"Vancouver coasts on its beauty, but misses out on creating vibrant city life."

[quobobo]

"The fact the Cambie Corridor study was launched three months after the Canada Line opened is shocking. They knew for five years it was being built. The plan should have been there when it opened.

"And now the densities they've come up with are pitiful."

This, a million times this. I can't say I agree with everything he's saying, but allowing only 8 stories near a $2 billion transit line is a sad joke.

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm surprised that this doesn't get mentioned more often. I don't think ground has broken on one project in the Cambie corridor between Broadway and Marine. Is this careful planning, or a city hall that is too afraid to make big decisions?

I think the latter, but they have good reason to be afraid - I can't remember the last time any remotely influential group spoke out in favour of zoning more densely. Maybe we should create a SkyscraperPage Vancouver Residents Association.

[cjohnny4]

I just came back from a weekend in Portland, Oregon. Their downtown is certainly dead on the weekends, and by Vancouver standards, dead during the week. However, two great things that I found very pleasant there: beautiful brick sidewalks and trees galore. Maybe Vancouver could start on the sidewalks as a small way of improving the pedestrian experience.

Downtown Vancouver has trees, but not on Portland's scale. The cherry blossom trees along Davie, for example, are a joke. They are pretty for a week or so during the spring. The rest of the summer, they are butt ugly.

As for the sidewalks, I find Vancouver's sidewalks ugly and poorly maintained. This definitely makes for an unpleasant street experience. Biggest sidewalk gripes:

1. Ubiquitous concrete
2. Asphalt patches haphazardly used in uneven areas... no attention paid to aesthetics
3. Boring sidewalks even on showcase streets: the Robson/Denman/Davie/Burrard rectangle should at least be designer sidewalks with beautiful trees planted surrounded by those fancy metal grates in the sidewalk.

Two other issues where I think Portland wins: awnings and beautiful old buildings. Portland seems to have banned those cheap-looking plastic awnings that are over nearly every business in Vancouver. Instead, you see a lot of nice cloth awnings.

Also, along its major downtown streets Portland seems to have preserved so many old buildings. Not much Vancouver can do about that, but a long-term goal should be to gradually raze the very cheap and ugly one-story cinder-block stores that line Davie and Denman. Retail in nicer street-level buildings with beautiful residential space overhead should be a major redevelopment goal in the Davie/Denman corridors.

I'm not saying we have to become Portland. I just think that there is a lot that could be "borrowed" and applied to some key areas of downtown Vancouver.

[whatnext]

The tree issue might be beacuse of our trolley wires, vs the configuration of the tram catenary?

There are a few underutilized spaces that could work to for added street life. That godawful sterile plaza in front of the Queen E was livened up a lot by that Christmas Market in the dead of winter (despite some feeling it was a rip-off).

Alternatively if the VAG were to go into the post office, maybe Larwill Park could actually be a park again. Is it big enough to host Cirque de Soleil etc? The problem with waterfront spaces is they can seem pretty bleak and peripheral on a typical winters day.

[mr.x]

"Vancouver coasts on its natural assets, too rarely learning from other cities that do more with less."


I've said that so many times before...Professor Goldberg is quite spot on. And I couldn't agree more on jhauser's comment on the city being overconfident and arrogant about itself.

It's a sad state of affairs.

[SpongeG]

go down to english bay at sunset if you want life - its always busy its awesome people playing drums, buskers, crowds, its laid back its fun sitting on the bench with a latte taking it all in

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

go down to english bay at sunset if you want life - its always busy its awesome people playing drums, buskers, crowds, its laid back its fun sitting on the bench with a latte taking it all in

...in the summer only. Which goes back to the whole point on only looking outward/relying on nature and the region's fortunate geographic location.

[racc]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Think the author has good intentions but doesn't know what he's talking about. Underground passages do not add vibrancy, I'm all for adding a few missing links but not for the sake of vibrancy. Also arcades are terrible things, hate them even more then Ferris wheels.

Terrible arcades are terrible things but well designed arcades great especially in a rainy city. They should be two stories tall and have light coloured materials on the inside. They probably work better when they are south facing too.

This does illustrate one of the big problems in Vancouver. Something is poorly executed so people automatically reject anything that is like it.

In general it is pathetic that there is little or no rain protection on most Vancouver sidewalks. Even when there are awnings, the sidewalks under them are often blocked with signs, tables or other obstacles making them of little use.

Originally Posted by jlousa

Where we need additional improvements is streetwalls, our urban landscape is pretty damn good but could use some fine tuning. Was down in Portland for the long weekend and they defineately get it (withing the core anyways).

Maybe, but unless things have changed in the last couple of years, they sure don't get great results. There is really no place in Portland that has the big city buzz with lots of people wandering the streets like in downtown Vancouver. When I was there on a long weekend, it kinda felt like one of those 70s movies where every one in the city died. Not very exciting. Their streets with the LRT are practically deserted.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

go down to english bay at sunset if you want life - its always busy its awesome people playing drums, buskers, crowds, its laid back its fun sitting on the bench with a latte taking it all in

You are right, and it's this aspect of Vancouver that makes us lazy when it comes to other aspects of planning the city. Lance berelowitz, an urban commentator, speaks to this in his book "vancouver dream city" He notes that our gathering places are by the water, looking out rather than in. It's a feature of the stunning back-drop that we enjoy. It has, perhaps, made us lazy and complacent.

I'm a glass-half-full kind of guy and prefer to focus on what is great about Vancouver rather than not. That being said, some more usable plazas and public squares would be nice. I did read somewhere that there is going to be an artisan market by the ice rink off robson...we need more of this type of urbanity. The street food scene is also another good move towards vibrancy.

i have noted before that Vancouver's core is a bit diffused and, at times, can feel a little bland. Where is the theatre row? where are all the bars? It takes time to realize we don't function like most cities, and one can't simply amble about the core, you have to know where to go. How many visitors make it over to Commercial Drive for instance (which is very vibrant).

As for the rain. We are in the pacific north west, invest in a brolly

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by mr.x

"Vancouver coasts on its natural assets, too rarely learning from other cities that do more with less."


I've said that so many times before...Professor Goldberg is quite spot on. And I couldn't agree more on jhauser's comment on the city being overconfident and arrogant about itself.

It's a sad state of affairs.

"a sad state of affairs"?!! My god, is it really that bad for you? I just don't see it. We're talking about one of the world's great urban experiences here.

[WarrenC12]

Seems like self-hate is competing with Canucks for the hottest sport in town these days.

I've spent the last week in Tucson, AZ. Apart from sun every day, the place is a total hole. Vancouver-dwellers need to spend some real time in other cities before trashing their own so much. Or if you feel so strongly about it, MOVE.

[ue]

Originally Posted by delboy

I agree with WBC...vancouver has a fair bit of street life for the size of the city. It's easy to forget that we have a small population base. We are not Europe. And WBC is right, our focal points are spread out, be it Kits, Commercial Drive, SOMA, Denman etc....we don't just focus everyone downtown. And we are and always will be defined by our proximity to the great outdoors. This is hardly a revelation and has been written about before.

As for the article, it lost my attention when Calgary, Deadmonton and Winterpeg were described as more vibrant. I have spent a lot of time in both Edmonton and Calgary...their downtowns are amongst the most void of life when the sun goes down. As for underground walkways etc to escape the rain.....that's what brollys are for. We have the Pacifc Centre which has done a very good job at reducing street level activity.

The only part I really agree with is the fact that our waterfronts are not used to their full potential. We have plenty of park space on the front, but more areas to have a beer etc would be a big plus.

there's room for improvement but we are getting there.

What the fuck? I'm sorry the hicky Prairie Towns don't have anything for the West Coast Elitist such as yourself. But bringing in stereotypical slogans doesn't give you the whole picture. You think this forum is only read by Lower Mainlanders and thus, you can piss all over the other Canadian cities?

Vancouver's downtown is nice. It's pretty lively for it being just over 2 million in the metro and being a young, North American city. It is definitely the most vibrant downtown west of Toronto. Like most cities, the areas outside Downtown are generally busier (Commercial, South Granville, Granville Island, et al). True for Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg, too. But all three of these cities have seen a great renaissance in their respective downtowns. When was the last time you were on Stephen Avenue during a warm, summers day? That street can get packed. Edmonton? Well, more hit and miss. During the spring and summer, there are many festivals that bring out hoards of people. 104 Street and Jasper Ave around it bustle in the summer and fall with the farmers market on. Winnipeg's downtown is also revitalizing nicely, with Portage Ave getting better and better and the Exchange District continuing to get fixed up for the better.

Winnipeg isn't just about winter. They have some pretty nice summers there, in case you didn't know and decided to hop on a plane during January. Edmonton certainly isn't dead. Go to Whyte Ave, the Downtown Arts District, West Edmonton Mall, the festivals and see what I mean.

[s211]

Originally Posted by mr.x

"Vancouver coasts on its natural assets, too rarely learning from other cities that do more with less."


I've said that so many times before...Professor Goldberg is quite spot on. And I couldn't agree more on jhauser's comment on the city being overconfident and arrogant about itself.

It's a sad state of affairs.

I agree. What's also sad is when defenders think their city is perfect and can't learn from others.

Every city can learn something good and helpful from other cities. It's that simple.

[s211]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

"a sad state of affairs"?!! My god, is it really that bad for you? I just don't see it. We're talking about one of the world's great urban experiences here.

See my post above.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

"a sad state of affairs"?!! My god, is it really that bad for you? I just don't see it. We're talking about one of the world's great urban experiences here.

Excuse me, but are you saying that Vancouver is one of the world's great urban experiences? It's a lovely modern city in a beautiful setting, yes, but when I think of a GREAT URBAN EXPERIENCE, I tend to think more of London, Paris, Rome, NYC, Tokyo, San Fran, Toronto, Montreal, Istanbul ... plus myriad other cities I've never seen.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by quobobo

This, a million times this. I can't say I agree with everything he's saying, but allowing only 8 stories near a $2 billion transit line is a sad joke.

This is Vancouver, remember.

[mezzanine]

WRT this thread, it is interesting to see the evolution of public gatherings from the 1994 cup run to now. IMO in 1994, part of the problem was that there was no well-designed or sanctioned gathering place and no civic emphasis to try to provide one. this, plus poor crowd control led to people gathering on robson and bute and hijinx leading to the cup riots. prior to the olympics being rewarded to vancouver, there was still no civic emphasis on a public celebration place - i remember after a post-season series win over st louis, 'dozens' of people gathering along street corners on robson by burrard cheering, with the police nervously watching on.

with the experience of the olmypics, plus other things, especially the improvements to granville, the new plaza by the CBC, and the willingness of the city to offer gathering spots (on the fly, they closed granville last night and diverted buses to seymour and howe), i think vancouver is light years beyond 1994. the most important thing IMO is a support from civic govt to provide a public outlet for festivities, both logistically and with infrastructure. who knew the granvile st light sabres would make such a dramatic effect?

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by simonfiction

Some of it seems exaggerated, like you pointed out, but don't you think a lot of it rings true?

As for pedestrianisation, I heard that Granville St pedestrianisation was considered a failiure back in the day, but I don't see why that should shy us away from trying to create a decent pedestrian space now. I don't think drastic changes are needed - but just *something* would be nice. I'm still holding out for a square - car free and served by restaurants, cafes and bars. A natural central gathering point would make so much difference to the city IMO.

Granville could be made car-free only on weekends as well... when it's used the most.

[twoNeurons]

Why the hate for Arcades? For narrow streets (or perhaps converted alleys) they are brilliant.

What one has to remember, is that if we DON'T build these covered areas for shopping, we WILL have more and more people flocking to Pacific Centre Mall and Metrotown.

Some [urbanist] people here tend to be all about the "urban experience" but I keep seeing "suck it up", "buy an umbrella", "it's just water", "this is Vancouver" and "wear a hood" but fail to actually offer a way to make the outdoors more inviting in inclement weather.

The reality of this is that when you're shopping downtown in the rain you've got one hand holding your [paper] shopping bags, the other with a mobile phone/handbag/other utility in hand... and you've got no hands free for an umbrella... at least not for long periods of time.

How about this down Robson(Lyons, France):


Take out one lane of parking, widen the sidewalks and add a canopy. A two-story curved canopy would also work.

[simonfiction]

I think a lot of people are taking this article to heart as some personal assault on the people of Vancouver, but I didn't get that from the article. He wasn't saying Vancouver lacks vibrancy, just that our planning and space does little to facilitate it and doesn't react to the Vancouver environment well. We should be setting the pace on living in a rainy, mild and sunny environment. Instead we have malls suited to hardcore winter cities and streets that can be unpleasant for half of the year. A better use of space downtown and well configured retail space is really one of the only things Vancouver is missing IMO.