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  #1201  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 4:23 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
And Surrey also added 73,000+ people between 2006 and 2011. That is just over 25% of the total amount of people the province took in. So theoretically Surrey's areas became quite a bit brighter.
Point taken. And looking more for a 2009 map, that is the case. Still, urban form of Surrey has not changed and this will always hinder its ability to achieve high walkability.


Devlin, 2009

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Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
I think Translink's biggest mistake is not giving Surrey (And the rest of the SoF for that matter) more options and more frequent options to take transit. Surrey is actually not that difficult to plan for. The super blocks are about the same size as the ones in Vancouver and it is a grid pattern. The only difference is that Vancouver was fortunate enough to have been developed in a time when "Suburbia" meant farmlands and the sticks, so they escaped much of the mish mash that Surrey has between the super blocks. Regardless of this, the main streets are all straight and easy to run buses up and down, just like Vancouver.

The largely urban North Surrey is barely different than East Vancouver in design. But much of the development in Vancouver has occured due to the frequent trolley buses making travel much easier around Vancouver. You would be hard pressed to remember a Vancouver bus route that had 1 - 2 hour intervals, something that is pretty easy for people in Surrey to remember.
Super blocks are the same, but the inner streets as I've pointed out aren't. And because of this urban form, it potentially impacts the ability for transit to achieve a higher ridership. A transit user is also a pedestrian. One must take into account the entire experience as a transit user beyond the experience on the transit vehicle.

For the record, I'm not advocating transit should be allocated for one municipality over another. I just feel that urban form and transport planning need to go hand-in-hand with one another.
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  #1202  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 4:24 AM
Zassk Zassk is offline
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Many of you are hell-bent on SkyTrain down Fraser Hwy just because traffic and transit are currently so slow on Fraser Hwy. Wouldn't the first and cheaper logical step be to improve Fraser Hwy (as is planned anyway)? Wouldn't a B-Line be a wise investment down this route?

The point has been raised that both Newton and Guildford are 10 minute rides from Surrey Central currently. How far could a bus get in 10 minutes on a much-improved Fraser Highway? How many passengers will be captured on each of the three routes, if all three had the same ease of bus travel?
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  #1203  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 4:28 AM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
And Surrey also added 73,000+ people between 2006 and 2011. That is just over 25% of the total amount of people the province took in. So theoretically Surrey's areas became quite a bit brighter.
Every suburb look much brighter now since many missing amenities were added in (still quite a lot missing though). I remember the place I live had a walk score of low-50s, then I begin to add those missing items, and now it got a score of 82 (This is how I learned not to trust those things...)

Most of the Coquitlam Town Centre now have a walk score of 90-98. But I don't think that map reflect that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
I think Translink's biggest mistake is not giving Surrey (And the rest of the SoF for that matter) more options and more frequent options to take transit. Surrey is actually not that difficult to plan for. The super blocks are about the same size as the ones in Vancouver and it is a grid pattern. The only difference is that Vancouver was fortunate enough to have been developed in a time when "Suburbia" meant farmlands and the sticks, so they escaped much of the mish mash that Surrey has between the super blocks. Regardless of this, the main streets are all straight and easy to run buses up and down, just like Vancouver.
Will SoF have the ridership to support such service? SoF currently got about twice as many km of routes compared to Vancouver, and have less than 1/6 of the ridership. For SoF to have the same amount of service and to have the same subsidy per trip, they would need to increase their ridership by at least 12 times. If not, who will pay for the service?

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Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
You would be hard pressed to remember a Vancouver bus route that had 1 - 2 hour intervals, something that is pretty easy for people in Surrey to remember.
#42/#C19... took me about 2 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
The packed buses frequent service buses that run the Surrey Central to Langley, Surrey Central to Fleetwood/Guildford and Surrey Central to Newton/South Surrey should be replaced with LRT to allow buses to fill in the gaps. With more frequent service, you would definitely see much higher ridership as it would make it infinitely easier to travel not only within the SoF, but it would feed into Surrey City Centre, which is planned to be the core for the SoF anyways. They did this with Downtown Vancouver, and look how that turned out.
I think B-Lines is a better fit for now. As we all know, TransLink don't have much spare cash right now. Converting to a B-Line would further develop ridership for the route before implementing any rapid transit, as is the case for every rapid transit line after Expo.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 4:34 AM
nname nname is offline
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Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
The point has been raised that both Newton and Guildford are 10 minute rides from Surrey Central currently. How far could a bus get in 10 minutes on a much-improved Fraser Highway? How many passengers will be captured on each of the three routes, if all three had the same ease of bus travel?
Guildford is 10-12minutes; Newton is 20-25min... That or the bus driver is going really fast...
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  #1205  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 9:27 AM
TheEmotionalstone TheEmotionalstone is offline
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I WANT to take transit, but here's why I can't...

I've been going through this thread for the past hour and a half and I have read A LOT of posts concerning the fact that Surrey just doesn't have the ridership to be able to sustain certain forms of transit improvement. From where I stand, that argument is a reasonable assumption, but relies on flawed logic.

You see, I live in Cloverdale (Super-block - 188-192st, 56-60Ave) and the most frequent way I travel to and from university is by bus, by taking either the 341 or the 320. The problem I have is that the bus service, for either bus, is infrequent (every 30 minutes). Every day, I have to plan my schedule to the bus schedule, which means that, if I have a class that starts at 8:00am, I have to get to the bus stop at 7:05 for a bus that arrives at 7:19 and gets me to my destination at 7:27. The reason I have to get a bus half an hour early is that if I somehow miss that first bus, I have no other option but to sit and wait for a bus that comes 30 minutes later! (not fun in the winter when it's mostly cold and wet, and there is no bus shelter!)

The only reason I don't walk to school is that I can't be bothered to walk on a busy road that has no sidewalks in the morning when it's dark and there are cars zooming by at over 70km/h. Everywhere else I travel, I travel by car.

If Translink where to increase the frequency of the bus service, I would certainly be inclined to use the bus on a more frequent basis and I can see many other people doing the same.
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  #1206  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 10:40 AM
Echowinds Echowinds is offline
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I don't really get those colour code maps. I don't see how Vancouver's vast sea of single-housing areas are supposedly highly walkable while some other suburbs' single-housing areas are a lot less walkable. I wouldn't call the area around Marine Drive highly walkable, yet it's more walkable than anywhere in Richmond or Surrey. I highly doubt that.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 5:16 PM
Vestry Vestry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
I don't really get those colour code maps. I don't see how Vancouver's vast sea of single-housing areas are supposedly highly walkable while some other suburbs' single-housing areas are a lot less walkable. I wouldn't call the area around Marine Drive highly walkable, yet it's more walkable than anywhere in Richmond or Surrey. I highly doubt that.
The geometry of the streets makes a huge difference in distance walked. Vancouver streets largely conform to a grid. Think about the number of intersections and the length of a block in Vancouver vs Richmond vs Surrey.

Also proximity to transit, a variety of amenities and services helps.
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  #1208  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 5:26 PM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmotionalstone View Post
You see, I live in Cloverdale (Super-block - 188-192st, 56-60Ave) and the most frequent way I travel to and from university is by bus, by taking either the 341 or the 320. The problem I have is that the bus service, for either bus, is infrequent (every 30 minutes). Every day, I have to plan my schedule to the bus schedule, which means that, if I have a class that starts at 8:00am, I have to get to the bus stop at 7:05 for a bus that arrives at 7:19 and gets me to my destination at 7:27. The reason I have to get a bus half an hour early is that if I somehow miss that first bus, I have no other option but to sit and wait for a bus that comes 30 minutes later! (not fun in the winter when it's mostly cold and wet, and there is no bus shelter!)
I used to live in a similar area where all routes come every 30min (and no shelter too!). And since I'm near the end of route, basically the bus can come at almost any time. Worse, I sometimes have to make untimed connection to another route that runs every 30min.

But now, this problem is partially solved as you can now track the position of your bus online. So you can leave when the bus comes near or make alternative arrangement ahead of time if you know your bus isn't coming. It would be less of a problem whether your bus comes every 15min, 30min, or hourly. I wish they had this when I was suffering from waiting at a bus stop for 2+ hours
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  #1209  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2012, 6:55 PM
Mininari Mininari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vestry View Post
The geometry of the streets makes a huge difference in distance walked. Vancouver streets largely conform to a grid. Think about the number of intersections and the length of a block in Vancouver vs Richmond vs Surrey.

Also proximity to transit, a variety of amenities and services helps.
One thing you can't forget is that many suburban areas, with circuitous roads designed to calm traffic, have pedestrian thru-ways between homes to make walking much easier and more direct.

Granted you can't beat a street-grid. I live in an old 1910-1920's neighborhood here in Winnipeg, and its just that; nice, conforming grid, easily navigable by car, bike, or walking.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2012, 12:47 AM
BCPhil BCPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mininari View Post
One thing you can't forget is that many suburban areas, with circuitous roads designed to calm traffic, have pedestrian thru-ways between homes to make walking much easier and more direct.

Granted you can't beat a street-grid. I live in an old 1910-1920's neighborhood here in Winnipeg, and its just that; nice, conforming grid, easily navigable by car, bike, or walking.
Exactly. A lot of these do not show up on Google maps. I live in a condo building at the end of a cul-de-sac(and I thank the stars every day that it IS a cul-de-sac) and there are through paths that take me through to the other side of the Ave I am on, and even over to the next street. Google maps thinks the closest bus stop to me is actually further walking distance than it is and recommends I go to one that is infact 4 minutes longer walk.

And many of the newer developments in Clayton are actually on a grid street system, and with paths usually mid block. Heck, even many of the newer subdivisions in Surrey aren't on Google maps yet at all!
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  #1211  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2012, 10:45 AM
Vestry Vestry is offline
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
Exactly. A lot of these do not show up on Google maps. I live in a condo building at the end of a cul-de-sac(and I thank the stars every day that it IS a cul-de-sac) and there are through paths that take me through to the other side of the Ave I am on, and even over to the next street. Google maps thinks the closest bus stop to me is actually further walking distance than it is and recommends I go to one that is infact 4 minutes longer walk.

And many of the newer developments in Clayton are actually on a grid street system, and with paths usually mid block. Heck, even many of the newer subdivisions in Surrey aren't on Google maps yet at all!
Let's see an aerial photo?
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  #1212  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2012, 9:55 PM
tybuilding tybuilding is offline
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You can add them to Google Maps, I have been requesting Google to add the walking paths and bike paths using the "Report a Problem". A lot of trails have been added already:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=49.130398,-122.859635&spn=0.022437,0.038581&t=m&z=15&lci=bik

I got them to add this for example: Walk Directions
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  #1213  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2012, 1:34 AM
andasen andasen is offline
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Alternativly you can add them yourself using google map maker. (if they get approved then they will go live on google maps)
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  #1214  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2012, 4:26 AM
memememe76 memememe76 is offline
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I live in Guildford and I find it quite walkable, moreso than, say, the Metrotown area. Within a 5 minute walk, I can do my groceries (SuperWalmart and T&T and HMart), get coffee (Starbucks, Tim Hortons, Moka House), go to the library, go to restaurants, watch a movie, and get bread (Cobbs) or produce (Kin's and another produce store), liquor (Guildford Station) and nightlife (Mirage). Granted, Guildford lacks uniqueness (everything is a chain except for the small Asian businesses) and it's not pretty (although the parks are nice). And it's not a leisurely walk. I don't "stroll" along 152nd Street the way I stroll along Robson Street or Davie Street or Commercial Drive or 4th Avenue.

But it is walkable.

I also prefer their bus loop over any other bus loops in the Lower Mainland. It's under cover so good when it's raining or hot, next to the mall, it doesn't have the same criminal element as Whalley or Newton, and it's easy to get to (how long a walk is it to the Metrotown bus loop when the mall is closed and you live along Kingsway? or who lives anywhere near the Coquitlam Centre bus loop?).

But although I am sure Surrey NIMBYS will prop up and be noticed, we should acknowledge and appreciate the fact that there is at least some semblance of widespread support amongst Surrey residents for improved transit. I am planning a trip to Seattle and Pheonix later this year and I always read about big suburbs opposing any attempts to extend their region's light rail systems to their area. That is not occurring in Surrey and the rest of the Fraser Valley region. That is an encouraging sign.

Last edited by memememe76; Mar 15, 2012 at 5:39 AM.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2012, 4:48 PM
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Whalleyboy Whalleyboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memememe76 View Post
I live in Guildford and I find it quite walkable, moreso than, say, the Metrotown area. Within a 5 minute walk, I can do my groceries (SuperWalmart and T&T and HMart), get coffee (Starbucks, Tim Hortons, Moka House), go to the library, go to restaurants, watch a movie, and get bread (Cobbs) or produce (Kin's and another produce store), liquor (Guildford Station) and nightlife (Mirage). Granted, Guildford lacks uniqueness (everything is a chain except for the small Asian businesses) and it's not pretty (although the parks are nice). And it's not a leisurely walk. I don't "stroll" along 152nd Street the way I stroll along Robson Street or Davie Street or Commercial Drive or 4th Avenue.

But it is walkable.

I also prefer their bus loop over any other bus loops in the Lower Mainland. It's under cover so good when it's raining or hot, next to the mall, it doesn't have the same criminal element as Whalley or Newton, and it's easy to get to (how long a walk is it to the Metrotown bus loop when the mall is closed and you live along Kingsway? or who lives anywhere near the Coquitlam Centre bus loop?).

But although I am sure Surrey NIMBYS will prop up and be noticed, we should acknowledge and appreciate the fact that there is at least some semblance of widespread support amongst Surrey residents for improved transit. I am planning a trip to Seattle and Pheonix later this year and I always read about big suburbs opposing any attempts to extend their region's light rail systems to their area. That is not occurring in Surrey and the rest of the Fraser Valley region. That is an encouraging sign.
i have to agree with you guildford is pretty nice walking area.
last year i moved to an area of guildford(around 108 ave) I've actually found myself walking more places since i've moved here then when I lived in central. Its something about the little shops around here that make the area seem more walking friendly in my mind. Also fact i don't have to walk through massive parking lots.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2012, 9:21 PM
Track Track is offline
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I was thinking about the prospective plans to expand rapid transit into surrey, and a lot of people seem to be discussing the merits of light rail vs. skytrain, particularly down Fraser Hwy. One thing has been bugging me, though: is there any way to get light rail (or BRT) down that route? The area around the road has been developed up to the street in a lot of places, and there's not a lot of room to expand for a street level transit option.
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  #1217  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 10:14 PM
theQ theQ is offline
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I wrote to Translink a few weeks ago asking for an update on the promised B-line. I received a reply from them today stating that the route is scheduled to commence on September 3rd! Also of interest, it was referred to as the 96-B line (as opposed to the 399).

This is great news for me as I take the overcrowded 321 almost every day!

Here's a copy of the response that I received:

Quote:
Thank you for your questions regarding the 96 B-Line (399). The line is scheduled to begin operation on September 3, 2012. At the start of operation it will be both regular sized buses and articulated buses(predominantly articulated though), eventually becoming entirely articulated buses.

If you have any more questions or comments please don’t hesitate to contact me.
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  #1218  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 7:35 PM
nname nname is offline
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Well, with the recent additional funding and fare increase being denied, which worth about 55-75M per year, I'm not sure if they will still going ahead with the B-Line and other planned improvements...
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  #1219  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 8:08 PM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
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Well, with the recent additional funding and fare increase being denied, which worth about 55-75M per year, I'm not sure if they will still going ahead with the B-Line and other planned improvements...
Depends on whether the Mayors will go ahead with the property tax increase or shelve the expansions
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  #1220  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:47 PM
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Whalleyboy Whalleyboy is offline
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I wish they would have just increased the property tax along time ago and have it over and done with.
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