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  #161  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2012, 1:25 AM
bvpcvm bvpcvm is offline
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[we're getting off topic here]

I can certainly understand some of tworivers' disappointment in Portland. I spent some time in Germany a few years ago and coming back to Portland - "The most European city in America" - was a huge letdown. I suspect that's the source of some of tworivers' pessimism.

The contrast between what Portland trumpets itself to be and what it really could be is just huge. Having said that, I've never spent any time in places like Omaha or Indianapolis or Columbus or Orlando, but I understand that they are such disasters that in contrast Portland looks pretty damn good. But again, compared to many European cities, we've got a long way to go.
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  #162  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2012, 1:44 AM
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Also, Europe is far from perfect as well:

Poland - http://goo.gl/maps/qmcOF - this could be somewhere in Kansas
Denmark - http://goo.gl/maps/XLzb0
Germany - http://goo.gl/maps/SPhV5 - the density here isn't particularly high
Netherlands - http://goo.gl/maps/lXX2b - where are the sidewalks?
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  #163  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2012, 2:33 PM
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It is all fine and good to compare to Europe. We can never have that. Europeans pay out the nose in taxes for their quality of life, which I am willing to do, but the large majority of Americans will not stand for that. Then they wonder why we can't have what European cities have.
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  #164  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2012, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvpcvm View Post
I'd be curious to know what exactly is meant by "rapidly eroding mythology". I don't question that Portland has been resting on its laurels for too long, but I also don't see any sort of receding tide of popularity. Does anyone know any hipsters who decided not to move to Portland because "it's SO over"? Or is the *mythology* eroding only amongst disappointed youngsters on this forum?
That sort of talk is inevitable, and mostly disposable, quite frankly. Any popularity is always followed by the meaningless cliche backlash that usually begins with the very same group that made something popular in the first place. If anything, the cliche backlash confirms the potential for the popularity to be more than just a passing fad. It's true for a band. It's true for a restaurant. It's true for a company. It's true for a city as well.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2013, 12:40 AM
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@2oh1: I think my lengthy post, if you bothered to read it, makes it clear that I am less concerned with "meaningless cliche backlash" and more concerned with what I perceive as the *growing* gap between PDX's mythology and reality and how that translates into complacency and a lack of boldness on the part of the city. And yes, I think perceptions are important.
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  #166  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2013, 1:34 AM
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Excellent point(s) tworivers...
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  #167  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 12:43 AM
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@tworivers, thanks for not being rude. Oh, wait.

The problem with your argument is that you're trying to quantify emotion and intuition, hopes and dreams. A young hipster leaves Sacramento with his styled to look ratty hair and oversized glasses in hopes of a dream life in the hipster haven of Portlandia. He is more than likely going to feel frustrated when he gets here in the same way many unrealistic NYC newcomers are when the reality of the place sets in. The same could be said of newcomers to just about any city when they experience the difference between the reputation as seen from the outside and the reality of actually living there. The grass is always greener on the other side. And it always will be. I've seen plenty of people move to Portland only to return to where they're from a few years later, partly becuase they had unrealistic expectations of what life here would be like, but again, that's going to happen in any city. And it was happening here during any era one might refer to as Portland's glory days. More importantly, look at the number of those who have come here and stayed. That number is growing.

For a proper view of what's happening in Portland in terms of its mystique or mythology, you should try to travel whenever you can. It's easy to get so used to Portland that one loses proper perspective on what most other cities are like. Too many of us take our city for granted.

I'm not suggesting Portland is perfect nor am I suggesting our city could not be improved. I'm also not suggesting our city's leadership is anywhere near being optimal. I didn't even vote for a mayoral candidate this time because there wasn't a candidate I deemed worthy of voting for. Instead, I wrote in None Of The Above.

Yes, we need stronger leaders, but that has always been true and it always will be. I look back on the time of Vera Katz and I wish we had a mayor like here now. But I remind myself that even when she was mayor, I wanted stronger leadership - not because she didn't do what I thought was an excellent job. It's just that I, and I would guess you as well, always want better. It's human nature.

But to judge Portland's "mojo" during a global recession without factoring in the effect of the recession is ridiculous. The fact that Portland wasn't crippled by the recession speaks to our city's strength, not its weakness.

Quote:
My point is that a certain mythology has indeed been built up over time, and especially the last 10 years or so, about Portland: how "green" we are, how great our transit system is, how we are at the vanguard of bicycle infrastructure, how we're a shining example of the power of the "creative class", how visionary our urban planning is, etc. I would argue that the reality has never quite lived up to the mythology
Reality cannot possibly ever live up to a mythology.

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Our politicians and bureaucrats are hiding behind glories past. Enrique Penalosa, the former mayor of Bogota, said as much during his talk here last summer.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. As a generic statement, I might agree, but I don't think that's it, especially not in Portland. Great things are still happening here. Our mass transit is expanding, though I wish it were happening faster. We're creating more public parks, though I wish we created more of them. We're planning more public spaces in Portland, such as the Beard Market (er, whatever that's going to be called) at the Morrison bridgehead. We're in the process of connecting downtown to South Waterfront. PSU is growing in ways that make for a world class university, and it's happening in ways that make PSU part of the city rather than by creating boundaries to remove it from the city. So many great things are happening, though of course I wish for more of them and more urgency for them.

I don't think Portland politicians are hiding behind past glories. I think too many of them lack vision and allow themselves to sacrifice their values for the sake of what they consider to be political realities. That's how we end up with candidates like Hales who prioritize potholes. We need leaders with the courage and strength to change political realities rather than succumb to them. We need leaders who lead their constituents rather than follow polls. But what we need even more than that is a better way to cultivate future generations of the leaders we hope for, and that has to happen at the local level.

What Enrique Penalosa actually said can be seen here (to anyone who hasn't seen it, it's worth watching).

Bottom line: The more any mythology grows, the greater the divide will be between the mythology and the reality, but that does not suggest a declining reality. It often suggests the opposite, which is the reason the mythology grows in the first place.

Quote:
And yes, I think perceptions are important.
I don't discount the value of perception. But reality matters far more.

Last edited by 2oh1; Jan 2, 2013 at 12:59 AM.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 12:58 AM
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I like your perspective, 2oh1. Nicely put.
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  #169  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 1:37 AM
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Interesting, thoughtful discussion. While all threads go off topic at points, this one is swinging way away from the main topic; progress, news, and hopefully construction pics of the PAW.

If anyone is interested in continuing the dialog, someone should create a new thread. It would be interesting to see the dialog continue. This conversation, here at least, needs to swing back to the PAW. Thanks!
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  #170  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 2:18 AM
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Mark, as moderator, can you move these specific posts into a new thread?
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  #171  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 2:22 AM
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^I'm sure there must be a way. I'll see if I can...
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  #172  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 2:25 AM
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Actually I'd like to add one more thing before we go back to PAW - our leaders may be less visionary these days, but don't forget that the opposition is far more organized (they've had 40 years to hone their arguments), and, thanks to the internet, can mount campaigns far more quickly, using canned talking points copied from the websites of idiots like O'Toole, Cox, anti-Agenda 21 hillbillies, etc, etc. In larger cities, where there's more money behind urban development (and consequently momentum for large infrastructure projects) these groups may have less effect. But here, with Clackamas County so nearby, their voices are perhaps a bit louder. (I'm speculating, FWIW)
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  #173  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 2:28 AM
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Portland Open Thread

I've cleared the PAW thread of the off topic conversations and moved them here. Please feel free to continue to engage in the conversation.
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Last edited by MarkDaMan; Jan 2, 2013 at 2:38 AM.
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  #174  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2013, 7:02 PM
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http://portlandarchitecture.com/

Excellent column (01/02/2013) 2012: looking back and ahead

....pretty awesome summary of what's happening in the city.

Last edited by PacificNW; Jan 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM.
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  #175  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2013, 7:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tworivers View Post
I'm starting this thread to stimulate discussion specifically around what sort of efforts can be made to help Portland evolve into a more urban, cosmopolitan, 24/7, street-active city.
A related discussion would be what we as citizens can do to help Portland evolve into a more urban, cosmopolitan, 24/7, street-active city. I agree, we need strong leadership and planning at the top, and ultimately the big projects need to at least go through them, but are there actions we can perform to get them headed in the right direction?

I think that especially with the rise of the internet, there is potentially greater power for community members to be involved in the development of their cities. Perhaps crowd-sourced funding for projects that the community members want, art installations illustrating possibilities in urban intervention, apps and websites that get citizens involved, etc... What steps can citizens take to prompt change?
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  #176  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2013, 1:44 AM
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Bright Lights Discussion

For those of you who are lucky enough to live in the city might want attend this!

http://portlandmonthly.createsend5.c...432AF2E34A2A5F

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  #177  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 12:59 AM
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New Jade District Another Gem in Portland's Crown

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local...Qgu_rBziw.cspx

By Steve Law
The Portland Tribune


Sometimes a name change helps give an area a new image or sense of vitality.

Northwest Portland’s redeveloped rail yards, initially dubbed the River District, got more panache when they changed the name to the Pearl District.

Now eastside community leaders are working on a counterpart to the Pearl seven miles away, using the same jewelry theme.

They call it the Jade District.

Still in the formative stage, the Jade District is an Asian-dominated commercial zone along Southeast 82nd Avenue between Division Street and Powell Boulevard, and spilling east on both arteries.

It may seem audacious now, but organizers hope it will one day be a tourist attraction focused on Pan-Asian food, entertainment and culture, with a thriving street scene filled with pedestrians.

Dan Cogan, manager of the Burgerville restaurant on Northeast 82nd and Glisan Street, already has a tag line for the marketing campaign: “The Jade District, another jewel in Portland’s crown...................."

(Continued).....

Last edited by PacificNW; Feb 23, 2013 at 2:12 AM.
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  #178  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2013, 8:21 PM
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My friend from Minneapolis was in Portland for the first time last week and had a few opinions:

*LOVES the Pearl District - Walkability and architecture.

*SoWa was "awkward" - A row of tall towers w/low-rise building popping up all around this row.

*HATED the skyline - "That pink tower is all by it's lonesome. The tallest buildings are all the same shape. No creativity in design."

*The whole city is very clean.
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  #179  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2013, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sioux612 View Post
*HATED the skyline - "That pink tower is all by it's lonesome. The tallest buildings are all the same shape. No creativity in design."
Interesting, I love the skyline!
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  #180  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2013, 10:16 PM
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We don't really have much of a skyline. I love Portland, but this city needs maybe three 500 foot towers plus some sort of signature skyline structure.
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