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  #441  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2018, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BlaineN View Post
Agree. Pettersson looks good, but not generational. McDavid is generational.

Not every talent should measure up to McDavid. This Pettersson kids is serious business.
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  #442  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2018, 11:11 PM
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Not every talent should measure up to McDavid. This Pettersson kids is serious business.
He looks good, but we're only 15 games into the season, and he has 15 points (23rd in the league), with 5 of those coming last night. Prior to last night he was 80th on the scoring list. We're a long ways from generational.

McDavid has already played three seasons and has been a scoring champ and hart trophy winner. I'm not saying Petersson won't be great but 15 games in doesn't make a player generational, not even a superstar/allstar. You need at least one season just to be an allstar. Repeat that next season and you're in the superstar realm. Mikka Rantanen looks great leading the league in scoring, so does Mackinnon. Mackinnon, and I think MacKinnon is in the allstar category right now.

Last edited by BlaineN; Nov 3, 2018 at 11:21 PM.
     
     
  #443  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2018, 11:24 PM
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I'm wondering what that threshold a player has to cross to be considered generational?

I'm hearing Pettersson being compared to Pavel Datsyuk by knowledgeable hockey people, so he apparently has a good 200 foot game, and, although it's only 9 games, he's shown a good potential to be a 100 point scorer (given 82 games). He's arguably the best offensive talent to ever come out of Sweden, based on his SHL season where he broke longstanding records. In my mind Pettersson is near generational or better. He's at least on par with Auston Matthews.

There's a hilarious Pettersson vs Matthews thread going in HF Boards right now.

Last edited by logan5; Nov 3, 2018 at 11:51 PM.
     
     
  #444  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 2:20 AM
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That’s it boys. All Canadian teams in the playoffs or bust.
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  #445  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
I'm wondering what that threshold a player has to cross to be considered generational?

I'm hearing Pettersson being compared to Pavel Datsyuk by knowledgeable hockey people, so he apparently has a good 200 foot game, and, although it's only 9 games, he's shown a good potential to be a 100 point scorer (given 82 games). He's arguably the best offensive talent to ever come out of Sweden, based on his SHL season where he broke longstanding records. In my mind Pettersson is near generational or better. He's at least on par with Auston Matthews.

There's a hilarious Pettersson vs Matthews thread going in HF Boards right now.
Like I say he looks very promising, but I think people are jumping the gun. Give it a couple of seasons, not 9 games before deciding he's the best offensive player to come out of Sweden, or that he's near generational. I wouldn't compare him to Auston Matthews yet. Give a season at least.

Comparisons of players by knowledgeable hockey people are a dime a dozen, as knowledgeable hockey are always making comparisons. I've heard hundreds of comparisons that never panned out over time. It reminds me of Kristian Huselius when he first joined the league and scored 10 goals in his first 10 games. I remember a commentator saying he was the best offensive talent he'd seen out of Sweden. I'm sure Pettersson will be better, but the point is there's lots of season left, and more seasons after that.
     
     
  #446  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 6:52 AM
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That’s it boys. All Canadian teams in the playoffs or bust.
I'm betting the Habs and Canucks will regress 20 games in. The Flames are a question mark, the Oilers will be "meh", and the Jets and Leafs will fight for a wildcard spot. (I couldn't be bothered with the Sens.) I may be wrong, though.
     
     
  #447  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 11:39 AM
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I'm wondering what that threshold a player has to cross to be considered generational?
Changing the game of hockey makes you generational. Being the best player in your generation (80s= Gretzky, 90s=Lemieux, 00s=Crosby/Ovechkin, 10s=McDavid).

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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
I'm hearing Pettersson being compared to Pavel Datsyuk by knowledgeable hockey people, so he apparently has a good 200 foot game, and, although it's only 9 games, he's shown a good potential to be a 100 point scorer (given 82 games).
He can be compared to him, I suppose, but I can't imagine Petterssen goes out and wins four Lady Byngs and three Selkes.

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He's arguably the best offensive talent to ever come out of Sweden, based on his SHL season where he broke longstanding records.
I'd be surprised if he ends up being better than Peter Forsberg.

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In my mind Pettersson is near generational or better. He's at least on par with Auston Matthews.
It's way too early to even be discussing this possibility. This hype train has fully gone off the rails at this point.

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There's a hilarious Pettersson vs Matthews thread going in HF Boards right now.
Ah yes, HFBoards, the utmost pinnacle of hockey knowledge and expertise. (He says, unironcially, whilst posting on an urban design/skyscraper forum)

Last edited by JHikka; Nov 4, 2018 at 11:51 AM.
     
     
  #448  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Firebrand View Post
I'm betting the Habs and Canucks will regress 20 games in. The Flames are a question mark, the Oilers will be "meh", and the Jets and Leafs will fight for a wildcard spot. (I couldn't be bothered with the Sens.) I may be wrong, though.
If the Leafs are fighting for a wildcard spot you're saying you think one of Montreal, Buffalo, or Ottawa is going to supplant them for 3rd place in the Atlantic.
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  #449  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Firebrand View Post
I'm betting the Habs and Canucks will regress 20 games in. The Flames are a question mark, the Oilers will be "meh", and the Jets and Leafs will fight for a wildcard spot. (I couldn't be bothered with the Sens.) I may be wrong, though.
I doubt the Leafs will be fighting for a wildcard spot. It's early in the season, but I think the way the standings are today is going to be close to how the season finishes The Leafs will linmp a bit until Matthews gets back, but will get back on track. Oilers and Flames will be decent. If the Flames could get good goaltending they could be a force, they've got good skaters up front and are outplaying their opponents most nights.

Last edited by BlaineN; Nov 4, 2018 at 4:17 PM.
     
     
  #450  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post

It's way too early to even be discussing this possibility. This hype train has fully gone off the rails at this point.

Ah yes, HFBoards, the utmost pinnacle of hockey knowledge and expertise. (He says, unironcially, whilst posting on an urban design/skyscraper forum)
My thoughts exactly. I get Pettersson is going to be good, but the hype about him is kind of laughable actually. I mean geez, he's played 9 games. Before his game the other night where he got 5 points, he was 82nd in league point leaders. As for best offensive Swedish player ever, he's a ways off yet. Peter Forsberg, Mats Sundin, the Sedins, even Mats Naslund Markus Naslund and Gabriel Landeskog are still ahead. Landeskog who's barely ever mentioned by anyone is ahead right now.
     
     
  #451  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 6:56 PM
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I get Pettersson is going to be good, but the hype about him is kind of laughable actually. I mean geez, he's played 9 games
McDavid was called generational even before he played one NHL game. Toronto was calling Matthews "near generational" pretty damn quickly into his first season. Mostly because these guys lit it up in junior (in Matthews case a year in the Swiss league), and you could see how extremely talented they were. What Pettersson did in the SHL should be taken into consideration. Statistically wise, he is the best junior player to ever come out of Sweden. When you compare Pettersson U20 SHL season vs Henrik Sedin's best U20 SHL season (Daniel's totals are slightly lower), it's not even close - Pettersson 1.27 PPG. Sedin 0.94 PPG. After what he did in the SHL, then to see him continue to produce at the NHL level, even if it is just 9 games, suggests that he is a for real elite talent at least in the same tier as Matthews Laine etc. I think he will end up being better than them though.

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Before his game the other night where he got 5 points, he was 82nd in league point leaders.
He missed 6 games, otherwise he would be up there with Connor McDavid and Evgeni Malkin. GP 9 G 9 A 6. He's 2nd in the league in P/GP.
     
     
  #452  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 7:20 PM
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You may be right, but its been 9 games. Cant help but notice youre from Vancouver - doubt you'd feel this way if he was on another team.

He's shooting 40% right now. He'll be good, but his numbers are probably going to regress.

Last edited by theman23; Nov 4, 2018 at 7:44 PM.
     
     
  #453  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
McDavid was called generational even before he played one NHL game. Toronto was calling Matthews "near generational" pretty damn quickly into his first season. Mostly because these guys lit it up in junior (in Matthews case a year in the Swiss league), and you could see how extremely talented they were. What Pettersson did in the SHL should be taken into consideration. Statistically wise, he is the best junior player to ever come out of Sweden. When you compare Pettersson U20 SHL season vs Henrik Sedin's best U20 SHL season (Daniel's totals are slightly lower), it's not even close - Pettersson 1.27 PPG. Sedin 0.94 PPG. After what he did in the SHL, then to see him continue to produce at the NHL level, even if it is just 9 games, suggests that he is a for real elite talent at least in the same tier as Matthews Laine etc. I think he will end up being better than them though.


He missed 6 games, otherwise he would be up there with Connor McDavid and Evgeni Malkin. GP 9 G 9 A 6. He's 2nd in the league in P/GP.
2nd in ppg going but again only 9 games in and right after a 5 point night. The bottom line is there's no point in making assumptions about him, other than it looks like he'll be good, but better to make comparisons after a season, or at least halfway. Myself, I wouldn't make a comparison until at least halfway through the sophomore season. I've been around hockey long enough to see blazing starts taper off.

There have also been numerous players who have lit it up in junior that ended up being average players or not even making it in the NHL. It's a long term thing that takes more than 9 games with one of the games being an exceptional 5 game.

He could be better than Laine or Mathews, but I doubt it, only because the odds are that he won't. Give it a full season or so, and re-evaluate.
     
     
  #454  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2018, 9:52 PM
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Agreed you need to have a follow up sophomore year before you can be anointed anything. Pettersson went 5th overall and back to the SHL for a reason. Obviously he is a very good player but generational and best Swedish player ever is plain comical and I can't believe we even have to discuss this. Even if he maintains his pace this year, pretty much impossible, he has to come back next year and prove he can do it again. I would give an exception to this rule for guys like Crosby and McDavid who didn't surprise anyone in their rookie years.

And sorry if I'm incorrect but I believe the same poster was pushing Boeser over Matthews last year. Boeser is a great example of what we are talking about here. In fairness he got injured last year but his goal scoring pace tailed off and down so far this year.
     
     
  #455  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2018, 2:29 AM
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I think the hype on this guy is mostly in Vancouver, as I haven't heard anyone hyping him as generational or the the best swede etc.. and I agree with you guys, making grandiose comparisons like that for a player who's played 9 games is actually ridiculous. At the bare minimum one needs at least a full season, but I agree you you guys, you really need two years in row before you can make a decent judgment.

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2nd in ppg going but again only 9 games in and right after a 5 point night. The bottom line is there's no point in making assumptions about him, other than it looks like he'll be good, but better to make comparisons after a season, or at least halfway. Myself, I wouldn't make a comparison until at least halfway through the sophomore season. I've been around hockey long enough to see blazing starts taper off.

There have also been numerous players who have lit it up in junior that ended up being average players or not even making it in the NHL. It's a long term thing that takes more than 9 games with one of the games being an exceptional 5 game.

He could be better than Laine or Mathews, but I doubt it, only because the odds are that he won't. Give it a full season or so, and re-evaluate.
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Agreed you need to have a follow up sophomore year before you can be anointed anything. Pettersson went 5th overall and back to the SHL for a reason. Obviously he is a very good player but generational and best Swedish player ever is plain comical and I can't believe we even have to discuss this. Even if he maintains his pace this year, pretty much impossible, he has to come back next year and prove he can do it again. I would give an exception to this rule for guys like Crosby and McDavid who didn't surprise anyone in their rookie years.

And sorry if I'm incorrect but I believe the same poster was pushing Boeser over Matthews last year. Boeser is a great example of what we are talking about here. In fairness he got injured last year but his goal scoring pace tailed off and down so far this year.
     
     
  #456  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2018, 2:43 AM
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He missed 6 games, otherwise he would be up there with Connor McDavid and Evgeni Malkin. GP 9 G 9 A 6. He's 2nd in the league in P/GP.
This is why you don't use 9 games worth of stats to predict if someone's a generational player. 2nd in the league for P/GP but let's roll back the clock one game prior to his big 5 point game, he was down the list in P/GP... less actually than The Flames' Gaudreau and tied with Monahan and Tkachuck, and slightly ahead of the Flames' Lindholm. None of those guys are considered generational. The first three are known to be above average players, and most people have never even heard of Lindholm. I guess Gaudreau would be considered an allstar.
     
     
  #457  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2018, 3:47 AM
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Like I said before, I am gauging his talent off of what he did in the SHL last season. It's the second strongest league outside the NHL. The KHL being the strongest. As well as his start in the NHL. Statistically wise he is the best offensive junior player to ever come out of Sweden.

Dahlin has been described as a generational talent by hockey experts, and he played in the SHL last year. He got 20 points in 41 games last year in the SHL.
     
     
  #458  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2018, 9:58 AM
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Dahlin is a defenceman, he went 1st overall, and he is in the NHL the same year he was drafted. None of that is true of Pettersson.
     
     
  #459  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Statistically wise he is the best offensive junior player to ever come out of Sweden.
Better than Forsberg and the Sedins? Sundin? Naslund? Must be fun comparing stats of the SHL over decades....average points per game fluctuates over time.

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Dahlin has been described as a generational talent by hockey experts, and he played in the SHL last year. He got 20 points in 41 games last year in the SHL.
Dahlin also plays defense.
     
     
  #460  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2018, 6:25 PM
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Logan5 you're hilarious man, such a typical canucks fan lol. Look, everyone is excited about Pettersson, the kid is doing awesome, but he needs a far larger sample size (like a whole season under his belt for starters) before the generational label comes out. McDavid was pegged as the next great one because of the way he dominated everywhere he went, but he still had to prove it! Pettersson gets less attention due to the fact that he came from outside North America so the hype wasn't there from day 1. He's in the conversation as an elite player, but has to be better than Connor if he's going to be generational.
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