HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Supertall Construction


270 Park Avenue in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • New York Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location
New York Projects & Construction Forum

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #661  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2018, 5:41 AM
Amanita's Avatar
Amanita Amanita is offline
Crane Goddess
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,229
I'm gonna catch some shit for this, but I'm with JSsocal on this one- JP Morgan wants to give us less public space than the law requires, and is offering NOTHING in exchange for it. We really don't want to get in the habit of letting developers (especially those with so much money) get away with this, or rewarding it. If they want to reduce the amount of public space they're giving us, they need to give something in return instead of just crying hardship and spilled milk because of their site. They think the original builders there didn't have a really fun time working around that train shed too? But they managed, sucked it up, and managed to put up a building.
__________________
"Build me to the heavens, and Life never stops"
"Live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be"
-Angel
"Prayers are fleeting and wars are forgotten, but what is built endures"
-Ambassador DeLenn, Babylon 5
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #662  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2018, 5:44 AM
digitallagasse digitallagasse is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 104
I completely agree on what has been said. 7000 square feet of enclosed public space is a better public benefit than even increasing the outdoor public space to 15,000 square feet in this context. Although I like the added height the shorter massing is by far the better approach. The compensation more than makes up for the size reduction. Going off of other recent building designs that public space will likely be amazing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #663  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2018, 5:55 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
Yeah, the enclosed space would be much more appealing. There is just much more that can be done in an enclosed space, unlike an open plaza, which would really only be nice on the nice days. The city has it's share of open and enclosed plazas, but many more open than enclosed.





The language in the zoning would change to a larger lot size (of which there really aren't any) of 80,000 sq ft. The worries about it setting some kind of precedent in the area are unfounded.

Also, there are differences between the current building, and the much larger building that will replace it, but this zoning change would be very specific.






The current zoning configuration...







I don't think Chase is asking for anything unreasonable. While the added public space is nice, Midtown East wasn't rezoned just so Manhattan could get one more underutilized outdoor plaza. The primary goal here is to build modern office space in that district, the type that will keep it as one of the primary business districts in the city and the world. The city gains nothing by trying to restrict that. For that reason, the zoning change or alternatives would have been placed in the original rezoning had it been contemplated that a site this large would be developed there. Let's not lose sight of that very important fact. We can agree or disagree about enclosed/open public spaces, but that isn't really what this is about.




__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

Last edited by NYguy; Dec 8, 2018 at 6:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #664  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2018, 2:17 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
https://nypost.com/2018/12/11/new-yo...e-at-cipriani/

New York’s real estate titans celebrate at Cipriani

By Steve Cuozzo
December 11, 2018


Quote:
...it was appropriate that participants in the sale of air rights from Grand Central Terminal across the street to JPMorgan Chase arrived just minutes after the momentous deal — which was announced last February — finally closed last week.

The $240 million purchase speeds up Jamie Dimon’s plan for a new headquarters tower at 270 Park Ave. Several JPMorgan Chase honchos were joined by others from Michael Dell’s MSD Capital and partner TF Cornerstone, which owned 90 percent of the terminal’s air rights.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #665  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2018, 6:04 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
DECEMBER 11, 2018


A walk around 270 Park, our upcoming deconstruction and construction zone...


1.



2.



3.



4.



5.



6.



7.







8.



9.



10.



11.



12.



13.



14.

__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #666  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2018, 8:16 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,795





Credit: JC_Heights
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #667  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 11:40 PM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 4,216
Is this yet another air rights purchase? I can't even keep track any more.

https://therealdeal.com/2018/12/13/j...-for-270-park/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #668  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 11:52 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Is this yet another air rights purchase? I can't even keep track any more.

https://therealdeal.com/2018/12/13/j...-for-270-park/


These are the air rights currently being used.


Quote:
The bank bought 666,766 square feet of development rights, 1,234 square feet less than what was expected based on the company’s application to the city in September. JPMorgan paid $208 million to Grand Central’s owners, TF Cornerstone and MSD Capital, according to documents filed on Thursday with the city’s Department of Finance.

Sources familiar with the deal said JPMorgan had the option to buy the additional 1,200-plus square feet of air rights but didn’t need to for its Park Avenue project.

__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #669  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 11:53 PM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,075
Hmm, interesting. Hopefully this is nothing...

Quote:
But construction of the 1,000-plus tall tower may face some logistical challenges. At an MTA board meeting earlier this week, officials revealed that the height of the project may require deeper footings, which could interfere with the East Side Access project, Crain’s reported. It’s unclear if this will impact the scale of JPMorgan’s project.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #670  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 11:54 PM
Hudson11's Avatar
Hudson11 Hudson11 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,040
I bet this is the bigger issue for Foster and Chase rather than the amount of public space and floor plate size. I don't know how much of an impact 1400ft vs 1560ft is in terms of the foundations, but I imagine it's not insignificant.

JPMorgan tower could interfere with MTA mega-project

Quote:
JPMorgan Chase's plans to build a soaring new headquarters at 270 Park Ave. have run into the complicated task of working around the transit mega-project being built underneath it.

The proposed spire, which is envisioned to rise over 1,000 feet in height, sits above active train tracks feeding into Grand Central Terminal and, beneath that, the under-construction concourse for East Side Access, an over $11 billion project to build a Long Island Railroad connection under the terminal.

[...]

"The building that they're contemplating building is significantly larger," said Janno Lieber, the chief development officer at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority during the board meeting. "That has consequences in terms of the penetrations that take place through the Grand Central train shed and down to rock."

Lieber said the MTA was working with JPMorgan "very collaboratively to resolve the issues of how to configure that structure and make sure it doesn't impact on our budget and schedule."

"It's not uncomplicated," Lieber said. "Our clear message and understanding with JPMC is that [East Side Access] can't have any budget or schedule impact. So all the work that we're doing is premised on those principals."

Lieber said the bank would reimburse the MTA for any design and consulting expenses incurred in evaluating how to accommodate the new tower.

It was not immediately clear if JPMorgan will have to modify the 72-story, Foster + Partners-designed building by of lopping off some of its upper floors to reduce its floor area. Larger towers generally require deeper footings to anchor them and reducing the project's size could make it easier to build without encroaching on East Side Access.
__________________
click here too see hunser's list of the many supertall skyscrapers of New York City!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #671  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2018, 11:56 PM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,075
I hope it's a non issue.

It would be such a shame to see this thing scaled back.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #672  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2018, 12:07 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
Quote:
Lieber said the MTA was working with JPMorgan "very collaboratively to resolve the issues of how to configure that structure and make sure it doesn't impact on our budget and schedule."

Lieber said the bank would reimburse the MTA for any design and consulting expenses incurred in evaluating how to accommodate the new tower.

It was not immediately clear if JPMorgan will have to modify the 72-story, Foster + Partners-designed building by of lopping off some of its upper floors to reduce its floor area. Larger towers generally require deeper footings to anchor them and reducing the project's size could make it easier to build without encroaching on East Side Access.

They aren't going to reduce the size of the project. They're all professionals, everyone involved, they know how to get it done.


Quote:
JPMorgan representatives described the complexity of the site, stating that the bank will be forced to use many of the current footings for its existing tower as the foundation for its new spire because the web of train tracks and other infrastructure below ground left little to no room for additional or alternatively-located pilings.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #673  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2018, 12:23 AM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
They aren't going to reduce the size of the project. They're all professionals, everyone involved, they know how to get it done.
I'd hope, it is JP Morgan after all and they spent a ton on air rights.

The article mentions 72 stories, either that's outdate/wrong or these floors will be huge, either that or the crown will be.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #674  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2018, 1:22 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I'd hope, it is JP Morgan after all and they spent a ton on air rights.

The article mentions 72 stories, either that's outdate/wrong or these floors will be huge, either that or the crown will be.

70 stories has always been an approximate number of floors. It will be close to that (earlier it was stated it could be 75).



Anyway, about 13 minutes into this clip, you can see the MTA board discussing 270 Park...


Video Link




A look again at the rails beneath...







__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #675  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2018, 1:24 AM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
70 stories has always been an approximate number of floors. It will be close to that (earlier it was stated it could be 75).
Right, although that was when we were given the 1,200 figure too. Now that it'll be 1,400+ I hope it'll at least crack 80

Not that it really matters that much since floor count is seemingly meaningless these days but still
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #676  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2018, 1:41 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Right, although that was when we were given the 1,200 figure too. Now that it'll be 1,400+ I hope it'll at least crack 80

Not that it really matters that much since floor count is seemingly meaningless these days but still
Well, keep in mind that we're talking official floors. What they ultimately end up calling the floors is something else.





https://www.instagram.com/p/BrS_h-LlRB8/

__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

Last edited by NYguy; Dec 14, 2018 at 2:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #677  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 12:21 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is online now
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,865
CB5's official stand on the POPS...


https://www.cb5.org/cb5m/resolutions.../resolution_4/


Application # N 190180 ZRM, 270 Park Avenue, JPMorgan Chase Bank


Quote:
WHEREAS, The Greater East Midtown rezoning proposal was adopted by the City Council on August 9, 2017 (the “Rezoning Plan”), after a comprehensive process consulting community stakeholders to inform rezoning, capital commitments, funding mechanisms and other policy decisions affecting East Midtown; and,

WHEREAS, The Applicant has previously requested a certification to allow a transfer of Air Rights from the landmarked Grand Central Terminal to 270 Park Avenue for development of a proposed office tower, designed by Foster and Partners, comprised of 1,871,763 net sq. ft. of Class A office space (and 2,400,000 gross sq. ft.) pursuant to the newly adopted Zoning Text; and

WHEREAS, The Applicant is submitting a revised plan for the site, including modified retail plans and an enclosed 7,000 sq. ft. privately owned public space (“POPS”), citing the Grand Central Terminal train shed sitting under approximately two-thirds of the site as a limiting factor that prevents the addition of a 10,000 sq. ft. POPS as required by the Greater East Midtown Zoning Text; and

WHEREAS, The Applicant is choosing to enlarge the sidewalks on East 47th Street and East 48th Street, in part accommodate the surge in pedestrian traffic caused by increased number of employees, as well as to render the building compliant to the sky plane exposure requirements while utilizing all the available FAR; and

WHEREAS, The proposed POPS designed by architect Vishaan Chakrabarti would have a green wall and water features, would have seating that can be used as work space, with seating and tables of different heights, a kiosk that would sell coffee, cold and hot beverages, but would have no public bathroom; and WHEREAS, The proposed zoning text amendment would allow JPMC to close the POPS to the public to hold private functions six times per year; and

WHEREAS, The JPMC headquarters currently accommodate 6,500 employees and the proposed tower will accommodate 12,500 employees; and

WHEREAS, The increased density at the site will increase the total number of workers, employees, and pedestrian traffic in the area, even factoring in the consolidation of other JPMorgan Chase offices in the neighborhood, which are likely to be replaced with equivalent workers in addition to the new added density, with no proposed new transit capacity or transit entrances; and,

WHEREAS, CB5 is sympathetic to the technical and engineering limiting factors on the site, but is disappointed and chagrined that the Applicant has proposed no substitution in form of a public benefit or significant replacement for the loss of 3,000 sq. ft. of public space envisioned by the letter and spirit of the Greater East Midtown Zoning Text; and,

Quote:
WHEREAS, The site is the first to be considered under the Rezoned Plan and thus sets an important precedent for all forthcoming applications to be considered under the letter and spirit of the Rezoning Plan, which defines an expected public benefit from development taking advantage of the Rezoning Plan; and,

WHEREAS, The proposed text amendment is specific to the site, and designed to be inapplicable to other sites with similar conditions, though it has not been proposed as a variance, and thus will have a likely effect on future text amendment proposals and should be considered in that context; and,

WHEREAS, Community Board Five has asked for substitute POPS designs and locations but the applicant has refused to consider alternative options such as a POPS on Park Avenue, a thru block north-south covered POPS mid-block, or an additional POPS area connected to the proposed POPS via escalator on a higher level deeming them not feasible while not elaborating on the rationale; and

WHEREAS, The applicant is not considering any measures to compensate for the loss of POPS; and

WHEREAS, The sidewalk enlargements considered by the Applicant are not commensurate with the loss of 3,000 square feet of POPS, especially given that the number of employees occupying the tower will double; and

WHEREAS, CB5 is concerned about additional planned operating characteristics of the POPS, including the limited operating hours of 7 AM–10 PM as proposed, the sustainability and feasibility of the proposed “green wall,” the lack of public bathrooms, and the proposal to close the POPS to the public for private events; therefore be it

RESOLVED, Community Board Five recommends denial of the application proposing a zoning text amendment modifying existing requirements specific to 270 Park Avenue and reducing the required onsite public space to 7,000 sq. ft; and be it further

RESOLVED, Community Board Five requests the applicant considers making meaningful offers to either find 3,000 square feet of additional quality space or include a substantial public benefit to compensate for the loss of public space.

Lol, where are you gonna find 3,000 sq ft that would be beneficial to the public? If the 7,000 sq ft isn't enough, imagine 3,000 sq ft. I know the CB vote doesn't carry any weight, but Chase should call them on that anyway, and build the outdoor plaza midblock, which no one will use, and will have none of the amenities for the public mentioned - neither those planned for the indoor space, nor a public restroom the CB seems to think all outdoor plazas have.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #678  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 1:10 AM
Amanita's Avatar
Amanita Amanita is offline
Crane Goddess
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,229
I'm with the CB on this- this is a precedent setting project, and we really shouldn't set a precedent of letting developers weasel out of legal requirements, while offering nothing in return.
__________________
"Build me to the heavens, and Life never stops"
"Live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be"
-Angel
"Prayers are fleeting and wars are forgotten, but what is built endures"
-Ambassador DeLenn, Babylon 5
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #679  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 1:11 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,356
Are we entering a situation where we end up with a crumby public space that admittedly nobody wants but get the taller tower? A jeeeeez… the dilemma... the collision of values... what to dooooo?
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #680  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 1:20 AM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Are we entering a situation where we end up with a crumby public space that admittedly nobody wants but get the taller tower? A jeeeeez… the dilemma... the collision of values... what to dooooo?
I hope, I would sacrifice the public space for a 1,600+ foot building.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Supertall Construction
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:03 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.