Canada's Panamerica Identity

[lio45]

A little experiment just for fun, seeing that here we're all generally interested in architecture. (I dug up this thread, it's the right place for that.)


Those fresh pics of mine were all taken in the same area. Three different "ordinary" little towns. (I happen to think they're pretty cool architecturally, but they're nonetheless average.)

Typical ~1900 commercial "Main Street"-style architecture.

What are the little details that give away that those pics haven't been taken in a small town in your own area?

P.S. Bonus points if anyone guesses correctly where the pics are from.



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[lio45]

Set 2, because why not...

Same "rules": do these remind you somewhat of "home" architecturally speaking? Or not? and why?




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[Nouvellecosse]

The first thing I saw that really jumped out at me starting at the very first picture and continued all through were all the NY license plates. I first thought it could have been part of Ontario close to the border, but there were just too many so it must be NY state.

As for the built form, it couldn't be the Maritimes, because anywhere that was large enough long enough ago to have that many historic buildings would not likely have such wide streets and there are very few places here that have semi-perpendicular on street parking. They seem to have lots of historic buildings, but few really grand buildings. And it took me awhile to put it together, but a major feature seems to be that they're stuck in limbo. The large historic building stock seems to be very well maintained as if the places are reasonably successful economically, but the streetscapes aren't broken up with modern buildings, additions, and the like that would go along with prosperity here. If the places were economically depressed, the streetscape may be still intact (probably more parking lots) but would look rougher and less maintained.

As far as the actual buildings themselves, you could find them in the Maritimes, but any place that was old enough to have that much historic stock would have much more stone and less brick. It's not that different from some of the historic stock in a new place like Moncton, but then comes the fact that the historic nature of the streetscape is too intact. In fact, it seems like maybe two or three buildings in all the pictures are stone rather than brick and that would be unheard of here. That domed courthouse building would definitely be stone, either sandstone or limestone most likely.

I would have to guess the region would be fairly far upsate across the St. Lawrence from Kingston or Cornwall.

[kool maudit]

Those pictures seem very American, likely due to the prominence of the County Courthouse and to a lesser degree the angled parking and the preponderance of large trucks.

The courthouse is to a lot of U.S. small towns what the church is to European ones.

[Acajack]

What tips me off: traffic signals and signage. For example, I don't think anywhere in Central-Eastern Canada uses those US-style arrows with the ONLY above traffic lanes.

Also, obviously American flags and that 4th of July red white and blue bunting stuff you see in the States.

I honestly suspected on the photos might be Sherbrooke or somewhere in the Eastern Townships.

[niwell]

Without looking at the above responses first, the big tipoffs for me (and in comparison to small town Ontario) are:

-Traffic signals, both that they are arranged differently and the style where they hang from wires in the first set. That's very American, and particularly great lakes / upstate New York. Ontario has a lot of overhead wires, but we don't hang traffic lights from them.
-Prominent county courthouse and square in the second set.
-Angled parking and generally wider streets in the second set.
-To a lesser extent, the look of the buildings in that they are more uniform, and appear to have been built in a relatively short timeframe from one another. This is more prominent in the second set. Ontario towns are a bit more eclectic / haphazard in their downtown building styles.

If I was going to guess I would say the first set is somewhere in upstate New York, and the second is in the midwest / great plains somewhere. I could look up the location of the county on the courthouse but I am lazy right now!

[Acajack]

Angled parking was another one for me. You don't really see that in Canada (unless I am mistaken) anywhere east of Manitoba.

It's not common in the NE US either.

[Taeolas]

The Red White and Blue bunting tipped me off that it was American; the license plates were the clencher but too obvious.

It does overall remind me of an Eastern small town; it could be a Maritime town, but I think the rows of buildings were more American than Canadian for me. Having grown up between Houlton, Maine and Woodstock, New Brunswick, the pics really reminded me of Houlton, with that building style. Woodstock's buildings aren't as packed as tightly together (probably due to building on a valley hill, whereas Houlton is built on a flat space), and had a bigger downtown for that type of building style.

Actually, come to think of it, it could have been similar to Woodstock; Woodstock itself has lost a lot of those style of buildings through the years so its downtown has more space and looks more modern in general, but it does have some sections that look/looked like that too.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Angled parking was another one for me. You don't really see that in Canada (unless I am mistaken) anywhere east of Manitoba.

It's not common in the NE US either.

There's lots of angled parking in Charlottetown. This has a lot to do with the fact that when Samuel Holland surveyed the town nearly 250 years ago, it was planned to be the colonial capital, and the town plan thus included wide streets that could eventually become grand avenues. Charlottetown however did not ultimately live up to these grand expectations and the wide roadways eventually allowed for angled vehicular parking in the 20th century.


Queen Street in Charlottetown

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There's lots of angled parking in Charlottetown. This has a lot to do with the fact that when Samuel Holland surveyed the town nearly 250 years ago, it was planned to be the colonial capital, and the town plan thus included wide streets that could eventually become grand avenues. Charlottetown however did not ultimately live up to these grand expectations and the wide roadways eventually allowed for angled vehicular parking in the 20th century.

OK thanks! I've spent a lot of time there in my life but I guess I never really noticed!

[Nouvellecosse]

Yes there's also a little in Lunenburg so not completely unheard of in the Maritimes; it's just not prevalent.

[mistercorporate]

Tons of angled parking in St. Catharines. Those pics could be anywhere in old Ontario. Toronto had entire neighbourhoods like that but many of them have been demolished during the 60's and those overhead shades on storefronts taken down but you still stumble upon street corners like that from time to time.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by lio45

A little experiment just for fun, seeing that here we're all generally interested in architecture. (I dug up this thread, it's the right place for that.)


Those fresh pics of mine were all taken in the same area. Three different "ordinary" little towns. (I happen to think they're pretty cool architecturally, but they're nonetheless average.)

Typical ~1900 commercial "Main Street"-style architecture.

What are the little details that give away that those pics haven't been taken in a small town in your own area?

P.S. Bonus points if anyone guesses correctly where the pics are from.

The first set is somewhere in New York state (license plates), but it couldn't be in Canada. Here's why:

1. The architecture is too high Victorian/Gilded Age to be anywhere west of Ontario.

2. No city in Ontario that I know of except Stratford has a 4 lane (plus parking) bi-directional main street through its downtown. I can't think of many Atlantic Canadian cities that would have that set up, either.

3. The main street is too neat and orderly to be a Canadian city. Most Ontario cities have garish backlit signage (banks are a real culprit) that is far larger than what you see there, and most Quebec and Atlantic Canadian cities of that size (20,000?) have wooden utility poles on the main street. Fake stone, vinyl siding or aluminum siding are conspicuously absent in all the American photos.

And - most importantly:

4. All the buildings are pre-war. I know of very, very few Canadian cities where there are 3 intact blocks of Victorian or Edwardian structures. Usually there's at least a 1950s-era 1 storey brick modern bank box that breaks up the streetwall, or some other nondescript building built in the last 50 years.

The second set is clearly from west of the Mississippi (Texas) and couldn't be Western Canada because the buildings are uniform, all pre-war, all one material, and all one colour.

[lio45]

Wow, thanks a lot guys for the bunch of interesting replies!

Actually, many of you have confirmed something I was suspecting and that was bugging me a bit -- but I kinda have to face the facts...

Canadians, generally speaking, don't seem to have much architectural taste/pride. Our towns inevitably have a few really horrible buildings here and there that totally clash with the style of the rest of the older/heritage built form... one of the things that's striking for a Canadian in these random town pictures is that the towns are, to us, surprisingly nice and homogeneous, architecturally.

This "good old times" well-preserved, nearly intact "Main Street" factor... we don't have it as much.

[lio45]

Most of you were completely correct with your guesses, by the way.

The former set of pics was taken in three different Upstate NY little towns. Most of the pics are actually from there:

(when I say upstate, it's truly upstate! Greater Greater Montreal.)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...10f0b01bd3f6f1

The second set was indeed from west of the Mississippi, in a random western Oklahoma town. The buildings are visibly newer, ~1900, and the street is wider.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by lio45

Wow, thanks a lot guys for the bunch of interesting replies!

Actually, many of you have confirmed something I was suspecting and that was bugging me a bit -- but I kinda have to face the facts...

Canadians, generally speaking, don't seem to have much architectural taste/pride. Our towns inevitably have a few really horrible buildings here and there that totally clash with the style of the rest of the older/heritage built form... one of the things that's striking for a Canadian in these random town pictures is that the towns are, to us, surprisingly nice and homogeneous, architecturally.

This "good old times" well-preserved, nearly intact "Main Street" factor... we don't have it as much.

Dunno... personally I kind of prefer our towns with their complexity and variety. I can't stand when they have surface parking and feel empty, but for there to be architecture from different eras mixed in with heritage structures seems to me more like a feature than a bug. Small towns that are very homogeneous (both in appearance and otherwise) have a hard time not to seem boring to me. Nice maybe for a short visit but beyond that...

When i walk around small towns in NS I'm familiar with, I'm transported back to so many different eras. From Victorian times through the different parts of the 20th century, and so on. But the towns still seem charming and quaint since they lack highrises, busy multi-lane roads, etc.

Not that there aren't some significant loses or things I'd like to see changed mind you.

[lio45]

hipster duck summed it up perfectly well IMO...

Originally Posted by hipster duck

The first set is somewhere in New York state (license plates), but it couldn't be in Canada. Here's why:

(...)

3. The main street is too neat and orderly to be a Canadian city. Most Ontario cities have garish backlit signage (banks are a real culprit) that is far larger than what you see there, and most Quebec and Atlantic Canadian cities of that size (20,000?) have wooden utility poles on the main street. Fake stone, vinyl siding or aluminum siding are conspicuously absent in all the American photos.

And - most importantly:

4. All the buildings are pre-war. I know of very, very few Canadian cities where there are 3 intact blocks of Victorian or Edwardian structures. Usually there's at least a 1950s-era 1 storey brick modern bank box that breaks up the streetwall, or some other nondescript building built in the last 50 years.

[Nouvellecosse]

Thinking about it further, the problem I have with the US town examples isn't so much that they lack a variety of eras so much as that I prefer the style of historical buildings that we have here. If we were to have a whole district of intact historical buildings they wouldn't look as homogeneous because there would be a greater variety of facade styles, materials, and sizes.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by lio45

Most of you were completely correct with your guesses, by the way.

The former set of pics was taken in three different Upstate NY little towns. Most of the pics are actually from there:

(when I say upstate, it's truly upstate! Greater Greater Montreal.)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...10f0b01bd3f6f1

The second set was indeed from west of the Mississippi, in a random western Oklahoma town. The buildings are visibly newer, ~1900, and the street is wider.

Lol right next to platsburg for years I thought I drove by pittsburg embarassing.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

If we were to have a whole district of intact historical buildings they wouldn't look as homogeneous because there would be a greater variety of facade styles, materials, and sizes.

I'm not really sure about that, and relatively intact/homogeneous areas like that are generally universally considered appealing, at least in Quebec. They're rare, though. There are usually a few "nondescript buildings built in the last 50 years" here and there.

The starkest contrast IMO is in the St. Lawrence Valley along each of the two old roads (there's one on each shore), where you can see old stone houses in the Canadian Vernacular style from the 1700s and early 1800s, mixed with some of the earliest brick houses (early 1800s), mixed with bland cheapass wood houses/duplexes from the mid/late 1800s and early 1900s, mixed with mid-1970s bungalows.

Even the most homogeneous and well-conserved villages (Deschambault-Grondines for example) have a bunch of newer, really totally non-integrated architecturally stuff -- you can't help but want to slap whoever delivered the permit to built those.