The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[rdaner]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

I completely understand that, and I have read several explanations as to why. My question was purely theoretical, hence the boldface and italicized if.

I can’t comment on IKEA in Moncton but I can say that in Toronto the downtown store is going crazy with business and I am looking for them to open central stores in Montreal, Vancouver and possibly Calgary. As I live downtown and it is now convenient to access I am there once a month and people visiting me from out of town always want to go! Lol

And now that I think about it there has been speculation of another traditional suburban store in the western GTHA (Kitchener or London.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

There won’t be an IKEA in Moncton this century. Not unless Moncton has a growth spurt like a Chinese city in the 90’s. Halifax is even lucky to have one. Think of it this way, New England used to have 4 and they closed one so now they have just 3. If they only have 3, there is zero chance the maritimes ever gets 2.

I agree. A lot of Monctonians have a fixation on IKEA. I understand this, but, at least in North America, IKEA is a brand reserved for only larger cities. I remember seeing somewhere that IKEA will not consider locating a store in any community with a CMA population of at least 750,000. At about 180,000, Moncton falls far short of the mark. Shit, even Halifax (CMA 500,000) shouldn't have a store, but, IKEA built one there under the assumption that it would be the regional store for the entire Maritimes.

The entire Maritimes has a population of slightly more than 2M. Let's talk again when there are at least 3M people in the Maritimes and 350k in the Moncton CMA. Moncton might be able to make a case for a second regional store then.

See you guys again in about 2075.

[new kid in town]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Oh I see. I missed that part. I agree with your idea of a commercial node off Vaughan Harvey & Millennium. I think that having a retail node there instead of at Vaughan Harvey & Main makes a lot of sense. It’s more central for those living inside the Wheeler loop. I would also potentially support a retail node adjacent to Rallye Chrysler. Johnathan Creek then becomes a natural point for the downtown to transition into the existing uses on west main. Obviously I would support high density uses in either location but, especially in the case of the old CN shops, that is a giant brownfield, adjacent to existing industrial uses, so commercial is probably the best use of the land now anyway.

Ah yes, West Main definitely could also use the retail/commercial expansion. The edge as to why Vaughan Harvey and Millennium got my vote though is to break the idea of our downtown being one long street

Originally Posted by rdaner

I can’t comment on IKEA in Moncton but I can say that in Toronto the downtown store is going crazy with business and I am looking for them to open central stores in Montreal, Vancouver and possibly Calgary. As I live downtown and it is now convenient to access I am there once a month and people visiting me from out of town always want to go! Lol

And now that I think about it there has been speculation of another traditional suburban store in the western GTHA (Kitchener or London.)

I've only ever been to the IKEA over near Leslie at Toronto but even back then it was already crazy so I'm not surprised their downtown location is still bringing in lots of business.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree. A lot of Monctonians have a fixation on IKEA. ...

See you guys again in about 2075.

1 - I already explained that my question was purely theoretical (or fantastical if you prefer that)

2 - I have already read your explanation on the population each location services

3 - I just wanted to get a grasp on where people here wanted to see more commercial/retail expansion within Moncton proper

There really is no need to repeat it and put some snide comments

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

1 - I already explained that my question was purely theoretical (or fantastical if you prefer that)

2 - I have already read your explanation on the population each location services

3 - I just wanted to get a grasp on where people here wanted to see more commercial/retail expansion within Moncton proper

There really is no need to repeat it and put some snide comments

Sorry, i misunderstood the intent of your question. No offence was intended.

If you're looking for a discussion as to where commercial/retail nodes should be located in the city, well, that's a different matter.

Here's my take:

1) - I think the Granite Centre was a misbegotten concept in the first place. It required a change to the municipal service boundary, and has placed extreme pressure on Elmwood Drive at the TCH interchange. It should not have been allowed. Having said this though, the cat is out of the bag, and the full length of Granite Drive should be made available for further retail expansion, complemented by a new TCH interchange at McLaughlin. I have a contact who thinks that a major truck stop might be located here, and, that if there was ever to be a third Walmart in the city, it would be located here as well. Elmwood Home Hardware is still expected to relocate here at some point, and a new to market grocery store is apparently a strong possibility. Given all this potential activity, city council should get on board and let it all happen.

2) - There is still potential for Mapleton Crossing Phases One & Two (on both the SW and SE corners of the TCH/Mapleton interchange. I have no idea what Thrive's current intentions are for the proposed apartment complex in phase one of the development. This was originally planned as being entirely a retail development, but those plans collapsed with the demise of Cabelas and the decision of Costco to locate at Granite Drive. A new Kent store has been built here, and, I believe the city would still like to have a retail node in this location, especially given how much money they have spent to widen and service Mapleton Road. Retail in Mapleton Crossing Phase Two would also help to support the city's plans for the Vision Lands.

3) - The western end of Mountain Road where it parallels the TCH will likely see retail development at some point. There are already a lot of hotels out there, as well as fast food, a truck stop and the casino. There is a cluster of midrise apartments in the neighbourhood, and Sobeys owns land there. I could easily see a retail plaza being build, anchored by Sobeys, and other neighbourhood businesses like a pharmacy, bank and dollar store.

4) - I like the idea of commercializing the CNR Shops property near Vaughan Harvey Blvd. This will never be residential due to soil contamination issues related to the property's brownfield history, and with work-from-home trending, a suburban office park is no longer a viable option either. Retail seems a good option, especially given the traffic volume on Vaughan Harvey. As growth in the downtown population increases, this may become more likely.

5) - Riverview is well served by Findlay Park. This just needs to be built out some more, and, with new developments like ICONs planned 375 apartment complex nearby, the population base for a retail node will only increase. I've always thought this would be a good location for a suburban Walmart, but, retail people I know say this is unlikely given the lack of a nearby major highway and the fact that Riverview is on the "wrong side of the river." We'll see..........

6) - Uptown Dieppe along Dieppe Blvd is doing very well in terms of becoming a "suburban town centre", especially with the new Superstore/Shoppers Drug Mart development. I think they have reached critical mass now, and that this area will continue to fill out with new neighbourhood specific retail options. It will not be a destination shopping centre, but, will service the eastern region of Dieppe very well.

[new kid in town]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sorry, i misunderstood the intent of your question. No offence was intended.

If you're looking for a discussion as to where commercial/retail nodes should be located in the city, well, that's a different matter.

Here's my take:

1) - I think the Granite Centre was a misbegotten concept in the first place. It required a change to the municipal service boundary, and has placed extreme pressure on Elmwood Drive at the TCH interchange. It should not have been allowed. Having said this though, the cat is out of the bag, and the full length of Granite Drive should be made available for further retail expansion, complemented by a new TCH interchange at McLaughlin. I have a contact who thinks that a major truck stop might be located here, and, that if there was ever to be a third Walmart in the city, it would be located here as well. Elmwood Home Hardware is still expected to relocate here at some point, and a new to market grocery store is apparently a strong possibility. Given all this potential activity, city council should get on board and let it all happen.

2) - There is still potential for Mapleton Crossing Phases One & Two (on both the SW and SE corners of the TCH/Mapleton interchange. I have no idea what Thrive's current intentions are for the proposed apartment complex in phase one of the development. This was originally planned as being entirely a retail development, but those plans collapsed with the demise of Cabelas and the decision of Costco to locate at Granite Drive. A new Kent store has been built here, and, I believe the city would still like to have a retail node in this location, especially given how much money they have spent to widen and service Mapleton Road. Retail in Mapleton Crossing Phase Two would also help to support the city's plans for the Vision Lands.

3) - The western end of Mountain Road where it parallels the TCH will likely see retail development at some point. There are already a lot of hotels out there, as well as fast food, a truck stop and the casino. There is a cluster of midrise apartments in the neighbourhood, and Sobeys owns land there. I could easily see a retail plaza being build, anchored by Sobeys, and other neighbourhood businesses like a pharmacy, bank and dollar store.

4) - I like the idea of commercializing the CNR Shops property near Vaughan Harvey Blvd. This will never be residential due to soil contamination issues related to the property's brownfield history, and with work-from-home trending, a suburban office park is no longer a viable option either. Retail seems a good option, especially given the traffic volume on Vaughan Harvey. As growth in the downtown population increases, this may become more likely.

5) - Riverview is well served by Findlay Park. This just needs to be built out some more, and, with new developments like ICONs planned 375 apartment complex nearby, the population base for a retail node will only increase. I've always thought this would be a good location for a suburban Walmart, but, retail people I know say this is unlikely given the lack of a nearby major highway and the fact that Riverview is on the "wrong side of the river." We'll see..........

6) - Uptown Dieppe along Dieppe Blvd is doing very well in terms of becoming a "suburban town centre", especially with the new Superstore/Shoppers Drug Mart development. I think they have reached critical mass now, and that this area will continue to fill out with new neighbourhood specific retail options. It will not be a destination shopping centre, but, will service the eastern region of Dieppe very well.

No worries.

1 - Are you talking mostly about the flow of traffic, or are there other services/issues involved in opening Granite? I do agree Granite drive has a lot of potential especially from McLaughlin. I can also definitely see a third Walmart making sense.

2 - Mapleton is a bit of an odd duck for me. I can't explain it well but it both feels like there's room to grow but also feels constricting at the same time. Perhaps because I feel like Plaza blvd, Wheeler and Trinity Centres already cover a lot of different retail niches?

3 - Mountain Rd west is very exciting to me. It has a completely different vibe thanks to its elevation, and the Casino/Magnetic Hill makes it feel a lot more tourist-oriented. I feel like it could benefit more from novelty or really big brands with huge draw (which is why I consider it as one of my choices for the fantastical IKEA of the far future).

4 - I've always been curious as to the history of that patch of land. It's wide enough for development and reminds me of open-concept malls like that in California or Toronto's Shops at Don Mills (although we do already have several plazas going on in the city). I had no idea about the soil contamination. Were there ever any other plans in the past about this area that did not reach fruition?

5 & 6 - I definitely agree with you on Dieppe. Riverview seems keen on staying a small quiet town (and frankly, I don't mind it that much). I always saw them as the Staten Island equivalent of the CMA, and they have nice idyllic spots to contrast the increasingly gentrified and urbanized Moncton and Dieppe.

Another question I suppose--will Moncton continue sticking to stripmall/plaza-type of retail? Are we ever going to get a second big mall (I've read there used to be a the Bay in Moncton proper)? Would you like to see a second mall eventually in greater Moncton?

Thanks for your well-thought out responses.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

1 - Are you talking mostly about the flow of traffic, or are there other services/issues involved in opening Granite? I do agree Granite drive has a lot of potential especially from McLaughlin. I can also definitely see a third Walmart making sense.

There was a big competition for Costco when they decided to relocate from Wheeler Park. The main competitors were Mapleton Crossing Phase Two, the Granite Centre or Harrisville Blvd where the Kent is located (which is why the eastbound exit off of Highway 15 is double wide). The Granite Centre won, and, this has forever changed the big box retail landscape of the city.

Originally Posted by new kid in town

2 - Mapleton is a bit of an odd duck for me. I can't explain it well but it both feels like there's room to grow but also feels constricting at the same time. Perhaps because I feel like Plaza blvd, Wheeler and Trinity Centres already cover a lot of different retail niches?

Mapleton was kneecapped by the decision to locate Costco at the Granite Centre. Just imagine how the retail landscape here would have looked if Costco were located here, and if Cabelas had not been bought out by Bass Pro Shop. Mapleton would have become the primate retail hub in the city.

Originally Posted by new kid in town

3 - Mountain Rd west is very exciting to me. It has a completely different vibe thanks to its elevation, and the Casino/Magnetic Hill makes it feel a lot more tourist-oriented. I feel like it could benefit more from novelty or really big brands with huge draw (which is why I consider it as one of my choices for the fantastical IKEA of the far future).

Your comment about tourism-related retail is interesting. If an outlet mall were ever to establish in the city, this section of Mountain Road could be a possibility given the casino, the Molson Canadian Centre, the Magnetic Hill Zoo, Magic Mountain and the Magnetic Hill Phenomenon. There are lots of hotels here and multiple restaurants. Outlet malls are a tourism related industry and could fit in here very well.

Originally Posted by new kid in town

4 - I've always been curious as to the history of that patch of land. It's wide enough for development and reminds me of open-concept malls like that in California or Toronto's Shops at Don Mills (although we do already have several plazas going on in the city). I had no idea about the soil contamination. Were there ever any other plans in the past about this area that did not reach fruition?

This is one of the biggest brownfields in the country. The CN Shops was much bigger than you probably know. The sportsplex lands in behind (including the 4-plex arena complex) were all part of the shops property, as well as the Franklin Yards across Millenium Blvd. Franklin Yards was less contaminated, thus it being converted to residential. The lands fronting Vaughan Harvey were heavily contaminated. The plan to turn this into an office park was a good one, but, there were many places in the city that competed for the call centres, and this never reached full potential. This industry is now mostly work from home, so, a new paradigm is necessary.

Originally Posted by new kid in town

Another question I suppose--will Moncton continue sticking to stripmall/plaza-type of retail? Are we ever going to get a second big mall (I've read there used to be a the Bay in Moncton proper)? Would you like to see a second mall eventually in greater Moncton?

A good question. I have a strong hunch that in the short term, that CF Champlain will expand one last time to allow for a Simons store, amongst others, but, the expansion will be limited, and, at some point, a second enclosed mall may be necessary. This will be smaller in scale than CF Champlain, but, will be higher end like Champlain Place. Given the rapid densification that seems to be happening downtown, I foresee this to be located in the city centre as part of a major mixed use development. I do not expect this to happen anytime soon, but, in 25-30 years time, almost anything is possible.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Moncton is currently on track to take the #2 spot in Atlantic Canada. If the momentum keeps up we should overtake St
John's metro population in 4-5 years. Possibly even a little sooner!

[new kid in town]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Your comment about tourism-related retail is interesting. If an outlet mall were ever to establish in the city, this section of Mountain Road could be a possibility given the casino, the Molson Canadian Centre, the Magnetic Hill Zoo, Magic Mountain and the Magnetic Hill Phenomenon. There are lots of hotels here and multiple restaurants. Outlet malls are a tourism related industry and could fit in here very well.



This is one of the biggest brownfields in the country. The CN Shops was much bigger than you probably know. The sportsplex lands in behind (including the 4-plex arena complex) were all part of the shops property, as well as the Franklin Yards across Millenium Blvd. Franklin Yards was less contaminated, thus it being converted to residential. The lands fronting Vaughan Harvey were heavily contaminated. The plan to turn this into an office park was a good one, but, there were many places in the city that competed for the call centres, and this never reached full potential. This industry is now mostly work from home, so, a new paradigm is necessary.



A good question. I have a strong hunch that in the short term, that CF Champlain will expand one last time to allow for a Simons store, amongst others, but, the expansion will be limited, and, at some point, a second enclosed mall may be necessary. This will be smaller in scale than CF Champlain, but, will be higher end like Champlain Place. Given the rapid densification that seems to be happening downtown, I foresee this to be located in the city centre as part of a major mixed use development. I do not expect this to happen anytime soon, but, in 25-30 years time, almost anything is possible.

Indeed, that's part of what I envision for our north west end. Factory outlet stores may bring in more business to Moncton especially people from PEI, who no longer have to go all the way down to Halifax. Of course this will probably take a long time before it's even considered by major retailers.

Is Simons the Atlantic counterpart of a department store? Is it somewhat high end? Or about on par with Hudson's/the Bay?

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

Moncton is currently on track to take the #2 spot in Atlantic Canada. If the momentum keeps up we should overtake St
John's metro population in 4-5 years. Possibly even a little sooner!

Exciting prospects! Do we have hard numbers/stats for this projection? Did the newest census become available?

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

Indeed, that's part of what I envision for our north west end. Factory outlet stores may bring in more business to Moncton especially people from PEI, who no longer have to go all the way down to Halifax. Of course this will probably take a long time before it's even considered by major retailers.

Is Simons the Atlantic counterpart of a department store? Is it somewhat high end? Or about on par with Hudson's/the Bay?



Exciting prospects! Do we have hard numbers/stats for this projection? Did the newest census become available?

I read an article a couple months ago which stated that we were on track to surpass 2022's growth, which I believe was 8,784?

[MonctonGoldenTri]

when or if Moncton overtakes St John as the #2 biggest city in Atlantic Canada, do we get a dedicated own Sub-forum

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

when or if Moncton overtakes St John as the #2 biggest city in Atlantic Canada, do we get a dedicated own Sub-forum

Not until you learn how to spell Saint John.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Not until you learn how to spell Saint John.

They were only off by one letter St. John’S

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

They were only off by one letter St. John’S

My mistake. See? Didn't know which one they were talking about.

[new kid in town]

To be fair, in the context of being the 2nd biggest city in Atlantic Canada, it is more likely St. John's rather than Saint John.

[Nashe]

According to Wikipedia (2021 data):

Halifax, NS        465,703
St. John's, NL     212,579
Moncton, NB        157,717
Saint John, NB     130,613
Fredericton, NB    108,610
Cape Breton, NS     98,318
Charlottetown, PE   78,858

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by Nashe

According to Wikipedia (2021 data):

Halifax, NS        465,703
St. John's, NL     212,579
Moncton, NB        157,717
Saint John, NB     130,613
Fredericton, NB    108,610
Cape Breton, NS     98,318
Charlottetown, PE   78,858

Metro moncton was at 171,000+, end of 2022

[new kid in town]

I could've sworn I read somewhere we were in the 180,000-185,000 range towards the end of 2023 although I can't find a source on that now.

While we're on the topic though, this official NB site is horribly outdated: https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/g...0of%2056%20724.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by OliverD

My mistake. See? Didn't know which one they were talking about.

Sorry, I re-read my message and it came off very rude. That was not my intention. I made the assumption they were referring to St. John’s because they are the second most populous city in Atlantic Canada.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

I could've sworn I read somewhere we were in the 180,000-185,000 range towards the end of 2023 although I can't find a source on that now.

While we're on the topic though, this official NB site is horribly outdated: https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/g...0of%2056%20724.

Even that Government data is wrong now. The most recent Census was 2021, which had Moncton at 157,717. Though the more recent estimates have the city at 171,000+, the next batch of estimates will be released on February 24th.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Not until you learn how to spell Saint John.

Nope, St John's,

Metro Moncton's 2-3 years away from breaking 200,000. A first in NB and a huge milestone for the province !