How likely is it for you to encounter people who haven't been to the US?

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I remember a relative of mine who was a middle school teacher in Mississauga talking about a field trip into downtown Toronto, and how the kids were really excited about it.

I said: ''they live right next to Toronto, how exciting can it be for them to go there?''

And she said that the majority of kids in her class almost *never* went into the city. (Even if it was only a 20-minute drive.)

Some were born in Toronto 13 years before but hadn't set foot in that city since their birth.

And this wasn't in a poor part of Mississauga. (Actually it was a French school, so kids were drawn from all over a large part of the city.)

I can totally see that. When I was around 15 in Brampton, my friend said he had never been more than two hours outside of the GTA. His parents came from Newfoundland and were of modest means. I suppose they were used to being isolated so they didn't care much for going elsewhere.

In his 15 years, he probably remembered only seeing the CN Tower close a couple of times, one of those times was on a field trip to the ROM or something.

Obviously, as soon as he got a licence he went straight downtown.

[lio45]

I recall someone on SSP mentioned a while ago (in a completely unrelated thread) that he knew someone who had never left his Toronto neighborhood in years.

In a sense, I can understand that -- it's crazy to think I haven't been to Europe in over a decade now! I would say that having the world at our fingertips nowadays through the internet reduces the need to physically go places*.

I mean, you look at a good SSP photothread of a city and it's almost like you just went...


* just for the sightseeing aspect. (You can likely get tons of good exotic food locally nowadays, and get exposed to a foreign culture online if you're seriously interested in it.)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by megadude

I can totally see that. When I was around 15 in Brampton, my friend said he had never been more than two hours outside of the GTA. His parents came from Newfoundland and were of modest means. I suppose they were used to being isolated so they didn't care much for going elsewhere.

In his 15 years, he probably remembered only seeing the CN Tower close a couple of times, one of those times was on a field trip to the ROM or something.

Obviously, as soon as he got a licence he went straight downtown.

There is so much within 2 hours of the GTA, though... within 2ish hours (assuming you don't get caught in a massive traffic jam), you've got a couple of good-sized metropolises (Hamilton and Buffalo), a major tourist destination (Niagara Falls), various interesting smaller cities (London, Kingston, K-W, etc.) and cottage country with beaches and lakes.

I would not place Toronto into the league of cities that you could stay in for the rest of your life in and never run out of things to do like New York, London, Tokyo, etc., but at the same time there is a ton of interesting places and things in and around the GTA.

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's a good point. The same goes for me. My origins are not completely European but I definitely do look like a white guy. I have French first and last names, but with a slightly different twist I could have a last name that *might* raise some eyebrows from the keener U.S. border people.

Though relatives of mine who have that surname have never reported any issues at the border - their first names all tend to be French Christian names though like Pierre, Jean, Jacques, Marie...

I'm not white. Actually to most people I'm pretty ethnically ambiguous. I absolutely have rethought travel in/to the U.S. as it currently stands. I can't say I'm to the point of avoiding it entirely, but I think pretty strategically about exactly where I might go and why. To be fair this isn't new...it was tense and frustrating enough travelling to the U.S. and Europe even before the current climate - but is that much worse now.

[SignalHillHiker]

I know a couple of people who have never left Newfoundland and never been to even St. John's. I know a couple who have never left St. John's (one in particular whose husband torments her saying she's never been off Water Street; Downtownie girl through and through).

I know a few people who have never been to mainland Canada or the United States at all, and quite a few more who have only been to mainland Canada to catch a connecting flight to the United States or Europe. (St. John's - Toronto - London back in the day, etc.).

Excepting those two poorly-traveled groups, I know almost no one who hasn't been to mainland Canada or the United States - even if it's only a single trip, say an extended school trip to Halifax or Quebec City, or to see a play on Broadway.

Most of the people I know have been many times to mainland Canada, the United States, and Europe. Most people I know consider travel the luxury they're willing to spend money on. Even the aunts/uncles who live in shacks go to NYC or Vienna or even Vegas annually.

[ue]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I've actually only been to the US once in my whole life, and that was to Rochester for a single 1-day trip to see a concert. Most of my trips out of the country are to Europe or the Carribean. And I was born and raised in Canada to an upper middle class family.

I always find cases like this interesting. Why is it you don't go to the US? Kingston is right on the border, after all...

[megadude]

Originally Posted by esquire

There is so much within 2 hours of the GTA, though... within 2ish hours (assuming you don't get caught in a massive traffic jam), you've got a couple of good-sized metropolises (Hamilton and Buffalo), a major tourist destination (Niagara Falls), various interesting smaller cities (London, Kingston, K-W, etc.) and cottage country with beaches and lakes.

I would not place Toronto into the league of cities that you could stay in for the rest of your life in and never run out of things to do like New York, London, Tokyo, etc., but at the same time there is a ton of interesting places and things in and around the GTA.

True. I've covered so much within those two hours myself. Mainly for entertainment and exploration. For him, it was like Niagara once with his family, and a handful of short road trips to conservation areas or St. Jacobs Market for instance.

I know that his dad went to a couple of concerts downtown to watch White Snake or something like that but wouldn't bring his son. When we went to a Jays game when we were 16 or 17 he said he honestly couldn't remember if he had been to one before. It was that long ago if he had.

Basically his parents weren't city people. Only lived in Brampton for work and because there's a significant NFLD community there.


I know someone else that has only been to LV for a fun trip and that was once. The only other times he went to the US was for hockey tournaments in Rochester, Buffalo and Syracuse when he was a young lad.

He went to Cuba and DR a handful of times growing up and then with his future wife.

But he hasn't left the country for about eight years now. He goes once a year to Great Wolf Lodge in Niagara with the family but I'm assuming he doesn't have a passport anymore and he likes it that way so his wife can't drag him over the border for shopping.

Also, he loves fishing and being in the woods and grew up going to the cottage. He left the city lifestyle of Brampton and Sauga behind and moved to the Kawarthas to live on a lake and do his trade as his own boss. So basically he's living his ideal lifestyle and has no reason to leave anymore. This also means his kids haven't left Ontario and presumably won't until their late teens at the earliest. Not that it really matters.

I assume there's a lot of Northern Ontario or cottage area people, middle class or lower, who are the same. Like the laid back lifestyle close to nature and surrounded by pristine lakes in the summer and own a boat and don't feel the need to leave, particularly if they don't have a tonne of money to blow.

[Architype]

I'm not sure I know anyone who has not been there, at least here in Vancouver. In areas or regions far away from the border (i.e. Nfld.), this would be much more common. But, back when you could zip across for a few groceries without a passport, etc., people crossed from here all the time. I can see America from my house.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Architype

I'm not sure I know anyone who has not been there, at least here in Vancouver. In areas or regions far away from the border (i.e. Nfld.), this would be much more common. But, back when you could zip across for a few groceries without a passport, etc., people crossed from here all the time. I can see America from my house.

There is also Point Roberts, WA - with the only land access via Delta, B.C. - we used to go there in the 90s to watch hockey etc. at "The Breakers". We would of course sneak cheap beer back form the grocery store there (and fill up the car of course). Friends from Surrey also had a cabin there - we spent several summer weekends there.

I've left Victoria on the 6am Coho ferry and had breakfast in Silverdale/Bremerton, WA - then drove through Tacoma/Olympia and on to Portland for lunch (BJ's on Hayden Island).

Rare for someone living in Victoria to not have gone to the States.

[vid]

Originally Posted by esquire

I've heard people talk about this... personally I don't get it. Yeah I think Trump is a dangerous goof who is quickly ruining the United States, but I don't see why I should deprive myself of a vacation on the Florida coast because of it. Nothing will change if I stay home.

It's mostly the hassle of going over the border. They want to dig into people's electronic devices now, and I don't know if I need to see Duluth so badly that I'm willing to let a foreign country look at my phone.

[geotag277]

Feel bad for those Canadians who were too young to experience travelling south before 9/11.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by north 42

I don't think it's BS at all, the entire world has been watching the US struggle with mass shootings, extreme racial tensions and riots, racial profiling, immigration interrogation, thickening borders, an over the top and aggressive Homeland security, and the big orange monkey posing as it's president!
I am horrified at what is happening over there, and so are many others across the globe, and I love the place, especially the Detroit area, for obvious reasons. I wouldn't let it stop me from visiting the States if there was something I really wanted to see, but to me it makes going over there much less attractive than it used to be! Trust me, I hear this view from many different people, it's a very real phenomenon!

That's about how I feel. I used to go to the U.S. a lot for vacations but the country has become much less attractive to me. I find that too many Americans are tolerating the alt-right which is scary. I'm thinking of maybe going to somewhere very black or Mexican if I do go there. I've always liked Detroit so that may be where I go next.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

It's mostly the hassle of going over the border. They want to dig into people's electronic devices now, and I don't know if I need to see Duluth so badly that I'm willing to let a foreign country look at my phone.

For the record, I have never, ever, ever experienced anyone at the border showing the slightest interest in my phone.

Incidentally, I have a few errands to run in the U.S. tomorrow morning and I bet entering will be as much of a breeze as it always is (lately, they don't even bother asking me to open the trunk -- can't recall the last time someone asked me to do that).

You have the right to be irrationally paranoid about "the hassle" if you wish, but just know that it's actually not like that in reality. (And you're probably correct that Duluth isn't a special kind of must see, so, no big loss.)

[kool maudit]

As one of those rare Canadians who finds the Trump era exciting, I look forward to going to the US for Easter and talking current events with garrulous Americans.

While it was very nice to visit Canada for the first time in five years recently, I did not enjoy the sub-Gawker snark that passes for political comment.

Back on topic and less contrarily, I am not sure if I know anyone in Canada who hasn't been to the US, but I do notice a big difference in how oriented towards the US people are. It is almost as if there are "Canada Canadians" and "North America Canadians". I have also noticed that many Jewish Canadians in my circle seem to regard the border as less of a big deal, and the only friends I had who, for example, went to university in the US were from this community.

Of my Quebecois relatives, the ones who left Quebec went to the US and not English Canada, New York and North Carolina and California. I was in Toronto recently with a Quebecoise cousin who lives in Europe and I could tell she didn't "get" the place.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by vid

It's mostly the hassle of going over the border. They want to dig into people's electronic devices now, and I don't know if I need to see Duluth so badly that I'm willing to let a foreign country look at my phone.

I've never been to Duluth but it doesn't appear to be one of my first choice new places to go to.

For those who have stuff to hide on a phone, and if you're just heading over the border for the day, what about a burner/flip phone that doesn't really have much on it in terms of things for border security to look at.

I was born in the UK but picked up a Canadian accent in the formative years before moving back to the UK for a bit as a teen. With a UK birthplace in my passport and a Canadian passport I get a few looks by US customs guys especially at small land crossings. One US customs guy said to me 'say something UK ish'? I could have done my best Dick van Dyke cockney accent and I think he would have been impressed. I gave him my best Alan Partridge impression and we were on our way.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

As one of those rare Canadians who finds the Trump era exciting, I look forward to going to the US for Easter and talking current events with garrulous Americans.

While it was very nice to visit Canada for the first time in five years recently, I did not enjoy the sub-Gawker snark that passes for political comment.

You may be disappointed because the vast majority of Americans I've talked to in person act the same way. Just replace "Canada" with "blue State/city".

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by niwell

You may be disappointed because the vast majority of Americans I've talked to in person act the same way. Just replace "Canada" with "blue State/city".

I have only half-accepted the state of cold civil war that surrounds this presidency, honestly. I think there was a very real expectation that the world would change in such a manner as to naturally preclude paleo-right political styles from emerging. This is why people say things like "it's 2017"... there is this assumption of linearity.

Guys I've never beefed with here on SSP feel free to insult me over and over for rhetorically supporting a foreign leader I didn't and couldn't even vote for. It's a big thing. I mean, I remember the Bush era, but the sentiment then was that the bad guys had won.

The sense now is that the universe is somehow out of whack, and the guys aren't just bad, they're unimaginable. It's more than loss. It's a disruption of the natural order.

Nativist and paleoconservative ideas have been around for a long time, though. So it's not really unfamiliarity. It's this sense of usurpation.

[TorontoDrew]

About 1 in 25 people I know or cross paths with claim to have never been south of the border. Most are new Canadians, but every now and then it will be somebody from small town Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I have only half-accepted the state of cold civil war that surrounds this presidency, honestly. I think there was a very real expectation that the world would change in such a manner as to naturally preclude paleo-right political styles from emerging. This is why people say things like "it's 2017"... there is this assumption of linearity.

Guys I've never beefed with here on SSP feel free to insult me over and over for rhetorically supporting a foreign leader I didn't and couldn't even vote for. It's a big thing. I mean, I remember the Bush era, but the sentiment then was that the bad guys had won.

The sense now is that the universe is somehow out of whack, and the guys aren't just bad, they're unimaginable. It's more than loss. It's a disruption of the natural order.

Nativist and paleoconservative ideas have been around for a long time, though. So it's not really unfamiliarity. It's this sense of usurpation.

I'd surmise that this has been a rather traumatizing "this does not compute" episode for a lot of people.

In a binary political system like the U.S., people are accustomed to the notion of "alternation" (alternance) but I suspect most on the non-conservative side expected the pendulum couldn't swing any further away from them than the George W. Bush presidency.

And along came Trump.

I guess the other extreme of the scale might have been if Bernie Sanders had been the Democratic candidate and won the presidency. And even then...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I have only half-accepted the state of cold civil war that surrounds this presidency, honestly. I think there was a very real expectation that the world would change in such a manner as to naturally preclude paleo-right political styles from emerging. This is why people say things like "it's 2017"... there is this assumption of linearity.

Guys I've never beefed with here on SSP feel free to insult me over and over for rhetorically supporting a foreign leader I didn't and couldn't even vote for. It's a big thing. I mean, I remember the Bush era, but the sentiment then was that the bad guys had won.

The sense now is that the universe is somehow out of whack, and the guys aren't just bad, they're unimaginable. It's more than loss. It's a disruption of the natural order.

Nativist and paleoconservative ideas have been around for a long time, though. So it's not really unfamiliarity. It's this sense of usurpation.

The only upside I can see to the Trump administration is that it has interrupted the trend to rotating dynastic presidencies in the US... the Bushes, Clintons, Kennedys, that kind of thing.

But really, apart from that, do you really think that the general state of affairs in the US has improved since Trump was elected? If you are a hard-core right-wing nationalist or an extremely wealthy individual, I suppose it's possible. But that leaves out probably about 98% of the population.

Has the general state of affairs in the world generally improved? I suppose to governments in Russia and China it might appear so, I guess you could lump Israel in there too. Again, that's a fairly narrow band of interests.

I guess what it boils down to is that for all that words you've written on the subject, I have not seen anything that remotely approaches a persuasive argument for the good that is supposedly coming out of the Trump administration.