HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted May 26, 2014, 10:04 PM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom View Post
you can make lightrail trains longer
You can, unfortunately you can't run longer light rail trains through downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted May 28, 2014, 4:42 AM
dubu's Avatar
dubu dubu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: bend oregon
Posts: 1,449
you could have both the powell and the 99e lines with long trains go to osu right?

have the same train go from tigard to clackamas.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted May 28, 2014, 10:47 PM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom View Post
you could have both the powell and the 99e lines with long trains go to osu right?

have the same train go from tigard to clackamas.
Longer light rail trains still couldn't run through downtown Portland. And I don't think there would be enough demand for a train that ran from Tigard to Clackamas to justify a train.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 7:33 AM
dubu's Avatar
dubu dubu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: bend oregon
Posts: 1,449
i hope well get some real use out of the new bridge. downtown portland is fun to hang out in but most people dont go there every day.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2014, 9:01 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
Another case for Powell MAX:

If the SW Corridor group decides on a MAX, the next corridor to consider this will be Powell. Let's look at the mall for a bit. That will put 3 trains on the East/West alignment and 3 to 4 trains on the N/S alignment: yellow, green, orange (and another potential line if the SW Corridor splits at Tigard and Tualatin). This means that both E/W and N/S malls will be close to their capacity threshold. Capacity is yet to be defined, so if anyone knows this please chime in.

At present the yellow and green run more or less every 15 minutes. This will slightly change when the orange line is added as trains change colors downtown. We'll find out next Summer what change this has on the N/S mall traffic. But the effect the SW corridor will have will be much more significant. 3-4 trains must be staggered at intervals every 5 minutes or less.

Enter the Powell Corridor. If Powell has one train, that places 4-5 trains on the N/S alignment, at intervals of 3-4 minutes. But what if the Powell Corridor has two (or more) lines, one to Lents/Clackamas, and one via the existing alignment to SE Main and East to 181st/Gresham? By any definition of capacity, the N/S mall is antiquated.

If you are an advocate of a downtown subway, this is the most logical step. Given a Powell MAX alignment, a downtown subway will follow. Given Powell Corridor buses the mall will remain.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2014, 8:07 AM
davehogan davehogan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
I recently did a Metro survey for people who live in SE Portland, especially near Powell. I'll post results if I ever see them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2014, 6:34 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
"This is the first study to document important effects of light rail transit on traffic volumes."

Study on the new light rail line in Salt Lake City.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2014, 9:12 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
There likely will be no consideration of a MAX on Powell. Here's a recent Metro blog post promoting BRT.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 12:20 AM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by hat View Post
There likely will be no consideration of a MAX on Powell. Here's a recent Metro blog post promoting BRT.
Real BRT would mean that a lane each way would dedicated to buses. It is basically the poor man's light rail. I have no problem with Portland putting in a BRT system to go along with light rail and streetcar lines.

Also with BRT, it makes it potentially easier to create lines that could eventually be expanded to handle streetcars if needed.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 7:17 AM
pdxstreetcar's Avatar
pdxstreetcar pdxstreetcar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,300
And I'm pretty sure this will be a poor man's BRT like almost all the other BRT systems in the US... in other words a bus painted red, a few custom shelters and a cute name, yet somehow it will still cost like a $100 million for just that.

Across the country including Portland, they are afraid to give buses priority at intersections even though it is very easy to do so. Signal priority was built yet disabled in Cleveland for their supposedly gold plated BRT line, LA's Orange Line is at capacity and are talking about converting to LRT but its been pointed out that giving the buses priority at cross traffic lights would solve the capacity problem. Even on PMLR here, between OMSI and Clinton Stations where there is the shared transitway, the #9, 17, 19 buses have exit the right of way well before Clinton and use surface streets because they said the buses would be too frequent for the traffic lights so only MAX has priority and straight shot thru here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 9:22 AM
davehogan davehogan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar View Post
Even on PMLR here, between OMSI and Clinton Stations where there is the shared transitway, the #9, 17, 19 buses have exit the right of way well before Clinton and use surface streets because they said the buses would be too frequent for the traffic lights so only MAX has priority and straight shot thru here.
The 19 is staying on the Ross Island Bridge from Trimet's latest plan.

Since only the 9 and 17 will use the transitway there's a chance they'll have signal prioritization. From what I've seen walking through that area the equipment looks like it will be available (even if it's not used immediately.)

There are three tracks at the new Clinton Street station, so maybe they have something planned for taking LRT out Powell, but they're also building out the infrastructure for just running more buses through the corridor.

If BRT through Powell happens, it'd also be nice in the long term to see a line run Powell->Foster->122nd up to Gateway. It would directly connect the Red/Blue/Green to 122nd to the Blue at 122nd to the Green at Foster/Lents Town Center to overlap the Powell BRT to the Orange line.

TriMet usually builds for future expansion, but other than the third track (which could be explained by extending the Yellow line to Clinton St) there's not any signal of where a Powell line would hook in. That makes me think TriMet's not planning to add more light rail to SE right now.

Between MAX and streetcars there will already be a lot of trains going over the new bridge. For now reserving some ROW along Powell while also providing better service will pave the way for future service improvements.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 6:37 AM
pdxstreetcar's Avatar
pdxstreetcar pdxstreetcar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,300
Hmm that's a new change to not include the #19 on the bridge, I wonder if some other line is taking its place. It would be unfortunate if it not because traffic is always really bad on the Ross Island Bridge so this could have allowed buses to bypass all that.

I'm not sure they set it up for buses to ever have priority, more through the design of the busway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 7:18 AM
davehogan davehogan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar View Post
Hmm that's a new change to not include the #19 on the bridge, I wonder if some other line is taking its place. It would be unfortunate if it not because traffic is always really bad on the Ross Island Bridge so this could have allowed buses to bypass all that.

I'm not sure they set it up for buses to ever have priority, more through the design of the busway.
http://trimet.org/alerts/pmlrbuschanges/index.htm

That has a link to a map of all changes. The 99 running through Sellwood (across the new bridge) was a surprise to me. Only the 9 and 17 on the new bridge (with the streetcar and MAX).

I have heard the Yellow Line will cross the river to SE 12th (there's three tracks at the station so it makes sense as a turnaround) but I haven't seen anything official about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 4:38 PM
NJD's Avatar
NJD NJD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 632
^ has anyone else noticed the map shows the 9 and 17 follow the streetcar route on the westside rather than the brand new transitway they built up to Lincoln Street. wasn't that the point, to run buses up Lincoln as BRTish?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #115  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 4:41 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,389
I asked about that on portlandtransport, and the answer seemed to be that it's a mistake on the map.
__________________
"Maybe to an architect, they might look suspicious, but to me, they just look like rocks"

www.twitter.com/maccoinnich
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #116  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2014, 6:36 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
Anyone know about the Denver light rail system and its corporate funding system? If we can't get governments to pay for it, maybe this is a possibility.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #117  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2014, 4:47 AM
davehogan davehogan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by hat View Post
Anyone know about the Denver light rail system and its corporate funding system? If we can't get governments to pay for it, maybe this is a possibility.
The Portland Streetcar does it.

Link. That's not going to pay for system expansion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2014, 8:00 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehogan View Post
The Portland Streetcar does it.

Link. That's not going to pay for system expansion.
Yet it worked in Denver. Anyone know how?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 4:11 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
Interesting article in the Austin Statesman comparing Austin and Portland's transit systems.

Couple very nice graphs and stats included in it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #120  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 10:13 PM
hat hat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 381
New documents containing public feedback for the Powell-Division corridor.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:20 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.