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  #2721  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 5:53 PM
alki alki is offline
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Originally Posted by InlandEmpire View Post
This really is very impressive....the scope of development going on considering Seattle isn't really considered a boom town like the Texan metropoli makes it even cooler. It seems like we're ramping up almost under the radar a bit.
I would say in terms of apt construction Seattle is in the top 5. SF, MPLS, Houston, Austin etc have a lot happening. For an example, I read somewhere that Central TX [Austin] has 14k units under construction. Another market that really surprised me was DT Chicago..........they have a lot of new construction and conversions [from office to apts] going on. And now in the last 6 mos, DT LA has started to take off but they are a bit late to the party.

Where I think Seattle is one of the leaders is in the number of units getting built in central Seattle..........SLU, Belltown, DT, Ballard, First Hill and Capitol Hill. Seattle is definitely no slouch.
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  #2722  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 5:56 PM
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Vashon, continue to appreciate all the photos. I am curious.....do you have any favorites of the bldgs under construction?
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  #2723  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 8:49 PM
Phil McAvity Phil McAvity is offline
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Where do you guys think Seattle got the idea to build all this urban residential?
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  #2724  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 8:59 PM
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J_M_Tungsten J_M_Tungsten is offline
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Market demand? I'm not sure what the breakdown on that would actually look like, but I would say that is the driving force.
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  #2725  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 9:49 PM
alki alki is offline
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Originally Posted by Phil McAvity View Post
Where do you guys think Seattle got the idea to build all this urban residential?
Its been building for the past 20 years. There already was a sizable residential population in DT as well as First Hill, Capitol Hill and Ballard. Increasingly, living in the city has become very popular. Then after the recession, demand for rentals skyrocketed because of the Millennials, which I believe is the largest population group since WW II, and because getting a mortgage had become fairly difficult. So developers starting going nuts with new projects.

What blows me away is that they are having to reopen mothballed schools and are talking about building a new elementary school DT due to population demands.
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  #2726  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2013, 1:31 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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Close-in housing is desirable, so it fills up and does so at high rents, which are also projected to stay high. Combine that with cheap construction prices and cheap loans, and you have a boom. That's basically what developers look at.

Further, we don't burden developers with excess parking requirements. If we made them do, say, 1.2 per unit, that would often add tens of thousands per unit to the cost of each development vs. the 0.9 to 0.0 we see today (0.8 is probably most common). We're onerous in other ways, including large development fees for some heights and a fairly lengthy entitlement process. But the parking thing is massive -- in particular by making small units much more viable.

Close-in neighborhoods have gained in popularity partially on their own momentum. It turns out a lot of people like higher-density urban districts where you can walk to a supermarket or two, have many restaurants, and have whatever else flips their switch. Add a recovering economy and high oil prices....
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  #2727  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 3:56 AM
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Actually, Toronto may have us beat.

Construction Watch: Toronto Condo Boom




Things are looking up in Toronto. There are approximately 150 high-rise buildings under construction in Toronto, more than anywhere else in North America. The Toronto Census Metropolitan Area (CMA) condominium market set several records in 2012 including: construction starts (24,388), active developments (355), total active units (89,251), and total units under construction (56,866) according to Urbanation, Canada's leading condominium market research company.



In the Toronto CMA there were 17,997 new condominium units sold in 2012, between the five-year CMA average of 20,119 annual sales (2007 to 2011) and the ten-year average of 17,139 annual sales (2002 to 2011), but down from the record breaking pace set in 2011. The active Toronto CMA new condominium market is 79% sold overall, down from 80% sold in Q3-2012 and 82% sold in Q4-2011, but above the ten-year average of 78%.


The average sold index price in the Toronto CMA was $536 psf in Q4-2012 (up 5.2% from Q4-2011), while unsold suites were being offered at $568 psf on average in the fourth quarter.

"Despite concerns over the level of unsold supply in the new condominium market, the ratio of sold to unsold units has consistently been above the long-run average in recent years" says Ben Myers, Urbanation Executive Vice President. "There remains confusion over unsold supply and standing inventory, to clarify, at the end of Q4-2012 there were just 613 completed and unsold new condominium apartment suites in the Toronto CMA - some would be rented out by the developer, some used for construction offices, and others used as model suites for subsequent phases, effectively lowering this standing inventory figure even farther".

Overbuilding was a term cited quite often in relation to the Toronto condominium market in the second half of 2012, however, a survey of developers, lenders and brokers conducted by Urbanation in December indicated that just 11% of respondents indicated that over supply in the new condominium market was their top concern going into 2013.

The resale condominium market suffered from a lack of supply in Q4-2012, as just 3.2% of the 227,700 units (1,285 buildings) tracked by Urbanation were listed for sale in the fourth quarter, the lowest quarterly level in over 10 years. Resale activity declined 14% quarterly in the Toronto CMA to 2,941 transactions. Despite the decline in resale units traded, the Sales-to-Listings ratio increased quarterly to 40.2%, indicative of relatively balanced market conditions.


"Many investors chose to hold and rent their units in 2012 rather than sell them into uncertain market conditions" adds Myers. "This is contrary to the theory that condominium unit holders will panic and sell their suites at significant discounts during a softening market".

Overall, 15,292 resale condominium apartments traded in 2012, down from the five-year average of 15,609, but above the ten-year average of 13,486.


Urbanation is forecasting 14,500 resale condominium transactions in 2013 and 17,000 new condominium sales in the Toronto CMA. 53% of respondents to Urbanation's industry questionnaire expected between 17,500 to 20,000 new condominium sales in 2013, while 42% expected sales between 14,000 and 17,500.


http://www.buffalorising.com/2013/02...ondo-boom.html
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  #2728  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 4:25 AM
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No shame in that. Toronto has just about everybody on the planet beat.
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  #2729  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 4:59 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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Our boom isn't that big by world standards, just by ours, and most of our peer cities'.
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  #2730  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 2:46 PM
RumbleFish RumbleFish is offline
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Comparing what Seattle has going on to Toronto is a joke. It is not even f'n close. Does Seattle even have more construction going on than Vancouver BC? I doubt it.

BTW they are demolishing a building at 700 dexter....does anybody know what the plans are for that site?

Last edited by RumbleFish; Feb 27, 2013 at 3:14 PM.
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  #2731  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 3:22 PM
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Demolition has begun at the site of the first of the Amazon office towers.


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr


2021 7th Ave 2013-02-26 by planet_lb, on Flickr
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  #2732  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 8:34 PM
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InlandEmpire InlandEmpire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
Comparing what Seattle has going on to Toronto is a joke. It is not even f'n close. Does Seattle even have more construction going on than Vancouver BC? I doubt it.

BTW they are demolishing a building at 700 dexter....does anybody know what the plans are for that site?

I don't think anyone was comparing us to Toronto - that city has more going on than any other in NA from what I've heard...at least as far as high rise construction. I do think some of the larger projects in Seattle (Amazon campus, removal of SR99 viaduct/new tunnel/opening of waterfront) are of a larger scale than whats going on in Vancouver. We're faring quite well when compared to the majority of cities our size out there.
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  #2733  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2013, 8:48 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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My comparison was with US greater downtowns other than New York. Chicago has a lot going on, as do some others, but by either total volume (all others) or percentage (big cities only) we might be tops.

PS,

Amazon has talked about digging in June. Demo typically happens comfortably in advance.

Next door, the 39-story 2030 8th apartment just got a shoring permit. They can start digging this week if everything else is ready.
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  #2734  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 4:54 AM
alki alki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InlandEmpire View Post
I don't think anyone was comparing us to Toronto - that city has more going on than any other in NA from what I've heard...at least as far as high rise construction. I do think some of the larger projects in Seattle (Amazon campus, removal of SR99 viaduct/new tunnel/opening of waterfront) are of a larger scale than whats going on in Vancouver. We're faring quite well when compared to the majority of cities our size out there.
Your right.........I didn't post to compare. I simply was impressed with all the cranes on the Toronto skyline and the number of units under construction. And I agree I think we have a lot more going on than in Vancouver. A quick view of the Vancouver city forum pretty much confirms that assessment.
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  #2735  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 2:38 PM
RumbleFish RumbleFish is offline
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Originally Posted by alki View Post
Your right.........I didn't post to compare. I simply was impressed with all the cranes on the Toronto skyline and the number of units under construction. And I agree I think we have a lot more going on than in Vancouver. A quick view of the Vancouver city forum pretty much confirms that assessment.
Not in highrise (12 stories or above) construction. I bet Vancouver at least triples Seattle in that department. Seattle rarely if ever has more going on in that regard... no matter where each cities economy is at. This leads me to believe they are probably building more residential units at least in and around the downtown area. In terms of major road/tunnel type projects Seattle probably has more going on.
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  #2736  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 4:26 PM
seaskyfan seaskyfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
Not in highrise (12 stories or above) construction. I bet Vancouver at least triples Seattle in that department. Seattle rarely if ever has more going on in that regard... no matter where each cities economy is at. This leads me to believe they are probably building more residential units at least in and around the downtown area. In terms of major road/tunnel type projects Seattle probably has more going on.
Statements like "I bet" and "probably" are less convincing that links to actual numbers.
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  #2737  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 4:35 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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Vancouver had a lot of highrises going up when I was there in May. I'd guess it's more. In terms of housing units underway, half of ours (based on a 2,000-acre area) are six stories or so, with a combined total somewhere in the 6,000-underway mark.

Highrises underway or showing signs in greater Downtown Seattle (some numbers approximated):
40 apartment, crane up, rising from hole
40 condo, crane up, just hit ground level (phase I of 2)
40 condo, crane up but might (might) stop at ground level (phase 2 of 2)
39 apartment, site prep done, got shoring permit this week
37 office, demo underway per photos
27 apartment, crane up, rising from bottom of hole
25 apartment, crane up, 2/3 of the way to final height
25 apartment, crane up, 1/2(?) of the way to final height
24 apartment, opening
24 apartment, opening
24 apartment, topped out
13 apartment, topping out now
10 apartment, topped out
10 apartment, crane up, just hit ground level

This might turn into a broader boom in the next year, as a larger volume of offices join the current residential/transportation focus.

Last edited by mhays; Feb 28, 2013 at 8:15 PM.
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  #2738  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 5:20 PM
RumbleFish RumbleFish is offline
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Originally Posted by seaskyfan View Post
Statements like "I bet" and "probably" are less convincing that links to actual numbers.
Ok fine and I am responding to a statement that did not have stats. Show me some evidence that proves me wrong if you are so confident that I am making an incorrect statement.

According to Emporis Vancouver has 29 highrises under construction and Seattle has 7. Emporis is not always 100% accurate but they are usually in the ballpark when it comes to North American cities. What Mhays posted shows that they are fairly close in Seattles regard.

Last edited by RumbleFish; Feb 28, 2013 at 5:38 PM.
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  #2739  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 8:15 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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Oops, two of those 40s (the phase 1 and 2 project) are condo, not apartments.
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  #2740  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:48 AM
alki alki is offline
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This site shows 9 bldg taller than 15 stories under construction in Vancouver. If that beats Seattle, its not by much:

http://www.emporis.com/city/vancouve...dings/highrise
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