[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[PoscStudent]

Dennis O'Keefe says there will be major developments on the water front in the near future. Any ideas of what this might be? He says there have been proposals to the city, wonder is this going to be something like office or hotel space or is it just cleaning up the area so you can actually walk near the harbour.

[Architype]

^ O'Keefe could be speaking generally, but we do know there is a hotel, and it looks like an office development, maybe. At the rate they are turning developers away, and with the number of projects that just seem to go stagnant, I'm surprised if anything gets built at all.

Maybe somebody else can weigh in on this ?

Here's an interesting letter to the editor (& comments), as to be expected, in opposition to the Fortis project.

LINK - Fortis out of bounds - (entire article)

A recent Telegram editorial ("Startling development," Jan. 22) suggested that the city does not have a bylaw controlling downtown development, only guidelines. This is incorrect. There is, in fact, a legal limit to the height of buildings on Water Street in St. John's.

All buildings, not only in the downtown, but everywhere in the city, whether residential, commercial or industrial, are subject to various kinds of legal limitations on size and use, as contained in both the municipal plan and the development regulations (which most people refer to as the zoning bylaw).

(I can't count the number of media articles, etc. there have been about Fortis.)

[PoscStudent]

Why doesn't St. John's put some sort of a time limit on the proposed developments, "the development must be started with in 2 years of being approved"? I am assuming they would be able to do this.

The council needs to get some sense with the developments downtown. I think they really need to focus on coming up with their own plan for downtown, with pictures not just policies and working with developers. If developers don't know what council wants, besides some policies that they don't always apply, then what does council expect when Fortis proposes a development that does't meet the guidelines. They need to plan out some smart development with modern buildings connected through a series of pedways. People would be more inclined to walk from a parking garage off of Gower Street somewhere to down by the Convention Centre if they could do the walking inside. This would open up parking on Water Street for someone who is running into a store for a few minutes and it promotes a healthier lifestyle win win. I could go on but I won't right now.

[Architype]

^ Pedways are convenient, but too many are eyesores. In some situations, cities can set time limits for development, but I don't know if it's been done in St. John's for this purpose.

_____________________________

For whomever is interested, here is a representation of the Fortis Proposal (Harbour Drive side), as proposed, based on the information known, and estimates. Knowing that compromise is a possibility, the second version is to show what a reduction of height might look like, using the same basic design while trying to maintain roughly the same floor area. This doesn't show much context, except for the proposed hotel across the street, but many existing buildings are about the same height as 4 storey brick base. One thing that becomes apparent is that a shorter building, while protecting more of the views of and from higher elevations (like The Rooms), might also create more of an expansive glass wall effect if the floorplate size is increased.


(drawing by me, not by Fortis - anybody who wishes to use this illustration is free to do so, although all dimensions may not be absolutely accurate, they are to my best estimate, 2 pixels = 1 m)

edit - I guess I could do more variations if anybody has any ideas on this.
(Te other purpose is that a variation of this drawing has been added to the SSP diagrams.)

[PoscStudent]

^ Pedways are convenient, but too many are eyesores. In some situations, cities can set time limits for development, but I don't know if it's been done in St. John's for this purpose.

The city could also look at doing underground tunnels in exchange for pedways, though I doubt they would ever do that.

[PoscStudent]

Did I see it here or somewhere else that city council recently turned down a proposal to re-develop the Woolworth building because it did not meet height regulation?

[Architype]

^ Here's a bit on that; apparently somebody did have plans, and what you suggested is the likely reason it has not been developed. However, I haven't heard anything recently. Does anyone know who owns the Woolworth's building? It would be a perfect site for the Fortis development.

Marriott Hotels has redevelopment plans for the former Woolworth's building on Water Street. It wants to build extended-stay suites, in part to take advantage of an anticipated increase in oil-related travel resulting from the Hebron development.

(Original Source: The Telegram Friday, November 9, 2007)

Web source:
http://www.downtownstjohns.com/news/...es/001313.html

[Architype]

Because there is no thread for Eastern Rural Nfld, I'm posting this article link here.

Feeling the boom
Economic impacts starting to be felt as construction continues on Long Harbour megaproject

There are signs of renewed prosperity just about everywhere. Utility crews are busy installing poles. Millions have been spent on new paving for area roads. There's money for water system upgrades, and plans for new recreation facilities. A new subdivision with some 30 mini-homes is almost complete, and there's talk of a second, even larger one.

A 45-room motel is to be built, along with a large training complex that will eventually be turned over to the town. The number of businesses is expected to double in the coming years, and even the local Catholic church is about to undergo much-needed repairs.

It's all thanks to a decision by mining giant Vale Inco to build a new nickel processing plant in the area. When completed in 2013, the plant will process concentrate shipped from the company's mine in Voisey's Bay, Labrador.

Construction is still in the early stage, but the project has already had a significant impact on the region. Some major construction contracts are expected to be awarded in the coming weeks, and employment levels will increase dramatically from the 500 workers currently at the site.

Complete Source article:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=322828&sc=79

[Architype]

I came across this youtube video ("Fortis Reaction").

This is at least, very funny:

• Video Link

posted on youtube by strissgriss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjKVjPGSER0

[Architype]

St. John's Running Low on Office Space: Economist

Economist Wade Locke says St. John's is running out of office space. Locke delivered an economic perspective on the province to the Newfoundland and Labrador Construction Association at their convention in St. John's this week. Locke says in terms of housing prices they will continue to climb and housing starts will also continue to go up, calling it an exciting time for the construction industry. However, when it comes to office space for business in the city, he says it should cause some concerns. Locke says he's no going to enter the debate on the purposed Fortis Property, but says something has to be done or it could cause problems for future business.

Source:
http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=4000

[PoscStudent]

The video is done good but those antis drive me nuts. First off Fortis has already said they are willing to change the look of the building so it annoys me when people use that as their big reason for why it shouldn't be built and as for your view to bad. Over 50% of the houses downtown are rented so people arn't buying houses downtown for the view they're buying them to make money.

Economist Wade Locke says St. John's is running out of office space. Locke delivered an economic perspective on the province to the Newfoundland and Labrador Construction Association at their convention in St. John's this week. Locke says in terms of housing prices they will continue to climb and housing starts will also continue to go up, calling it an exciting time for the construction industry. However, when it comes to office space for business in the city, he says it should cause some concerns. Locke says he's no going to enter the debate on the purposed Fortis Property, but says something has to be done or it could cause problems for future business.

I was reading that this morning, I doubt it will have any influence on council's decision though. I was reading about the Waterside development in Halifax last week it's similar to Fortis's plan except instead of tearing down buildings it would build a glass office tower on top of several historic buildings. The development was rejected by HRM's council but the company appealed the decision to the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board(NSURB). NSURB independently resolve matters, such as these developments, and they approved the Waterside development stating it would be beneficial for the economy. I don't believe there is anything like the NSURB in Newfoundland & Labrador which is a shame.

[Architype]

^ The video may have been meant as anti development, but it was so funny, I just saw it as a satire, which makes the anti look ridiculous.
I think it is a social commentary without taking sides on the whole thing in general, like something from SNL.

[PoscStudent]

In The Telegram today Dennis O'Keefe is talking about several of the proposed developments that have been discussed here as well as a waterfront development.

Another proposal is in the works for the waterfront. “It’s not (been submitted) to the city, but I’ve met with the people who are behind it and that was only about three weeks ago,” the mayor said. “It’s going to be part of something that I’d like to see, which is the socialization of the waterfront.”

O’Keefe said, traditionally, all you could see from the harbour were the backs of buildings on Water Street, but this proposal would be a start in opening up the harbourfront.

He couldn’t provide further details, but said the development would be in the entertainment area.

Speaking generally about the proposed developments for downtown, O’Keefe said, “All are absolutely necessary if we are not going to rely on property tax and business tax to continue to provide services at reasonable tax rates. It’s going to be extremely difficult to accomplish those things without your support.”

Hopefully we will find out soon exactly what this is and see if it ever gets approved.

[Architype]

^ It would be nice to see some development along the harbourfront. That area has been neglected for a long time. Calling it "socialization" of the waterfront is an interesting concept. Hopefully they can also become more creative and open to new ideas regarding the type of designs they allow there too.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Listening to the radio the other day (Friday early evening, CBC 640) they had a discussion about this and there was one proposal talking about building over Harbour Drive, so the socialization aspect would be above the road. Interesting, but probably expensive, and I can't imagine the height issues if you're already starting at least 5m above the harbour to accomodate traffic.

[NLJP]

I just saw the clip on CBC News: Here and Now. The proposed development is going to be in the Woolworth building, 11 stories, retail space on the ground level and then 4 (I think) parking levels and Class A office space. Shannie Duff was talking about it and she seemed quite pleased with the proposal, because the old building and area obviously don't have much "heritage" value.

Nothing on CBC.ca or the city website yet.

[nando]

I'm attaching some screen caps from Here & Now's broadcast. Interesting development, I'm not too sure how hot I am on how the parking garage looks... I mean do we really want Harbour Drive to feature yet more scenery of parking garages? I would even be inclined to make the parking garage face Water street, and the GOOD face of the building on the other side. Thoughts? The original design, which appears to be from October looks nicer.

[Architype]

Thanks Nando for posting that.

It looks like an appropriate type development with a nice clean modern design.

Parking garages aren't usually very pretty, maybe they can refine it a bit.

The design is by PHB Group, but does anyone know who is actually building it?

I think it says East Port at the bottom, which may be the company name, or is it the name of the development?

[nl_eng]

It's the company name: http://www.eastportprop.com/

[MalcolmTucker]

Can screen the parkade like this:


Source: Mersar