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  #1381  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2009, 9:31 PM
cybele cybele is offline
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What conceivable claim could the state of Georgia possibly have to MARTA or the Atlanta airport? They didn't think them up or develop them. They have never funded or invested in them. They've never operated them, maintained them, or policed them. They've never scrimped and saved to pay the bills or battled off the competition. Or are we now in some Hugo Chavez-like socialist system where the government simply declares, "We are seizing all your property and declaring it assets of the state"?

Unless I'm mistaken, the U.S. Constitution provides there shall be no taking by the government for public use without full and adequate compensation. In addition, the Constitution of the state of Georgia -- and I assume the state agrees that it is bound by that – specifically says in Article I, Section III, Paragraph I that: "Property shall not be taken or damaged for public purposes without just and adequate compensation being first paid."

Now, off the top of my head, I’d peg the value of the world’s busiest airport at approximately $350 billion. (By the way, the notion that the city of Atlanta doesn’t own the airport because it collects landing fees from the airlines is ridiculous – that’s like saying Arthur Blank doesn’t really own the Falcons because he collects revenue from the fans and the TV networks).

For MARTA, the eighth largest transit system in the United States, with 50 miles of urban heavy rail, 38 stations, and about 600 buses, I’d say you’re looking at another $50 billion at least.

If the state wants to pay fair value for these assets, I might just say let them have them have it, and we’ll take our money and do something even better. But for the state of Georgia to imagine it can just “take” these assets, I don’t think so. Last I heard Castro and Ahmadinejad haven’t taken over the state of Georgia just yet.
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  #1382  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2009, 9:57 PM
megalopolis megalopolis is offline
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Originally Posted by cybele View Post
Now, off the top of my head, I’d peg the value of the world’s busiest airport at approximately $350 billion.
That's funny, Andrea. Among the world's companies, only Exxon Mobil is worth more than $350 billion, and that's what you would peg as the value of the Atlanta airport?
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  #1383  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2009, 11:02 PM
OCA REP OCA REP is offline
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As far as I'm concerned, the airport is overdue for state takeover, and change the name back to simply "Atlanta Airport" rather than "Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport".
I don't know about the state takeover, but the second part of your statement is right on!
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  #1384  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 1:26 AM
cybele cybele is offline
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Virginia should take over "Washington Dulles International Airport" and "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport" and rename them Suburban Virginia Airport and Arlington Airport. And give me Queens Airports A and B rather than "John F. Kennedy International Airport" and Laguardia. This naming thing has been out of control for ages.
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  #1385  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 1:34 AM
megalopolis megalopolis is offline
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Originally Posted by cybele View Post
Virginia should take over "Washington Dulles International Airport" and "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport" and rename them Suburban Virginia Airport and Arlington Airport. And give me Queens Airports A and B rather than "John F. Kennedy International Airport" and Laguardia. This naming thing has been out of control for ages.
Right, just don't quit your day job at the law firm because clearly you don't have a future in the airport appraisal or naming businesses.
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  #1386  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 2:36 AM
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STrek777 STrek777 is offline
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Originally Posted by cybele View Post
What conceivable claim could the state of Georgia possibly have to MARTA or the Atlanta airport? They didn't think them up or develop them. They have never funded or invested in them. They've never operated them, maintained them, or policed them. They've never scrimped and saved to pay the bills or battled off the competition. Or are we now in some Hugo Chavez-like socialist system where the government simply declares, "We are seizing all your property and declaring it assets of the state"?

Unless I'm mistaken, the U.S. Constitution provides there shall be no taking by the government for public use without full and adequate compensation. In addition, the Constitution of the state of Georgia -- and I assume the state agrees that it is bound by that – specifically says in Article I, Section III, Paragraph I that: "Property shall not be taken or damaged for public purposes without just and adequate compensation being first paid."

Now, off the top of my head, I’d peg the value of the world’s busiest airport at approximately $350 billion. (By the way, the notion that the city of Atlanta doesn’t own the airport because it collects landing fees from the airlines is ridiculous – that’s like saying Arthur Blank doesn’t really own the Falcons because he collects revenue from the fans and the TV networks).

For MARTA, the eighth largest transit system in the United States, with 50 miles of urban heavy rail, 38 stations, and about 600 buses, I’d say you’re looking at another $50 billion at least.

If the state wants to pay fair value for these assets, I might just say let them have them have it, and we’ll take our money and do something even better. But for the state of Georgia to imagine it can just “take” these assets, I don’t think so. Last I heard Castro and Ahmadinejad haven’t taken over the state of Georgia just yet.
aaaahhhh Now that's the spirit! I couldn't have written it better myself.
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  #1387  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 4:48 AM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Delta 747 to make Atlanta debut on Honolulu route

Delta Air Lines Inc. will debut in Atlanta a Boeing 747-400 jet in Delta colors April 2.

The first flight of a Boeing 747 jumbo jet in Delta livery since 1977 will depart for Honolulu at 10:15 a.m. April 2.

Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) has also said starting May 4 it will use Boeing 747-400 aircraft for some flights between Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

Delta obtained 16 Boeing 747-400s in last October’s acquisition of Northwest Airlines Corp, according to a regulatory filing.
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  #1388  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 5:26 AM
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aaaahhhh Now that's the spirit! I couldn't have written it better myself.
Totally agree. I never saw any possible legal argument that allowed the state to get involved in the Atlanta Airport.

The next two days will tell just how dysfunctional our state legislature is. I grew up in Texas in the 70s & 80s and as Molly Ivins could have told you that was probably even worse than the Georgia Leg, but wow. I pray that the fine business people of Georgia will spearhead kicking these fundamentalist idiots out of office.
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  #1389  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 5:28 AM
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
Delta Air Lines Inc. will debut in Atlanta a Boeing 747-400 jet in Delta colors April 2.

The first flight of a Boeing 747 jumbo jet in Delta livery since 1977 will depart for Honolulu at 10:15 a.m. April 2.

Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) has also said starting May 4 it will use Boeing 747-400 aircraft for some flights between Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

Delta obtained 16 Boeing 747-400s in last October’s acquisition of Northwest Airlines Corp, according to a regulatory filing.
This rocks!! My mean wife only lets us go to Hawaii every 5 years and it's coming up next winter. Yippee!
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  #1390  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 11:47 PM
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I never saw any possible legal argument that allowed the state to get involved in the Atlanta Airport.
I'm not familiar with the legal arguments, but my mother in law just waited 1.5 hours to get her re-checked at customs baggage from final baggage claim, and the belt wasn't ID'd with her flight. She spent over 2.5 hours in total trying to get out of the airport. Yes, I blame the final 1.5 hours on the mismanagement of the Atlanta-run part of the operation. Do I think the state could do better? You bet I do.
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  #1391  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 1:31 AM
Atlwest281 Atlwest281 is offline
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The issue of the recheck is a sore thumb but will be remedied when the international terminal is built. It has to do with the layout of ATL not the mis management or lack there of of Atl. Im sorry she had to wait so long it is a drag especially on an international flight,l but its no different then waiting to clear heathrow or JFK customs at peak times of the day. The state would be no able to make this problem go away any faster then what is trying to be done. Unless the state can build a massive international terminal fully complete and ready to open by year end, and they cant. The agents who work the customs and immigrations are not Hartsfield employees they are federal employees and such Hartsfield has limited control over them.
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  #1392  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 2:01 AM
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You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced. As it is, the price has more than doubled. My source tells me that's why Delta is REALLY steamed at Atlanta, because they (Delta) will end up paying the extra cost when and if it's finally built. By the way, Delta HQ is headed to NY. The sports marketing sponsorships are just the leading edge. You read it here first.
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  #1393  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 2:46 AM
Atlwest281 Atlwest281 is offline
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Delta's HQ is not moving to NYC they are focusing on Baseball marketing and on NY sports team, Why? Because its the largest city/metro in the nation it makes sense. The one who has a good share of NYC will have profitability. The failure of th first design had nothing to do with a minority firm being part of the design process. The terminal will be built and the fee issue will be resolved.
As i have said before what delta has created at Hartsfield cant be replicated anywhere even at the new Detroit hub recently acquired and it certainly cant be replicated in Mem or NYC. EWR is bursting at the seems and dominated by Continental, LGA cant do flights over 1300 miles and is cramped and JFK is filled to near capacity and the space isn't there. Will they enhance the other hubs, of course but nothing to the scope of what they have here.
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  #1394  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 2:59 AM
cybele cybele is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced.
I must say that is one of the most interesting explanations for a customs delay I've heard. It's a good thing Obama hasn't gotten a dog yet because he'd be tied up trying to teach it not to run out the West Gate of the White House and that would have slowed things down even more.

Sorry your MIL got stuck. But can you imagine what it would be like if the state of Georgia had been trying to run this show? Business Leaders Losing Patience with State Legislature Over Transportation. Can't imagine why -- it's only been about 10 years.
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  #1395  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 3:02 AM
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atl2phx atl2phx is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced. As it is, the price has more than doubled. My source tells me that's why Delta is REALLY steamed at Atlanta, because they (Delta) will end up paying the extra cost when and if it's finally built. By the way, Delta HQ is headed to NY. The sports marketing sponsorships are just the leading edge. You read it here first.
taze yourself. none of your sensationally contrived, "read it first" predictions have yet to come true. regardless of topic, you look for any hand that holds the race card and you play it with gusto.

i thought you would have been overcome with disgust already and fled back to eastern europe. on with it.
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  #1396  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 3:25 AM
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The failure of th first design had nothing to do with a minority firm being part of the design process.
The failure of the first design had to do with a minority firm not being part of the design process.
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  #1397  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 3:29 AM
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Fiorenza Fiorenza is offline
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atl2phx,

One of these days I'll escape from this decomposting country...hopefully before a iron curtain is put in effect on out-migration, and hopefully before I become a crime statistic.

Unfortunately, I have to hang in here for a bit longer in order to make a living.
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  #1398  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 11:51 AM
Atlwest281 Atlwest281 is offline
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Regardless where you move on earth there will always be problems, distasteful people and ridiculous policies. So unless you are planning to move to a deserted island in the Indian ocean(I know random ), you have to make do and try and make your situation better.

The failure of the design had more to do with that the design, at the time they came up with was going to cost to much to implement, and also the design firm wanted a lot more money for designing it then what had been discussed,. Hindsight they should have built it because it would have been maybe 200million less.

Until the state can work out the transportation issues for Atlanta and the rest of the state, they should not even attempt to raise there hand for ownership of the airport, because we all know what a fantastics job they have done with transit.
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  #1399  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced. As it is, the price has more than doubled. My source tells me that's why Delta is REALLY steamed at Atlanta, because they (Delta) will end up paying the extra cost when and if it's finally built. By the way, Delta HQ is headed to NY. The sports marketing sponsorships are just the leading edge. You read it here first.
Nothing but pure BS - none of this crap is true.

You read it here first, folks.
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  #1400  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 2:45 PM
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This has been quite an interesting discussion. I'm glad someone decided to bring up their personal feelings about ATL's shortcomings to initiate a spirited round of posts. One question I have about the employees on Concourse E is whether they are paid or volunteers? I know for a fact that the Airport has a fairly extensive Airport Customer Service Program, but believe those employees are volunteers. And, if they are paid, you can bet they are not highly paid positions. As for the DL Conn and AirTran employees on Conc C, I have encountered both rude/nonchalant attitudes as well as pleasant/cheerful ones. And, yes, most of those faces were black, and largely female. Also, I recall during the Olympics there were dozens of volunteers staffed at periods throughout the day to assist those arriving into ATL internationally via Conc E. And, there are far more passengers utilizing that facility today than in Summer '96. I think those bodies are out there on Conc E for a reason, and it could very well be in collaboration WITH Delta and other carriers operating internationally @ ATL.

I fly through DEN quite regularly and it's a flip of the coin as to how the UA gate agents are going to "handle" me if and when I have a question. It just so happens that most of these agents are white or hispanic. Does the color of their skin dictate the attitude and helpfulness I can expect? I don't think so, personally. As for why the vast majority of these agents of note in ATL are predominantly black, I say look at the population within a 10-mile radius of the airport. The majority of those residents are black, and I suspect it is because they live in relative close proximity to the Airport that they seek jobs there. Also, if they don't have transportation, they can take MARTA to get to work @ ATL rather easily and cheaply.

I firmly believe in great customer service, and I think that the Airport itself (City of Atlanta, Department of Aviation) has been striving to deliver on a more consistent basis. I've noticed changes in my airport experience @ ATL over the last couple of years in comparison to previous instances. These changes are largely for the better. Of course there's room for improvement, but seems the Airport is largely on the right track. We can post here and gripe about what's wrong and needs fixing, but I suspect most of us have no idea whatsoever of what it takes to run the World's Busiest Airport, or any airport for that matter. I have extensive experience in this arena, so perhaps my perspective is slightly different and at least a bit more informed.

I am a black man, and I cringe just as much, if not moreso, when I encounter someone of my own ethnicity falling short of the mark in giving subpar customer service than with any other race (sadly, I witness this "falling short" event far too often...). Why is that? It's because I firmly believe that my race is often held to a higher standard of expectations, generally speaking, by those of other races. It goes all the way up the chain throughout socioeconomic status and professional rankings. I read online posts, watch body language, listen to comments made by people around me (whom I know and whom I simply observe), and it seems there is a different standard when the person(s) is black. As I said, even I do it, so I am not immune, but it's because I want to see others who look like me do better and strive for more. At the end of the day, I don't really care what color the person's skin is. The standard should be the same for all.

There are surely some who have been misplaced into positions with regular public interaction. It doesn't begin and end at the airport. It's everywhere. All I can hope for is that people generally feel more thankful for the fact they have a job in the current economic environment and that they put their individual and collective pride on display more regularly so it can be seen, felt, and heard. I might be living in a fantasy world, but I for one am grateful for and love my job and try to show it often. I wish more people could feel that way and be more positive.
Fabulous post, Bryant!

Hope all is well with you. Boise, eh?
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