PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Jonboy1983]

What is that new hotel going to be? I'm sure it's been posted numerous times already, but I apparently either forgot or I just don't know...

[Zachary R. English]

Hello, everyone. I've been reading this thread since it was started, but I finally decided to join in. Moved to Pittsburgh a few years ago and fell in love with this town.

I was down by Southside Works on Monday and snapped a few pictures you might like.



Workers cutting windows into the South facing wall of the former Goodwill Headquarters building.



And a completely blah new building planned for a currently vacant lot at 28th and Sidney within Southside works. I like the current mural-ed fence there more than this...

So, glad to be here. Cheers.

[Zachary R. English]

Well, that's a fine start for me...

I'll try to figure out how to actually post images and try this again...

[daviderik]

Welcome to te thread Zachary. And a be-lated welcome to Pittsburgh! Where did you move from? Southside is a great part of town. Really booming with new development, new people, new life mixed with the old. Thanks for the Pics. I remember as a kid driving down carson street from becks run. It was just a wall of an old steel mill. Went on for a mile until you got to where south side works is now. J&L I think?

[Zachary R. English]

Thank you. I'm from South Jersey, down by the Delaware Bay. Spent a great deal of my life in NYC and Philly. Moved here about two and a half years ago. I'm actually quite impressed with Southside Works and the whole area was abuzz with construction. Wish I had known Monday that the new Riverfront Park down there was complete. Going back soon to check that out.

Are you guys aware that, in addition to the 5th Ave High School lofts, the Shanahan building behind it (currently a storage facility), at the corner of Miltenberger St and Forbes Ave, is being converted into apartments? The construction fences went up about a week ago. I have high hopes for Uptown... I work there and will soon live there, so maybe it's just wishful thinking...

[novaCJ]

Yep. J and L. What was left of the mill was torn down to allow SouthSide Works to be built.
And welcome, both of you, Zachary and daviderik to the forum. I don't currently live in Pittsburgh, but lived near the city when I was a very young child, and had very good memories of my time there. I re-visited the place a few years back and fell in love again. I also had followed SSP for a few years before finally joining in January.

Not having checked up on this thread for a while (er, not procrastinated enough), I like what I'm seeing. That Riverfront Park looks quite nice, it's great to see that finally complete.
Empty lots in general tend to drive me mad, so a building is (generally) better looking than no building to my eyes. While the building for that empty lot is a bit bland, it seems to serve it's purpose fairly well, and has decent street-level interaction, while completing the look and feel of the intersection. Besides, it's on a side street, farther back in the development, so I wouldn't have expected the Sistine Chapel or anything at that location anyway.

Uptown and the Hill are, in my opinion, the next areas to 'rise', so to speak. Now that something is finally happening to the Civic Arena site, and the new Pens arena is done, there should be some momentum to get the development ball rolling in those areas. I really hope Uptown is developed within a reasonable time, it could be absolutely amazing if done right.

[BrianTH]

In addition to the Fifth Avenue HS and Shanahan Bakery (Action Housing) projects, there is also the Oakland Portal apartment project (terrible exterior design, but still) and a proposed seven-story infill apartment project:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...oposed-304243/

So, no doubt, the Uptown/Bluff corridor is becoming a major hotbed of residential projects, and I think it is likely that many more are to come, given that the Fifth Avenue HS project appears to be pre-leasing very well:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fifth-...08955792458565

By the way, random comment, but I was struck the other day about how many infill opportunities there are between Forbes and Fifth in the blocks roughly across from Consol (despite those blocks being relatively intact for Uptown). And if you are interested in glimpsing, in a relatively unvarnished way, some of Pittsburgh's architectural history, I highly recommend a walk down Watson Street for at least a few blocks starting from the Downtown side (this is the almost alley-like street between Forbes and Fifth).

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

In addition to the Fifth Avenue HS and Shanahan Bakery (Action Housing) projects, there is also the Oakland Portal apartment project (terrible design, but still) and a proposed seven-story infill apartment project:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...oposed-304243/

So, no doubt, the Uptown/Bluff corridor is becoming a major hotbed of residential projects, and I think it is likely that many more are to come, given that the Fifth Avenue HS project appears to be pre-leasing very well:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fifth-...08955792458565

An area with enormous potential for redevelopment to become among the coolest, vibrant, most desirable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh's core. That's what this area SHOULD be when looking at the location, transit ease between downtown, Oakland, AND the Southside, and institutions present right in the neighborhood -- Duquesne and Mercy.

However... and there's always a however to deal with. I think it's been mentioned on here before... the presence of that concrete plant at the base of the neighborhood/Birmingham Bridge seriously impedes quality redevelopment in the eastern end of the neighborhood, and as a result diminishes the potential for the neighborhood and that whole corridor overall.

I think it should be a huge redevelopment priority for the city to get that plant moved out of there. The thing is, it doesn't need to be there at all. There are plenty of spots along the course of the Mon that would be more appropriate and it wouldn't cost that mush to move them -- considering the infrastructure is readily portable. It's not like a factory... it's piles of sand and gravel and stand alone mechanical equipment.

It's a dust and dirt producer for the uptown neighborhood and really keeps property values down and will keep the neighborhood permanently "ghetto" from Jumonville St east. Moving it out of there not only instantly improves redevelopment prospects for the neighborhood, but also allows 2nd Ave to become an attractive riverside parkway, rather than the dump truck-filled, dirty no-mans land that it is at the present. I see a recreational riverfront park (think Hudson River Park in Manhattan) extending under the Birm. Bridge with pedestrian and bike access from Uptown and connecting with the "Jail Trail".

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

An area with enormous potential for redevelopment to become among the coolest, vibrant, most desirable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh's core. That's what this area SHOULD be when looking at the location, transit ease between downtown, Oakland, AND the Southside, and institutions present right in the neighborhood -- Duquesne and Mercy.

However... and there's always a however to deal with. I think it's been mentioned on here before... the presence of that concrete plant at the base of the neighborhood/Birmingham Bridge seriously impedes quality redevelopment in the eastern end of the neighborhood, and as a result diminishes the potential for the neighborhood and that whole corridor overall.

I think it should be a huge redevelopment priority for the city to get that plant moved out of there. The thing is, it doesn't need to be there at all. There are plenty of spots along the course of the Mon that would be more appropriate and it wouldn't cost that mush to move them -- considering the infrastructure is readily portable. It's not like a factory... it's piles of sand and gravel and stand alone mechanical equipment.

It's a dust and dirt producer for the uptown neighborhood and really keeps property values down and will keep the neighborhood permanently "ghetto" from Jumonville St east. Moving it out of there not only instantly improves redevelopment prospects for the neighborhood, but also allows 2nd Ave to become an attractive riverside parkway, rather than the dump truck-filled, dirty no-mans land that it is at the present. I see a recreational riverfront park (think Hudson River Park in Manhattan) extending under the Birm. Bridge with pedestrian and bike access from Uptown and connecting with the "Jail Trail".

I think you're absolutely correct on this one, Private Dick. No doubt, that concrete plant makes it really difficult to do anything with the east side of the Bluff/Uptown area, especially because of the dust created by it. And yes, it makes 2nd Ave. pretty much an eyesore in the area as well. I'd love to see 2nd become more of a parkway, or hell, at least do some paving and a little landscaping along the route!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[TBone7281]

Originally Posted by glowrock

And yes, it makes 2nd Ave. pretty much an eyesore in the area as well. I'd love to see 2nd become more of a parkway, or hell, at least do some paving and a little landscaping along the route!

Have you been on 2nd lately? There are potholes that could swallow a car.

[Jonboy1983]

If I may throw in my 2cents regarding 2nd Avenue, I too would like to see this corridor evolve into something else. That concrete place isn't doing that corridor any justice, and I agree that there are other more suitable places around the city that can accomodate that better. It would be nice to see a park-like boulevard or parkway become of 2nd Avenue and extend all the way from Downtown to Hazelwood and become part of the whole LTV site redevelopment.

I'm actually working in sketchup doing some design work for how I'd like the Crosstown/Blvd of the Allies/2nd Avenue corridor to look. From my experience there, that whole thing is a traffic nightmare. Coming down Blvd of the Allies from Oakland, you either access the Liberty Bridge or the Crosstown Blvd to access Downtown by the 7th Avenue offramp or the Hill/Civic Arena by the Centre Avenue offramp. Or, the Veterans Bridge or Bigelow Blvd. In my design, I'd remove the on/off ramps from the Liberty Bridge and drop the Blvd down to the elevation of the thru traffic between the bridge and Crosstown. The elevated portion of crosstown would be eliminated and be returned to grade with Forbes and Fifth Avenues right smack in between Downtown and the Lower Hill, which IMO would render the ramps to Centre and 7th redundant. Even still, I would think that such an undertaking would create additional taxable parcels within Downtown that would have quite a bit of value associated with them...

[TBone7281]

Lot 24 - 5/3/12

[Jonboy1983]

Wow, that's starting to go up rather quickly.

I'm curious. I was looking at Google Earth. Granted the imagery is rather old, but what are/were they doing with the open lot behind the Grant Building?

I have another question. When and why was 564 Forbes Avenue built? Is that a county office building? I see that it's on top of a restricted parking garage.

[Minivan Werner]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

:
I'm curious. I was looking at Google Earth. Granted the imagery is rather old, but what are/were they doing with the open lot behind the Grant Building?

It was going to be a 6 story hotel (a Hilton Garden Inn I think). Don't think that's in the cards any longer, since a HGI is going in at Market Square now anyway. I'd have rather seen something taller there, and more modern.

[BrianTH]

It is now being used as a government parking lot (and, random comment, it was where they dropped off the pieces of the new BNY-Mellon sign before they were lifted).

Although that particular hotel project appears to be dead, I'd love to see another hotel or residential project use that space. With PMC redoing the Robin Civic Building as apartments, you could have the basis of a cool little mixed-use subneighborhood in the former Chinatown.

Edit: Oh, and 564 Forbes, aka the Manor Building, is a private office building. I think it was built in the 1950s and recently renovated.

[daviderik]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is now being used as a government parking lot (and, random comment, it was where they dropped off the pieces of the new BNY-Mellon sign before they were lifted).

Although that particular hotel project appears to be dead, I'd love to see another hotel or residential project use that space. With PMC redoing the Robin Civic Building as apartments, you could have the basis of a cool little mixed-use subneighborhood in the former Chinatown.

Edit: Oh, and 564 Forbes, aka the Manor Building, is a private office building. I think it was built in the 1950s and recently renovated.

I thought chinatown was near the 10th street bridge? (for somw reason I thouht that). Are you saying Pittsburgh dosen't have it anymore?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by daviderik

I thought chinatown was near the 10th street bridge? (for somw reason I thouht that). Are you saying Pittsburgh dosen't have it anymore?

Pittsburgh's Chinatown was around Boulevard of the Allies/Second Avenue east of Grant (the building of the Boulevard ramp helped hasten its downfall). Aside from a couple restaurants and facades, there really isn't anything left to distinguish it as a Chinatown.

Edit: Nice article on this subject:

http://old.post-gazette.com/lifestyl...town1209p1.asp

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by TBone7281

Have you been on 2nd lately? There are potholes that could swallow a car.

Yes, I've definitely been on 2nd lately... I use it all the time to get back to my place in the South Side Slopes from downtown. And yes, I know there are potholes that could swallow at least a tire, if not a car!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Jonboy1983]

I'd also like to see something else go in there that would be taller; more dense than the 7-story Hilton Garden Inn myself. And, regarding the short-lived Chinatown, it really is a shame how several decades of backwards urban planning has set Pittsburgh back. If you ask me, building the Boulevard the way they built it really was not one of the smartest things this city did. It's confusing to navigate and is a bit of a bottleneck at rush-hour in my experiences with it.

I always wondered why they built 564 Forbes along with the "oversized" parking garage. I've always wondered what the original southern bore to the subway tunnel looked like, and that monstrosity shrowds it.

I'm just saying that this whole area of town could have been planned a little better, but I guess it's a moot argument; not to mention a rather exhausted one at that. Plus, it truely is a shame that the Boulevard helped trigger the demise of Chinatown. I think someone posted this before, but where do most of the Chinese reside now? I'm thinking there's a pocket of them in the Strip and another out in East Liberty(?)

Could another one emerge at some point?

[BrianTH]

So what you are seeing in that area, with Second Avenue, Boulevard of the Allies, and I-376, is a layering of successive attempts to answer the same basic desire, namely providing an express automobile "bypass" between Oakland and Downtown. None of those efforts has been entirely satisfactory, and arguably the very idea was ill-conceived (e.g., perhaps just a decent street grid in Uptown plus a subway would have been a better approach). But in any event, that is the origin of the manifest confusion of road infrastructure in that part of town.

The only area I am aware of with a decent concentration of East Asian people is the East End university neighborhoods--otherwise they are pretty dispersed these days. So I doubt we are likely to recreate a Chinatown in the original sense.

But I've been impressed with the success of The Cultural District, and I think Downtown could benefit from branding more subneighborhoods. Walking around it definitely feels like there is an intuitively plausible subneighborhood in that area--call it roughly Fourth to First and Grant to the T. And personally, I think branding it as "Chinatown", even though that is a purely historical nod at this point, could be pretty cool. And who knows--maybe another China-related business or two could be coaxed to locate there.