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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 12:46 AM
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you can see how thick those walls are, triple clay brick or more, but that's about as tall as they could build before reinforced concrete. These are just like the collapsed Balfour bldg on KW. The exterior walls were load bearing. Unless you added flying buttresses *reserved exclusively for churches and cathedrals* you couldn't go much higher or the exterior walls would collapse from the weight. Unless you built a pyramid but .... whatever...

Lister on the other hand was the next generation in building technology. A interior grid of re-enforced concrete pillars. The exterior walls could be anything light weight because the floor plates are cantilevered off the interior grid of pillars. Now it's usually a glass curtain. but then it was a brick and stone curtain with embellishments. That also marked the beginning of the SKYSCRAPER.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 1:32 AM
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Thanks for the last few posts. I enjoyed reading that.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 2:24 AM
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I don't mean to discredit Fair's source. It may very well be true. I hope it is.
To clarify, it wasn't my source but rather LikeHamilton's source.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 4:10 AM
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Thanks for the last few posts. I enjoyed reading that.
Ditto. Fascinating stuff.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 2:28 PM
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Can the building be retrofitted to meet fire code for residential apartments? Or is this a lost cause?
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 4:55 PM
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They are all interconnected and are part of the sale. The building(s) are fully sprinklered and has a working fire and burglar alarm system.
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 5:09 PM
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Thanks for the last few posts. I enjoyed reading that.
Me too. Thanks for posting all this, realcity.
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2009, 4:42 AM
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Interesting stuff Realcity...

I think that any Victorian buildings are huge fire hazards. A lot of the best looking ones burned down long ago. These problems are not insurmountable though, Stinson School and others would have the same concerns.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 5:16 PM
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Thanks very much to Realcity for the personal stories and knowledge. Great stuff!
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2010, 8:23 PM
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My husband and I, and another couple were both walking by today... and we all agreed... this is one of the places we'd look into buying if the space and price per unit/fees were right. I'd said it before but its nice to hear interest from other people too.
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  #31  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2010, 3:31 AM
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Man I was walking past here today but started from the Cannon side and though would this be a sweet conversion, like already mentioned the park is right there. Anyway then coming about the Mary St side I remembered seeing something about this on here.

Anyway has anyone herd anything bout this recently?
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  #32  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2010, 5:38 AM
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Still for sale, it seems. Looking for a buyer/developer who wants to turn it into something.

$799,000 asking price
$23,000 annual taxes

with 110,000 square feet that's $3.48 a square foot as-is.
107,000 square feet or so is the main space.
16-foot ceilings.

Links:
Listing
PDF

I don't know what the cleanup would cost to make it residential-ready, but a mix of finished and 'white box' units (plumbing/wiring/subfloor, those who buy add their own fixtures/finishes) could go well.

The square footage means you could get in a lot of units... the ceiling heights allow for really great mezzanine levels and living space configurations. Even the parts that directly face the street could be work space with residential farther away.

So you can get big lofts, some live/work spaces, you can get a whole slew of studios and workspaces... lots of possibilities with the roof too for greenspace/gardening/water collection.

It could become quite a varied building, and its proximity to James North means it could tie in a whole stretch of Cannon too.

I'm dreaming, eh? Where's a developer with the vision and the cash flow to do any of that?
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  #33  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2010, 3:10 PM
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I'm wondering if we need to start calling some developers ourselves.

Man If I had money Hamilton would look a lot differant than it does.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2010, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by urban_planner View Post
I'm wondering if we need to start calling some developers ourselves.

Man If I had money Hamilton would look a lot differant than it does.
Hello everyone. I'm a Toronto based developer who happened
to come across this building online and was struck by how it met the street,
the beautiful brick facade, and the proximity to the park.

Drove down to see it this weekend, and I was amazed at the stock of
historic buildings and homes in the area. The building itself is exceedingly
pretty and would look gorgeous fully restored. It has great proximity to the
GO as well. However, I did notice that the roads were a bit deserted despite
it being a weekend and there wasn't a lot of pedestrian traffic either.

I've done some research for comparable conversions in the area and
checked out Stinson's School conversion (which is roughly 7 minutes away
from this property). I would undertake a conversion that would be decidedly more industrial/modern that the one he's proposing solely because I feel that
the intent should be to provide space that is flexible and ductile.


So I'm here on this forum to get some feedback from local residents.
Would you live in the area? What price/sq.ft would entice you to purchase here? What size units would be ideal? Do you see demand for live/work lofts in the neighborhood? What are the negatives that you would prevent you from considering a project here?

A big thank you in advance to everyone who takes time out to provide their opinion!

Cheers
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2010, 8:32 PM
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I would love to live in this area but I think the biggest turn-off for this building is Cannon St. itself, with its fast moving traffic, narrow sidewalks and heavy use by transport trucks. Until that changes, I don't see any residential getting done on that street. Which is a shame, because the success on James North has to expand somewhere. I'd put my money on Barton St. first.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2010, 9:26 PM
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The biggest turn off, as posted above, is the fast moving one way traffic on Cannon Street and the unsightly people that inhabit the park and the Good Sheppard building across Mary Street. Even still, the building itself is an absolute gem and is in relatively good condition given it's age. I'd personally overlook the traffic problems to live in a wonderfully restored, industrial building like that.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2010, 9:37 PM
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I live near the Stinson lofts, and the neighbourhoods are COMPLETELY different, although they're close - different incomes, dynamic, attractions, proximity.

Harry Stinson also has another project, the Hamilton Grand, at John and Main - almost halfway between the Stinson lofts and this building. Completely different projects again.

A project nearby that has more in common with this than the Stinson lofts are the Film Work Lofts nearby on King William. Stinson's buyers are almost all out-of-towners downsizing from houses who enjoy an urban environment and pretty luxe surroundings.

This is my entirely biased, entirely personal opinion, not saying i've got a business expertise with this:

Obviously you have to develop it in a way that makes it the most marketable and makes the most money. Following the Film Work lofts' lead and the units they have could be the most successful way to go - there's obviously a big market for what they're doing, which is awesome.

Given the proximity of the building on Cannon to the James Street North arts district and some of the jobs downtown, I'd also market to Toronto transplants who are moving to Hamilton, but a younger professional crowd looking for great urban space, not downsizers like Stinson's lofts. Those who would rather own than rent live/work space in close proximity to James North.

It is a cheap neighbourhood, but there's some beautiful houses around. There's also a few drop-in centres nearby and some very derelict places too. The park is a big bonus for dogs and kids.

A few months ago, myself, my husband and a couple I know walked by this building. Three out of the four of us are Toronto transplants, and we all agreed it would be great to buy flexible, large units in this building -- but only if the condo fees were low and there weren't a lot of amenities to pay for driving up the price. Otherwise, why not buy a house where the mortgage is only $700/month? I don't like how every 3 bedroom condo in the city has $700-ish maintenance fees -- that drives me far away from buying a condo when houses are so inexpensive.

If I buy a loft, I want large, flexible space that I can build a mezzanine in. And given the location and that the windows are old, I want windows that block out the noise and vastly reduce the heat loss in the winter. I'd even buy a "white box" condo if it was cheaper/had lower fees - I'd love to DIY the floors/fixtures/cabinetry instead of tearing out "builder's beige" stuff I didn't like and putting in new stuff, or paying a premium for higher-end things overall.

There's already projects like the Rebecca Street lofts that are 1 bedroom and a few 2 bedroom spaces, and while there's a bit of a loft aesthetic, the space is too small and inflexible to do anything with... That's definitely useful for a lot of people, but not something I personally want.

That said, I'm only one person, but we don't have much good BIG loft space in this city, let alone one that's reasonably priced for those who would look to own a condo instead of a house.

Last edited by emge; Aug 16, 2010 at 10:59 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2010, 9:45 PM
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I would live here. In fact in 2 weeks I will be moving from the Mountain to John and Burlington St area. Not too far from here. Like everyone else has said the traffic on cannon sucks. But Aside from that I think its good.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2010, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by urban_planner View Post
I would live here. In fact in 2 weeks I will be moving from the Mountain to John and Burlington St area. Not too far from here. Like everyone else has said the traffic on cannon sucks. But Aside from that I think its good.
Welcome to downtown, Urban_Planner. I hope you enjoy your stay!
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2010, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by emge View Post
I live near the Stinson lofts, and the neighbourhoods are COMPLETELY different, although they're close - different incomes, dynamic, attractions, proximity.

Harry Stinson also has another project, the Hamilton Grand, at John and Main - almost halfway between the Stinson lofts and this building. Completely different projects again.

A project nearby that has more in common with this than the Stinson lofts are the Film Work Lofts nearby on King William. Stinson's buyers are almost all out-of-towners downsizing from houses who enjoy an urban environment and pretty luxe surroundings.

This is my entirely biased, entirely personal opinion, not saying i've got a business expertise with this:

Obviously you have to develop it in a way that makes it the most marketable and makes the most money. Following the Film Work lofts' lead and the units they have could be the most successful way to go - there's obviously a big market for what they're doing, which is awesome.

Given the proximity of the building on Cannon to the James Street North arts district and some of the jobs downtown, I'd also market to Toronto transplants who are moving to Hamilton, but a younger professional crowd looking for great urban space, not downsizers like Stinson's lofts. Those who would rather own than rent live/work space in close proximity to James North.

It is a cheap neighbourhood, but there's some beautiful houses around. There's also a few drop-in centres nearby and some very derelict places too. The park is a big bonus for dogs and kids.

A few months ago, myself, my husband and a couple I know walked by this building. Three out of the four of us are Toronto transplants, and we all agreed it would be great to buy flexible, large units in this building -- but only if the condo fees were low and there weren't a lot of amenities to pay for driving up the price. Otherwise, why not buy a house where the mortgage is only $700/month? I don't like how every 3 bedroom condo in the city has $700-ish maintenance fees -- that drives me far away from buying a condo when houses are so inexpensive.

If I buy a loft, I want large, flexible space that I can build a mezzanine in. And given the location and that the windows are old, I want windows that block out the noise and vastly reduce the heat loss in the winter. I'd even buy a "white box" condo if it was cheaper/had lower fees - I'd love to DIY the floors/fixtures/cabinetry instead of tearing out "builder's beige" stuff I didn't like and putting in new stuff, or paying a premium for higher-end things overall.

There's already projects like the Rebecca Street lofts that are 1 bedroom and a few 2 bedroom spaces, and while there's a bit of a loft aesthetic, the space is too small and inflexible to do anything with... That's definitely useful for a lot of people, but not something I personally want.

That said, I'm only one person, but we don't have much good BIG loft space in this city, let alone one that's reasonably priced for those who would look to own a condo instead of a house.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply in such detail! I took a look at the Film Works Lofts project and found it quite attractive, both in pricing and in design. It is rare in Toronto to come across a historic building as beautiful as the Cannon Mills building that hasn't already been re-purposed. Reviewing the pricing for some of the lovely period homes in the neighborhood (which, sadly, seem to have been neglected) I noticed that it would be a lot cheaper to just purchase an entire home than to purchase a condo and pay significant condo fees. Having said that, the cost to bring these homes up to par with a newly converted loft would be substantial, so perhaps a well priced, creative loft conversion would be successful. It's difficult to gauge demand at this point.

I will be researching the neighborhood further. Thank you to everyone who responded to my initial post.

Cheers
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