Why is York Region so expensive?

[Docere]

Taking up a bit of a drift from another thread.

York Region is the most expensive in terms of housing among Toronto's "regions"; I believe Richmond Hill is the most expensive of the GTA municipalities. Yet it doesn't have Oakville "prestige" or incomes; on paper southern York region appears to have Pickering-like incomes with Oakville-like housing prices (of course the aggregate "person" rarely exists).

One reason suggested for the disparity is that people in York are more flashy but heavily in debt. Durham Region in contrast has a lot of unionized blue collar city workers with good incomes.

You can see in the stats though that in terms of occupations and income, York/Halton and Richmond Hill/Oakville are similar.

A likely possibility too is that York has a lot of immigrant wealth (and more multigenerational and extended households etc.) that hasn't yet translated into high Canadian incomes. There may also be a bit of a premium to live in an ethnic enclave (Italian, Jewish, Chinese, Iranian etc.) York may have more rental and low income housing available than Halton and Durham.

One caveat that was also pointed out is that while southern York may have higher housing prices than the city of Toronto, it is cheaperr than much of North York to which it is adjacent.

[Docere]

In some ways, York is the GTA's New Jersey to Halton's Connecticut.

New Jersey has more immigrant, ethnic and techie wealth, while Connecticut is more WASPy and appeals to bankers.

[Innsertnamehere]

There is very little lower income housing in York region. Peel and Durham have the most.

But yea, York region is expensive because it's overwhelmingly large houses and a lot of immigrant money. It is also very central in the GTA meaning you can access almost the entire job market.

I find Vaughan and Richmond hill to be more expensive that huge swaths of Toronto including much of the old city. There is plenty of detached housing stock in Toronto for under a million as starting homes, and very, very little of that in Vaughan.

Northern York Region returns to sanity though. Newmarket has surprisingly reasonable house prices, but anywhere south (Aurora, king city) and you are paying through your nose.

[Docere]

Vaughan is more expensive than Dufferin and St. Clair and most of the borough of York, yes.

Italians moved out of that area and into Vaughan was because they got wealthier, not because they "cashed out."

[memph]

Originally Posted by Docere

Vaughan is more expensive than Dufferin and St. Clair and most of the borough of York, yes.

Italians moved out of that area and into Vaughan was because they got wealthier, not because they "cashed out."

I'm not convinced that there's much of a difference between Dufferin-St Clair and Vaughan when you adjust for housing sizes though. I would even say Vaughan is a bit cheaper.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...alia-Davenport
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...ellore-Village
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...ellore-Village

The Vaughan house definitely looks bigger than the one on Caledonia Rd, despite being for sale for $10k less.

[Docere]

Maybe, but the houses are generally a lot bigger in Vaughan.

I don't think anybody decided to move to Vaughan on the grounds that Corso Italia and Caledonia are too expensive.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Northern York Region returns to sanity though. Newmarket has surprisingly reasonable house prices, but anywhere south (Aurora, king city) and you are paying through your nose.

Another possibility is that maybe people in Aurora and Newmarket or Oakville or Burlington (more anglo Canadian) are more likely to have cottages than people in southern York region.

The "going to the cottage" phenomenon seems to be more of an anglo Canadian (and Jewish) thing, in my experience.

[manny_santos]

Virtually everyone I've ever known who lives in York Region is extremely wealthy and has endless money to throw around. Several of my coworkers are from there and they have no idea what it's like to worry about budgeting, as their parents provide them with everything they need.

Newmarket and Vaughan do have low-income and even homeless populations, but they are far less obvious than they are in Toronto.

[Docere]

The wealthiest family (one of the GTA's biggest land developers) I know lives in Vaughan. So yeah, there certainly is a lot of money there in certain pockets.

[Innsertnamehere]

half of the GTA's development industry is based out of Vaughan.

And agreed on the cottage being an Aglo Canadian thing. There is a ton of minority wealth in Toronto allowing minorities to own cottages, but when you visit Huntsville in July its as white as a french flag of surrender. Minorities appear to tend to spend it on real estate within the GTA. Minorities buy a $1.2 million home in Markham, anglo's of the same income seem more likely to drop $800,000 on a home in Newmarket and $400,000 on a cottage in Haliburton.

[Loco101]

Interesting how you see cottages as an "anglo" thing.

I live in Northern Ontario and cottages (also known as camps here) are popular with anglophones and francophones. Also a lot of people from Italian background have them here. And we do have quite a few people with Italian roots. Same goes for Finnish and many others who have origins from different European countries. Although we don't have large visible minority groups I don't know of any who have cottages here which seems to be the same as down South. Some aboriginals here have cottages but most are more likely to have remote camps.

I wasn't expecting housing to be cheap in York Region but I'm surprised that it is so much. What is the travel time to downtown T.O. compared to other places in the GTA? Vaughan is also getting the TTC subway line extended into it as well right?

[Doady]

Originally Posted by Docere

One caveat that was also pointed out is that while southern York may have higher housing prices than the city of Toronto, it is cheaperr than much of North York to which it is adjacent.

Toronto's inner suburbs and North York in particular have some of the poorest neighourhoods in the entire GTA. Not sure why you are surprised by this.

Mississauga is more expensive than Etobicoke too. Mississauga is also more expensive than York Region. I don't see what is unusual about York Region compared to the rest of the GTA.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Doady

Toronto's inner suburbs and North York in particular have some of the poorest neighourhoods in the entire GTA. Not sure why you are surprised by this.

Mississauga is more expensive than Etobicoke too. Mississauga is also more expensive than York Region. I don't see what is unusual about York Region compared to the rest of the GTA.

Huh? Mississauga is not more expensive than southern York Region and most of central and southern North York is more expensive than York Region.

[memph]

Yeah, I would say that Southern York is about 25% more expensive* than Mississauga. Also Mississauga is only more expensive than North Etobicoke, if you're comparing Mississauga and Etobicoke south of Eglinton Ave, Etobicoke is similar if not slightly more expensive*.

*cost for the same housing type, same quality, same size, just different location

[Doady]

Originally Posted by Docere

Huh? Mississauga is not more expensive than southern York Region and most of central and southern North York is more expensive than York Region.

You were wondering out loud why York Region is more expensive than North York, and now you act incredulous at me for repeating what you just said? I can see discussing anything with you is a waste of time. So I won't.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Doady

You were wondering out loud why York Region is more expensive than North York, and now you act incredulous at me for repeating what you just said? I can see discussing anything with you is a waste of time. So I won't.

In the OP I said: while southern York may have higher housing prices than the city of Toronto, it is cheaperr [sic.] than much of North York to which it is adjacent.

So I never "wondered out loud why York Region is more expensive than North York." I said the opposite.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Interesting how you see cottages as an "anglo" thing.

I live in Northern Ontario and cottages (also known as camps here) are popular with anglophones and francophones. Also a lot of people from Italian background have them here. And we do have quite a few people with Italian roots. Same goes for Finnish and many others who have origins from different European countries. Although we don't have large visible minority groups I don't know of any who have cottages here which seems to be the same as down South. Some aboriginals here have cottages but most are more likely to have remote camps.

I wasn't expecting housing to be cheap in York Region but I'm surprised that it is so much. What is the travel time to downtown T.O. compared to other places in the GTA? Vaughan is also getting the TTC subway line extended into it as well right?

Really I should correct it to say that it is a Caucasian thing. Italian, Jewish, whatever.

[Docere]

I recall a good number of Jewish Torontonians cottaging when I was growing up. An earlier generation went mostly to Lake Simcoe because Muskoka was "restricted."

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Docere

An earlier generation went mostly to Lake Simcoe because Muskoka was "restricted."

How long ago was that? Nowadays Jewish Canadians are disproportionately part of the uppermost classes.. funny to think that it was really not that long ago that they were one of the poorest.

[memph]

There's more of a break in development between Woodbridge/Maple and NW Toronto too. NW Toronto was mostly developed in the 60s with the last major housing developments in the early or maybe late 70s, and Woodbridge and Maple only started seeing a boom in suburban housing in the mid to late 80s. With Thornhill, Richmond Hill and Markham, it was more of a continuous wave of development spilling over from Toronto into York Region.