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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 12:05 AM
58rhodes 58rhodes is offline
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Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post
First glance: Neat.
Second glance: Wait. WTF?



The good news: That's nearly 1,000 apartments, which would be great news for Lloyd as a neighborhood.

The bad news: Tearing down the movie theaters will be terrible news for the mall. And the design of those two almost s shaped buildings would guarantee that most of the apartments come with windows directly facing into somebody else's apartment from only a few feet away. Even worse, there's a lot of space that could be challenging to keep safe after dark.

To me, this looks like they're trying to take the cheapest approach possible.
Yikes!!
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  #82  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 12:26 AM
innovativethinking innovativethinking is offline
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Where's the tower??
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  #83  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 2:45 AM
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It looks terribly awkward. I can only come up with...huh?
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  #84  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 4:52 AM
soleri soleri is offline
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I live at the Fontaine, which is one block east of this proposed mess. The missing tower would have blocked my view of downtown. When I first heard of this project, I took a deep breath, understanding that there is no covenant protecting such things. To see this rendering makes me think I might have lucked out.

I can't imagine how this concept would ever be realized but you never know. It seems almost like a hail Mary pass in the fourth quarter of the current boom.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 6:28 AM
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I like that it's not boxy but I feel like the fact that the buildings don't try to revert the super block back to the tradition portland sized blocks will be an issue and the narrow space between the buildings seems dark and uninviting. I'm assuming this project will change a lot over time so I guess we will just have to wait.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 7:01 AM
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Maybe the folks at Holst would argue this with me, but their work has always struck me as heavily influenced by cool, rational European modernism. I don't mean Corbu or Mies so much as I mean what is happening in Europe right now. There are many examples of the elongated, snaking form they are proposing that have been well executed and beautiful. Below are links to two project that embody this form really well and I think successfully...but maybe you disagree?

De Salamander by Loos Architects from the Netherlands

8 House by Bjarke Engles Group of Denmark/New York
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  #87  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 11:02 AM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
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Yes, is does remind me of much of what's happening architecturally throughout Northern Europe right now (and has been for a while; this building, for example, comes to mind). I think it's an extremely attractive and creative solution -- they're fitting nearly 1,000 residential units plus retail into a very irregular site, without a tower. (Or 1125 units, with a stubby tower, depending). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is significantly more residential than Phase I of the AAT development and roughly equivalent to what's proposed for Phase II. So, you know, maybe you folks should be celebrating.

As for whether this design creates 'a lot of space that could be challenging to keep safe after dark', it looks to me like there actually isn't much space that's accessible from the street -- a lot of what might look like courtyard is actually green roof. Moreover, I can only say that having 1,000 residential units' worth of additional 'eyes on the street' can only help towards making the whole neighborhood much safer. The amount of courtyard space does seem a bit stingy -- but then there's a sprawling park right across the street, so maybe the residents will use that (and displace the existing hooligans).
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  #88  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 4:40 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Walch View Post
8 House by Bjarke Engles Group of Denmark/New York
A little OT, but I recently went to the Bjarke Ingels exhibition at the National Building Museum in DC. Pretty much every project was presented in the same way: here is a what a conventional architect would do; and here is what we did [subtext - aren't we clever]. As cool as their stuff can be it grew a tiresome after a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
they're fitting nearly 1,000 residential units plus retail into a very irregular site, without a tower. (Or 1125 units, with a stubby tower, depending). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is significantly more residential than Phase I of the AAT development and roughly equivalent to what's proposed for Phase II.
You are correct, although AAT Phase I is three blocks and Phase II is four blocks, with a giant square in the middle. This site is five blocks and not that irregularly shaped.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 6:17 PM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
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Originally Posted by maccoinnich View Post
This site is five blocks and not that irregularly shaped.
Well I didn't mean it was just the shape that's irregular about the site. It's also the surroundings. It's bordered by railroad tracks on one side, and on another by the pedestrian-unfriendly NE 16th Dr which slopes down steeply to curve underneath the tracks, creating an ugly embankment. On the third side, it borders the Lloyd Center parking structure. So there's only one pedestrian-friendly street fronting this megablock, NE 13th.

The architects have evidently responded by carving up the megablock with new streets (or maybe the city's imposed that as a requirement). And they've created a diagonal pedestrian courtyard/promenade that links the south side of Holladay Park to the neighborhood east of Lloyd Center. Far from being 'cheap' or 'awkward' as others have suggested, I think the design is a very praiseworthy attempt to replace an autocentric megablock with pedestrian-friendly urban fabric and make this neighborhood once more habitable for human beings.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 7:00 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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It is a city requirement. Where there are superblocks with vacated right-of-way (such as this site) the zoning code says you have provide walkways, landscaped areas, and public plazas or public atriums. The location has to be as follows:

Quote:
Where the site lies between two parallel streets which were formerly connected by a vacated street, a walkway connecting the two parallel streets must be provided as a substitute for the vacated streets. The connecting walkway does not need to be located within the the alignment of the vacated streets, but must provide approximately the same connections for pedestrians.
FWIW, here are the underlying property lines and lot lines. You can see the vacated streets. I don't know if those streets ever actually existed in reality or just on paper.



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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2015, 1:04 AM
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Looks like there were never any roads there.

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger...rca%201947.jpg
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2015, 11:56 AM
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There is a tower in the NE corner though. Is that part of this project?
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  #93  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2015, 1:56 PM
soleri soleri is offline
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Originally Posted by RED_PDXer View Post
There is a tower in the NE corner though. Is that part of this project?
The answer appears to be a definitive "no". The project is requesting Design Review Advice on July 30 at 1:30 pm as three six story buildings containing 980 apartments.......

There's some environmental testing going on the northeast corner of the site. I have no idea why but I assume it's connected to the project somehow.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2015, 11:38 PM
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I know its just planning, but that is some ugly chicken scratch.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2015, 11:31 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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I just saw architects from Holst present this. The concept is pretty much the same as what's shown on the previous page, though the drawings are more refined. The scheme is a really interesting way of responding to the challenges posed by the superblock.

They mentioned that they've now submitted their Design Advice packet, so it should be up on efiles for everyone to look at in the not too distant future. I'll be interested to hear what the Design Commission thinks of it.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 12:44 AM
58rhodes 58rhodes is offline
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Originally Posted by maccoinnich View Post
I just saw architects from Holst present this. The concept is pretty much the same as what's shown on the previous page, though the drawings are more refined. The scheme is a really interesting way of responding to the challenges posed by the superblock.

They mentioned that they've now submitted their Design Advice packet, so it should be up on efiles for everyone to look at in the not too distant future. I'll be interested to hear what the Design Commission thinks of it.
I hope it fails because daym thats not a nice development
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  #97  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 12:48 AM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
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You really are a ray of sunshine, 58rhodes
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  #98  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 12:57 AM
58rhodes 58rhodes is offline
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Originally Posted by maccoinnich View Post
You really are a ray of sunshine, 58rhodes
IMO thats too many units for a block that size in the 6 story format

Last edited by 58rhodes; Jul 22, 2015 at 2:42 AM.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 1:17 AM
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I am beyond curious to see the renderings for this one. Holst are not idiots -- I expect their proposal to be intriguing and thoughtful.

Maccoinnich, have you gotten any inkling as to the underlying reasons for taking the approach they appear to be taking? Is it really about a novel resolution of the superblock issue or is it more about avoiding the expense of going vertical?
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  #100  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 2:46 AM
58rhodes 58rhodes is offline
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Originally Posted by tworivers View Post
I am beyond curious to see the renderings for this one. Holst are not idiots -- I expect their proposal to be intriguing and thoughtful.

Maccoinnich, have you gotten any inkling as to the underlying reasons for taking the approach they appear to be taking? Is it really about a novel resolution of the superblock issue or is it more about avoiding the expense of going vertical?
sometimes people sell out
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