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  #401  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2013, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
The question is will it look iconic, and not an eye sore?
Not really a question, because to build that large, developers must go through an approvals process that requires design approval. While that may sound like a good idea, the fact remains
that it will be up the judgment of someone else (city planning) as to what looks good. And we know how well that worked out for the Tower Verre.

But one thing you can be certain of, it won't look like this:










The images here are random massings from cpc...










And forget about anything like this...






It could be something that more closely resembles one of these towers...to the extent that it will be a more "iconic" looking tower...






Another thing that is promising about these towers in the rezoning is that public use is being encouraged for the tops of these towers, to make up for a lack of public space below.
A new observation deck is likely a reality.




http://main.aiany.org/eOCULUS/newsle...ng-up-density/

Quote:
Each speaker focused on a different aspect of urban density. James von Klemperer, FAIA, principal at Kohn Pedersen Fox Associates,
defined urban density as more than a formula of mass over volume, but rather as a calculation of a number of factors including communication, habitation, and circulation.

...The panelists also agreed that an essential way to develop hyperdense cities is to increase public amenities. According to Hoang,
if housing regulations are rewritten to shrink the size of apartments, the size of shared spaces must be increased.

Von Klemperer made a similar point, comparing the public spaces in One Vanderbilt, a proposed Midtown tower by KPF, to the hollow
structures of the heart. The “void spaces” in this building will act as a necessary counterpoint, or safety valve, that will receive the
outflow of increased density.
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Last edited by NYguy; Sep 21, 2013 at 9:19 PM.
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  #402  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2013, 11:10 PM
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I hope it has a spire or an excellent crown.

Those silver looking buildings with a moving elevator are very impressive unlike the others.
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  #403  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Eveningsong View Post
Those silver looking buildings with a moving elevator are very impressive unlike the others.
That rendering is filled with more detail, which helps. But it's also closer in concept to what will be built here, with a mix of public space throughout the building.
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  #404  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2013, 4:43 AM
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i still prefer this: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=grand...8.36,,0,-24.42

like it's such a shame seeing these majestic old buildings coming down when there are so many hundreds of potential development sites that would bring in even more money for the developer (cheaper to buy, cheaper to clear), just a little further away. truly hoping the midtown east zoning fails somehow and that the next decade and office space billions are instead spent building out the far west side. i'm guessing that in even just 10 years, most people will have caught up to the preservationists on this one.
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  #405  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2013, 12:18 PM
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With as many older buildings as the city has that will never be touched for various reasons, I do not think there is anything to get "caught up" on.
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  #406  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2013, 11:00 PM
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^ There isn't, at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by easy as pie View Post
like it's such a shame seeing these majestic old buildings coming down when there are so many hundreds of potential development sites that would bring in even more money for the developer (cheaper to buy, cheaper to clear), just a little further away.
I don't know exactly what these "hundreds" of potential sites are, but they would obviously still require demolition, and be further away from the transit center that is Grand Central. Not even the city is on board with demolishing "hundreds" of sights to build something new. The midtown east rezoning would result in very little demolition, all things considered, and there is a reason why the highest density concentration is around Grand Central.
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  #407  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2013, 11:21 PM
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the "hundreds" of sites are basically everything west of penn station, aside from a few historic streets and buildings. the city could add 10-15 million square feet of office space over the next decade without even touching a single building in midtown east, and build a third commercial pole in the process.
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  #408  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2013, 2:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easy as pie View Post
the "hundreds" of sites are basically everything west of penn station, aside from a few historic streets and buildings. the city could add 10-15 million square feet of office space over the next decade without even touching a single building in midtown east, and build a third commercial pole in the process.
thats not happening now with manhattan west and hudson yards?

this is in addition to westside redevelopment. its not one or the other.
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  #409  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by easy as pie View Post
the "hundreds" of sites are basically everything west of penn station, aside from a few historic streets and buildings.

"Everything west of Penn Station". Aside from a few historic streets and buildings. I hope you're not in city planning with that kind of thinking. West of Penn Station is the city's own Hudson Yards redevelopment, which will include 30 msf of office and residential space. Even there, we're not talking "hundreds" of sites, and they won't wipe the existing hood clear off the map.

Same thing here. There will be a relatively handful of buildings that can be built. There may be some skyline changing elements, but from the street? Manhattan will be the same as it is today basically, aside from the planned pedestrian improvements. There will be a few new towers mixed in among the old buildings that have stood for so long. Even those that aren't landmarked.
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  #410  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2013, 3:32 AM
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...773737398.html

Two May Get Jump on Midtown Plan
Developers in Line to Get Early Starts Under Rezoning Proposal Change.


September 29, 2013
By LAURA KUSISTO


Quote:
The Bloomberg administration has agreed to make changes to a major rezoning proposal for the area near Grand Central Terminal that could help two prominent developers get moving on their projects sooner than some competitors. The City Planning Commission is set to vote Monday on a proposal to rezone the area around Grand Central Terminal to allow developers to build bigger office towers than those allowed under current rules.

The late changes to the controversial plan address its key "sunrise" provision that blocks developers from taking advantage of the rezoning for four years. Planners think the delay is important to prevent the Midtown East projects from competing with office towers under way at Hudson Yards on Manhattan's West Side and the World Trade Center.

But the new wording would allow a couple of high-profile projects in Midtown East to move forward sooner.

SL Green Realty Corp. would be able to get a one-year jump start on its new office tower planned between 42nd and 43rd streets on the block just west of Grand Central. SL Green officials have told the planning commission they would benefit from an early start because they plan to make significant and time-consuming improvements to pedestrian access to Grand Central.

Also, the changes would help David Levinson of L&L Holding Co., who's planning to build a Norman Foster-designed office tower at 425 Park Ave. Mr. Levinson plans to break ground in the spring of 2015 regardless of whether the rezoning passes.

Under the current zoning, he would have to leave the steel skeleton of the bottom 25% of the existing 1950s building in place to maximize the development's size. The proposed new rules would allow Mr. Levinson to fully raze the current building and build a structure that's roughly 15% larger.

Mr. Levinson has argued that buildings like his that sit on smaller sites should be able to move forward more quickly because they don't compete with the mega-towers planned for Hudson Yards. Compared with the huge projects on the West Side and downtown, the floors of his building will be "a half to a third of the size and double the rent," at about $160 a square foot, he said.

Planning officials said the two developers effectively made their cases. The modifications are "well-founded in the thoughtful and substantive testimony we heard in the public review process," said Michael Shilstone, a spokesman for the planning department. "These potential modifications to the sunrise provision would continue to protect ongoing development in Hudson Yards and Lower Manhattan."

The wording changes don't mention the L&L Holding or SL Green developments specifically, and other developers also may apply to build projects under the rezoning. But those two developers are by far the most public about wanting to move forward with their projects.

One of the proposed modifications would allow buildings on sites under 30,000 square feet to move forward as soon as the rezoning passes. Mr. Levinson's site is about 28,000 square feet.

Given its prominent site, SL Green is considered likely to apply for a special permit that enables developers to apply to the city for additional development rights. Under the proposed modifications, those buildings would be eligible for construction permits up to a year before the rezoning kicks in if they're making significant upgrades to transit infrastructure and the city deems they need extra time.
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  #411  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2013, 5:32 PM
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No surprise here, now its on to the Council for final approval, where there could be more changes.


http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2013...ing-commission

East Midtown Rezoning Plan Approved by City Planning Commission





By Alan Neuhauser
September 30, 2013


Quote:
The proposal to overhaul East Midtown's aging business district to allow for new, larger skyscrapers moved one step closer to becoming reality Monday.

The City Planning Commission overwhelmingly approved the Bloomberg administration's application to rezone 73 blocks around Grand Central Terminal, voting 11-0 with one recusal and one abstention.

The measure that would allow buildings with greater density, higher ceilings and wider floors now heads to the City Council, which has until the end of November to vote on it.

"If we are to continue to have a world-class district with top-tier, state-of-the-art office space, we need to change the zoning — but carefully," Commission chairwoman Amanda Burden said. "This proposal...will allow East Midtown to usher in the next generation of state-of-the-art and competitive office space, and to ensure that the district maintains its vital role in support of the city’s economy."


http://untappedcities.com/2013/08/06...han-you-think/

NYC’s East Midtown Rezoning Plan: Why It’s Better than You Think





by julia vitullo-martin
August 13, 2013


Quote:
Many of the sleek Modernist buildings in which the advertising “Mad Men” toiled decades ago are now shabby and tired, their once glamorous tenants dispersed to neighborhoods to the west and south. The advertising industry has been gone from Madison Avenue for so long—its exodus started in the early 1970s—that only people of a certain age automatically understood the play on words behind the title of the smash hit “Mad Men.”

Indeed, much of East Midtown is aging badly. Of its 400 buildings, some 300 are more than 50 years old. Even those with handsome limestone exteriors that look good from the outside tend to have overly small interior spaces, low ceilings, and out-of-date mechanicals. The now mostly dreary post-war Modernist buildings have the same problems—but without the handsome exteriors.

Yet Midtown is not only the largest commercial district in the country, it is New York City’s historic core. As urban economist John Alschuler, the New York-based chairman of HR&A Advisors, says, “No city is better than its primary location. You can’t let your core decline and expect that other neighborhoods will make up for it.”

If there’s one thing that nearly all of today’s urbanists agree it’s that transit-oriented-development is good: cities should encourage development at their transit hubs. Yet the Bloomberg administration’s proposal to do just that by giving extra density to developers in East Midtown has been met by explosive criticism by those who generally position themselves as TOD advocates. The New York Times, for example, assailed the rezoning for “adding a small army of new skyscrapers around the elegant Grand Central Station.”

That’s not actually what the rezoning would do—there would be no small army, just a handful of towers—but isn’t the very essence of Grand Central Terminal to be a transit hub? And shouldn’t we want far more development at that hub than New York had 100 years ago when it was built?

.....But what about the current urban fabric, the many likable, good-looking, but architecturally unrenowned pre-war buildings that now stand on so many blocks? Most will be untouched by the new zoning, though some of the large ones, including those long slated for redevelopment, will qualify. S. L. Green, for example, is planning a tower to be designed by Kohn Pedersen Fox at the corner of Vanderbilt and 42nd Street. Personally, I love the current building (though the commenters on Curbed call it mediocre and boring), but I recognize that no top corporate tenant—which is what GCT should be attracting—would dream of moving into such an obsolete building, however pretty. If any corner should be primed for TOD, it’s the one opposite Grand Central. And, under Bloomberg’s DIB, Green will pay a minimum of $32 million into the fund, and some $150 million should it decide to opt for maximum density.

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  #412  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2013, 10:22 PM
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To see towers built in this area will be truly amazing. Here's to hoping for great designs.
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  #413  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2013, 11:46 PM
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To see towers built in this area will be truly amazing. Here's to hoping for great designs.
They'd better be great if they want approval.
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  #414  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2013, 1:04 AM
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^True. :'/ Then we can hope that they get built fast and tall.
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  #415  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2013, 4:10 AM
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^ I don't know about fast, but this one at least should be able to begin earlier than otherwise would be allowed (there is a sunrise provision in the rezoning that does not allow the largest towers to begin before July 2017).


Some text from the rezoning that was approved today:






As it relates to potential design and public spaces, both below and above:





That could make for a more "soaring" design here.






Some form of public space on the upper floors is always welcome. We see what KPF has done with the deck at Related's Hudson Yards,
can't wait to see what they will do here.


There's also the possibility of some residential space at the top, though I don't know if that will be the case here.
This is a recommendation that was added to the rezoning, which now allows some buildings up to 40% residential.



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  #416  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2013, 4:00 PM
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Based on the current height war on 57th street, I'm thinking this could potentially exceed 1450 ft to the roof/structural top...
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  #417  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2013, 8:25 PM
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^I hope so :|
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  #418  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2013, 9:41 PM
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Why do I seei my mind starchitects from near and far hitting the ground running with designs for this area?
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  #419  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2013, 12:08 AM
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Why do I seei my mind starchitects from near and far hitting the ground running with designs for this area?
This is the city's top business district, where there hasn't really been anything new built in decades (other than a handful of new buildings). It will be easier when the rezoning goes into effect, and there are more developers with property here than on the west side. And to get the largest buildings built, great architecture will need to be presented.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gramsjdg View Post
Based on the current height war on 57th street, I'm thinking this could potentially exceed 1450 ft to the roof/structural top...
I'm not expecting it to break that roof height, but I do expect some type of large crown or spire to break the ESB's 1,454 ft total height. So yeah, this could beat Nordstrom's height. But stay tuned, there's a lot that could happen between now and then, other towers that could be revealed.
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  #420  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2013, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

I'm not expecting it to break that roof height, but I do expect some type of large crown or spire to break the ESB's 1,454 ft total height. So yeah, this could beat Nordstrom's height. But stay tuned, there's a lot that could happen between now and then, other towers that could be revealed.
I was thinking the same. A large spire or even crown comparable to a 21st Crystler or ESB. I would rather have a kick ass design over height especially in a very noticeable portion of the skyline. But.... time will tell. Mabye they will take advantage of the situation of Bloomberg leaving and hurry its release.
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