The future of Ottawa's Transit

[Aylmer]

Mabe they could make Queen into and avenue!
We can Dream!
Anyway, I think it's a good idea but past the Canal, this is the alaignment I propose:

The line curves up onto Rideau St. to stop at Union, turns down on Nicholas St. (at Rideau) to stop at the current Laurier stop which it then emerges from the tunnel and continues on the current transtiway.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

Mabe they could make Queen into and avenue!
We can Dream!
Anyway, I think it's a good idea but past the Canal, this is the alaignment I propose:

The line curves up onto Rideau St. to stop at Union, turns down on Nicholas St. (at Rideau) to stop at the current Laurier stop which it then emerges from the tunnel and continues on the current transtiway.

Personnaly, I don't see the point of stopping at Union, unless a future Hull link would come under Sussex. If Iprefer the Daly alignment, it's because in a future Rideau subway, stations could be under Rideau and digging under Daly, which would minimise impact on Rideau St.

A Daly/Nicholas stop would be closer to the Market, and would remove the need of a Laurier station. It would also be incoroprated into a Rideau centre expansion, and a possible future line to Hull too.

What I would have really liked, since they have destroyed the parking there now, is to have a bus transfer station at the first level of the parking, much like they did in Montréal for the Longeuil buses.

[Aylmer]

Union could serve as a commuter train terminus and VIA could potentialy return service.
I don't see the relevance of a Hull line...

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

Union could serve as a commuter train terminus and VIA could potentialy return service.
I don't see the relevance of a Hull line...

The tens of thousands of commuters from Hull and from Ottawa disagree with you about the revelance of a Hull line. A commuter train service, unless in a tunnel, will never go besides the canal again.

[Rathgrith]

^Tis true. I have always wanted to see the train station now be turned into a Union of its own and have the future commuter trains stop there with high frequency LRTs running into the city. Add some density and you have another city centre. If I stopping being lazy I'll draw up a plan. Sorta like King's Cross meets Waterloo station.

As for Gatineau, the new inter-provincial bridge should have its own dedicated LRT/commuter lanes lanes.

Its in my dreams anyways.

[Aylmer]

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...09978&t=h&z=17
Commuter Alaignment

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith015

^Tis true. I have always wanted to see the train station now be turned into a Union of its own and have the future commuter trains stop there with high frequency LRTs running into the city. Add some density and you have another city centre. If I stopping being lazy I'll draw up a plan. Sorta like King's Cross meets Waterloo station.

As for Gatineau, the new inter-provincial bridge should have its own dedicated LRT/commuter lanes lanes.

Its in my dreams anyways.

It's actually a city centre, you can't be a city centre without a Wal Mart! I just hope they'll have a tunnel from the Via station to the rail yards. I know there's talks about one for the stadium, but not from the other side.

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...09978&t=h&z=17
Commuter Alaignment

The federal government is not going to give up Union Station! I know it would be nice but it is not going to happen.

[Kitchissippi]

Also, Colonel By Drive is an important and easy to secure route for dignitaries and heads of state to get from the airport to Rideau Hall where they usually stay. There is no way in hell that road would ever revert back to a railway.

Actually just as long as the train station is accessible by LRT, it really is not important where it is. In fact I think it would be interesting if a new station for high-speed intercity trains were built at the airport. That would avoid the slow approach in and out of the city, and free up all the rail lines within the Greenbelt for LRT and commuter train use. The VIA station would be busy enough for commuter trains, and maybe they could even move the Greyhound bus station there to make it accessible to the LRT.

Putting the high speed train station at the airport would put passenger rail in direct competition with the airlines, but it would also link Dorval and Ottawa airports allowing them to easily share flights. High speed trains will need new rails anyway and Ottawa would likely be a stop between the Toronto-Montreal route so it needs to be able to get in and out really smoothly.

[eemy]

Also, people's obsession with the old Union Stn is quite unfortunate, because the new one is by no means shabby. It happens to be one of my favourite buildings in Ottawa, and if it could be the centre of a commuter hub in Ottawa, that would go a long way in improving the atmosphere of the building which really needs some bussle inside it.

[Aylmer]

Yeah, But it's in the middle of nowhere (compared to the old Union).

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Also, Colonel By Drive is an important and easy to secure route for dignitaries and heads of state to get from the airport to Rideau Hall where they usually stay. There is no way in hell that road would ever revert back to a railway.

Actually just as long as the train station is accessible by LRT, it really is not important where it is. In fact I think it would be interesting if a new station for high-speed intercity trains were built at the airport. That would avoid the slow approach in and out of the city, and free up all the rail lines within the Greenbelt for LRT and commuter train use. The VIA station would be busy enough for commuter trains, and maybe they could even move the Greyhound bus station there to make it accessible to the LRT.

Putting the high speed train station at the airport would put passenger rail in direct competition with the airlines, but it would also link Dorval and Ottawa airports allowing them to easily share flights. High speed trains will need new rails anyway and Ottawa would likely be a stop between the Toronto-Montreal route so it needs to be able to get in and out really smoothly.

I agree with you that a high-speed rail link between YOW and Dorval would be hugely beneficial but in my opinion, a central passenger rail station is essential. People who arrive to Ottawa by train should be able to walk out of the station and into the bustle of the city, not find themselves in some godforsaken field trying to figure out the transit system (rail or no rail). The main line of the high-speed rail could go straight tothe airport and make a stop there but then I think every paid trip into Ottawa should let you take the final ride into downtown. Tunnel it if necessary - lots of cities do that.

As for the old Union Station, for me it remains the best place to have a combined VIA station and subway system hub station. VIA trains and city subway trains should all be underground so Colonel By would always continue to function as it does now.

[Aylmer]

No. Destroy Col.ByDrive!

[Kitchissippi]

If you look at the TGV in France, the cities en route between two major destinations usually have stations in the outskirts to avoid a time penalty of having to slow down and use track heavily used by slower trains. If high-speed rail were to serve Ottawa, it would have to be be an en route destination between Montreal and Toronto because only one set of tracks would affordable across eastern Ontario. If the train were to make Montreal-Toronto in several hours, the stop in Ottawa can't take more than a few minutes.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If you look at the TGV in France, the cities en route between two major destinations usually have stations in the outskirts to avoid a time penalty of having to slow down and use track heavily used by slower trains. If high-speed rail were to serve Ottawa, it would have to be be an en route destination between Montreal and Toronto because only one set of tracks would affordable across eastern Ontario. If the train were to make Montreal-Toronto in several hours, the stop in Ottawa can't take more than a few minutes.

Not really, you only need to electrify the tracks to our train station. No need to have a train station near the airport at all. This is how you can keep your trips from Toronto to Montreal without stopping in Ottawa.

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

between YOW and Dorval

Dorval? Someone hates Trudeau and/or federalism.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith015

Dorval? Someone hates Trudeau and/or federalism.

or both. although the former is more understandable.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith015

Dorval? Someone hates Trudeau and/or federalism.

So by saying Ottawa airport, does that mean I hate John A. Macdonald and George Étienne Cartier as well? I'm sure some people still refer to it as Uplands Airport. Old habits die hard and Dorval will always be Dorval for me because I used to live near there.

[the capital urbanite]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Not really, you only need to electrify the tracks to our train station. No need to have a train station near the airport at all. This is how you can keep your trips from Toronto to Montreal without stopping in Ottawa.

....guess we' ll have to wait for the feasibility study

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by the capital urbanite

....guess we' ll have to wait for the feasibility study

What do you mean feasibilty study? How do you think they do it in Europe. They still use many stations in the core of their city, the TGV just goes to normal speed tracks, but there's the need to electrify that section. It's like an highway but for trains, the train can go to normal routes too.