking.
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  #302  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 8:43 PM
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Marine (saline) sand is a MAJOR no-no. If true, this is a big setback.
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  #303  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 9:27 PM
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http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...-sand-concrete


Shenzhen construction on hold after alert over cheap sand in concrete

Quote:
[...]Kou Zuomin, a retired architect in Shenzhen, said the use of sea sand was an open secret.

"Both developers and supervisors know it but they just turn a blind eye."
http://designbuildsource.com.au/corr...in-south-china

Quote:
[...]Work on a slew of major projects in the southern Chinese metropolis of Shenzhen has been abruptly suspended following reports that the concrete used for their construction was made from cheap, unprocessed sea sand.
     
     
  #304  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 9:34 PM
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Unfortunately that's what happens when you have less than satisfactory oversight of building standards.
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  #305  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2013, 9:38 PM
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What a shame for China.

This would never happen in Canada or USA.
     
     
  #306  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 2:34 PM
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Build quick and cheap and people will cut corners.
     
     
  #307  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Sand issues is just one of many construction/maintenance inadequacies you'll find in this country. Around Beijing, most buildings barely get to 5 years old without crumbling walls, broken steps, falling panels, leaks, and other problems.


The school I work at was built in 2008 has good architecture, looks sharp and makes a good first impression on you but parts of it are already falling apart with broken and loose floor tiles inside and outside the buildings, deep cracks in the classrooms chipped brick cobbling in the walkways, rusted railings, and falling side tiles on raised surfaces exposing shoddy brickwork underneath amongst other things. The buildings main facade highlights the use or red brick yet it is no more than a half-centimeter thick covering that is peeling off in many places showing it's nasty and inadequate mortar underneath. The school is not even lacking in money as tuition rates are amongst the highest in the country and the student body come from mostly wealthy families.
It's just one glaring example I know well but everywhere I go in this city, I see shoddy work with the exceptions being the trophy towers you see in city photos.
     
     
  #308  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 6:32 PM
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If they have been pouring the low-grade concrete from the beginning there is no way to build on top of it. It will have to be removed, which means starting over for this building. It will probably be tested for strength to determine the maximum height they are able to go building on a shoddy foundation.

Quote:
cjbs1
What a shame for China. This would never happen in Canada or USA.
I have worked construction and unfortunately it does happen, just less frequently and usually on projects of less scale.
     
     
  #309  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 3:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunser View Post
Quote:
Work on a slew of major projects in the southern Chinese metropolis of Shenzhen has been abruptly suspended following reports that the concrete used for their construction was made from cheap, unprocessed sea sand.
If these quality problems are widespread in China (I seriously hope they aren't), then a great deal of their unprecedented economic growth is going to waste.
     
     
  #310  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 10:17 PM
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Wired picked up the issue, apparently its very widespread (for instance, the concrete ties use substandard concrete in their new HSR projects):

Quote:
Poor-Quality Chinese Concrete Could Lead to Skyscraper Collapses

A sand scandal is brewing in China, with concerns that low-quality concrete has been used in the construction of many of the country’s largest buildings — putting them at risk of collapse.
http://www.wired.com/design/2013/03/...per-collapses/

I think saline sand also causes the corrosion and failure of the rebar, so the building could collapse after a few years if they kept building. And the taller the building, the bigger the potential for failure.
     
     
  #311  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 11:25 PM
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Is this building going to go back under construction or is it done with?
     
     
  #312  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 1:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilfondel View Post
Wired picked up the issue, apparently its very widespread (for instance, the concrete ties use substandard concrete in their new HSR projects):



http://www.wired.com/design/2013/03/...per-collapses/

I think saline sand also causes the corrosion and failure of the rebar, so the building could collapse after a few years if they kept building. And the taller the building, the bigger the potential for failure.
I wonder how much effect the foundation can have on this equation. Perhaps if it's strong enough they won't need to cancel the building? Or will it degrade regardless? Sorry but I know nothing of structural engineering.
     
     
  #313  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 1:35 AM
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Making concrete is like making culinary cuisine. The right ingredients have to be mixed to make the right type of concrete. This video would explain it better.
Video Link
     
     
  #314  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Viciousial View Post
Is this building going to go back under construction or is it done with?
The tests they will be preforming on the concrete samples will determine what height if any the building will be able to withhold. Starting again would be easier than fixing what they have if the salt content is to high. Salt eats at not only the rebar but the lime that is used in the concrete. So to answer your question yes this building will not be completed as the one you see in the rendering.
     
     
  #315  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Design-mind View Post
The tests they will be preforming on the concrete samples will determine what height if any the building will be able to withhold. Starting again would be easier than fixing what they have if the salt content is to high. Salt eats at not only the rebar but the lime that is used in the concrete. So to answer your question yes this building will not be completed as the one you see in the rendering.
Apparently the problem has been resolved as the tests came back negative. Construction is likely to resume next week.
     
     
  #316  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 5:22 PM
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^^^ Well that is terrific news. Hopefully this is the truth and not just some corrupt payoff.
     
     
  #317  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 9:40 PM
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You wouldn't get me up into this tower either way...
     
     
  #318  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:26 PM
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I hated buildings with spires like wtc1 for extra height but this one has grown on me over the past year. Cant wait too see it built... Even though imo it would be shorter than shanghai tower.
     
     
  #319  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 4:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbs1 View Post
What a shame for China.

This would never happen in Canada or USA.
To be fair, building standards in the US are pretty abysmal as well compared to most of Northern Europe for example. It is all relative. The way you see China, a Swedish person sees the US.
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  #320  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 5:06 AM
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To be fair, building standards in the US are pretty abysmal as well compared to most of Northern Europe for example. It is all relative. The way you see China, a Swedish person sees the US.
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I have a hard time believing the relative difference is that big.
     
     
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