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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 4:26 PM
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They should replace the circle with a hammer and sickle.
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 5:03 PM
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Or an octagon. The number eight is good luck in China.
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 6:04 PM
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SO. CONSTRUCTION OH-HOLD OR RESUMED?
WHAT'S HAPPEND ON CONSTRUCTION SITE RIGHT NOW?

hey
who work in Jin Mao? there are need to install web camera
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 6:24 PM
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@ coth : a web cam would be great. Let's all write to the building company !
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 7:15 PM
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so, construction going or not?
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the tallest building in europe
East Tower: core - 11 levels (41,0m) / floorplates - 10 levels (37,2m)
West Tower: core - 62 levels (232,0m) / floorplates - 62 levels (232,0m)
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
so, construction going or not?
I think that the answer would be a yes.
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2004, 9:19 PM
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@ Aboveday : Very interesting insight information. Nice to have a chinese there to point out that political dimension to us faraway observers. We tend to be mainly obsessed by architecture or fantasies about the Science fiction touch of modern China towns. Nice buildings, incredible chinese economic dynamism that makes possible all those titanesque works, reminding us of the lost power of the western world. It's a long time we are told 21th century will be asian, and now we are in the 21th century... and we watch it happens.

On the other side I was wondering what chinese people themselves think of this construction boom. I am aware that many old houses are demolished to give room for endless estate speculation. The poors are sent to faraway suburbs while foreigners, rich and middle class people live in cities center new buildings. Capitalist way : social inegality, no respect for historical cultural patrimony, ecological concerns, etc... I'm afraid the government is focussing on this modern urban facade to hide misery elsewhere with the olympic games and Shanghai world expo deadlines in view. Nice poscards for western media, no matter the price for the people.


To come back to that circle polemic, I think that as would say Doctor Sigmund Freud, we always have to keep in mind that this circle is also just a circle... The chinese should perhaps exert sustained pressure on Japan to obtain the recognition of their war crimes towards Chinese during WW2. Unlike germans, most japanese tend to remember that period as victims, not criminals. For them, Hiroshima just means the atomic bomb (a shame the US president jumped on the occasion to test it, and twice), they don't want to know that there also was there a laboratory experimenting atrocities on corean prisoners, just like the nazis. Very few of them admit it, history books try to erase all these embarassing memories of WW2. So I do understand why the chinese people are so angry, but hating the building is not going to solve in anyway this political question.

And let's not forget the architect is american, not japanese. Let's remind what where the original intentions that led to the choice of this circle.

One was technical : to release wind pressure on the top of the building, a hole was nedeed.

A circle shaped hole has been choosen for symbolic reasons. This building grows from an horizontal square into a vertical circle. The architect intention was to say "from earth to sky"; given that in chinese cosmogony, the symbol for earth is a square and for sky is a circle. Nothing to do with the japanese flag.

The size of this circle is exactly the same than those of the Oriental Pearl spheres. It was intended as a contextual mirroring to unify Pudong skyline.

Therefore I totally disagree with the Fabb and JACKinNYC proposals for others symbols. The architect's original symbolic intentions must be kept untouched. Artists do not have to submit to political pressures of any sorts. This circle, as a mere form, is perfectly integrated into the fluidity of the building design. I think shanghaiese people should really enjoy this beautiful building.

Interpretation is really a very wide open field... New proposal : Try to imagine a drunken Homer Simpson in front of WFC : "Hmmm, a giant opener!"

Last edited by avcellvs; Mar 30, 2004 at 9:21 AM.
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2004, 8:38 AM
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Little Brother is watching U !



I saw a report on this Riyadh (Saudi) building. As for WFC, extreme desert winds made the hole necessary to relieve pressure on the top. The architect is not KDF but Ellerbe Becket. It was completed in 2002.

Last edited by avcellvs; Mar 30, 2004 at 9:32 AM.
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2004, 9:47 AM
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^There is hole in that building because the city has a height limit based on the floor count and not on the height.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2004, 10:05 AM
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There's a hole because that's how bottle openers work.
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2004, 10:10 AM
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ha, Moscow also has limit based on floor count. not upper 35 floors in historical center, 84 floors on periphery and unlim on downtown, but think what is a building with 4.2meters tall 35 floors - 150 meters, what not so bad
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West Tower: core - 62 levels (232,0m) / floorplates - 62 levels (232,0m)
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2004, 12:14 PM
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Any recent pictures? This is quite exciting now.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2004, 2:13 AM
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After seeing those pics....Now I do believes that the SWFC is U/C............
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2004, 2:24 AM
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I am still skeptic.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2004, 7:53 AM
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Regarding the top circle controversy, on KPF web you will find detailled explanations on the building design :

http://www.kpf.com/Projects/mori.htm

The building is rated as "under construction".
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2004, 8:03 AM
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The later pic I found (march 29th 04)

http://community.webshots.com/s/image11/1/30/12/129513012RvLYvT_fs.jpg

But weather is definitively too rainy to have a clear view on what's going on on the WFC plot and the JinMao is hiding part of it. The better possible shots would be from ground level or from the JinMao.

Anybody in Shanghai with a digital camera ?

Last edited by avcellvs; Apr 4, 2004 at 7:27 PM.
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2004, 12:17 PM
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Shortly before construction resumed. The WFC plot is totally empty, no circular path around the future building square base.



Full resolution pic : http://www.shanghaiguide.com/gallery...kyscrapers.jpg
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2004, 5:23 PM
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How could I miss this one ! This is no poscard but...
A march 20th pic, tourists just in front of the WFC plot.

http://community.webshots.com/s/image8/8/42/15/126784215tIIMBQ_ph.jpg

Full resolution pic : http://community.webshots.com/s/image8/8/42/15/126784215tIIMBQ_fs.jpg
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2004, 7:08 AM
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I can't wait to see this one start rising...
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2004, 8:01 AM
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A great find, avcellus! Those tourists must be Photoshopped out of there! BUT why are they still apparently working on the foundations (the red vertical crane)? I thought that was done. Next: a photo that actually shows people on the site!!!
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