Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[waterloowarrior]

Some councillors losing confidence in city’s LRT project
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/So...008/story.html

Joanne Chianello's take: On LRT, Watson keeps sidestepping the question [great points!]
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Jo...992/story.html

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Joanne Chianello's take: On LRT, Watson keeps sidestepping the question [great points!]
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Jo...992/story.html

That is hands down the best column from Chianello so far. It should be required reading at City Hall.

[lrt's friend]

let's face it. If you want to get around centre town after the tunnel is built, you will be using a bus.

[Davis137]

Ultimately, they will have to have an elevated or sub-terrainian transit system that they can add branch lines to in the future. I don't foresee Ottawa getting SMALLER as time goes by. Eventually the transitway and the current roads will be over capacity, for longer portions of the day and/or night.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

let's face it. If you want to get around centre town after the tunnel is built, you will be using a bus.

Either that or use a bixi. Assuming, of course, you can find one near one of the few transit stations, that is.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

let's face it. If you want to get around centre town after the tunnel is built, you will be using a bus.

And transferring at Rideau Street:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Pl...242/story.html

FFS.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And transferring at Rideau Street:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Pl...242/story.html

FFS.

For the for the love of pete. Why not put the STO buses on MacKenzie King and keep OC on Rideau, or the reverse.

[lrt's friend]

With only 3 LRT stations downtown, the question becomes how do transit riders get from one part of downtown to another in a timely manner? Let's face it, LRT is being designed for commuters and not for people making short trips in the central core. The supporting bus network must minimize transfers for people making those short trips and this may require a reassessment of route splitting or maybe we need a few high frequency circulator routes that connect key destinations in the greater centre town area. That might include Rideau Street, Byward Market, Elgin Street, Bank Street north of the Queensway and Chinatown. The important thing is that there will need to be a full reassessment of bus route design when LRT is implemented.

[MalcolmTucker]

Without any current transitway traffic (routes that travel on the transit way an appreciable amount, as in they would pass at least one other station on their current route), what bus routes would still be circulating around the mall if all things stayed the same?

I can't imagine they would serve near the number of people that transfer there today. But that might be a false impression based on a false assumption by someone who has only used OC Transpo as a tourist or travelling to and from post secondary.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Without any current transitway traffic (routes that travel on the transit way an appreciable amount, as in they would pass at least one other station on their current route), what bus routes would still be circulating around the mall if all things stayed the same?

I can't imagine they would serve near the number of people that transfer there today. But that might be a false impression based on a false assumption by someone who has only used OC Transpo as a tourist or travelling to and from post secondary.

The non-Transitway routes downtown:

1 - Bank Street

2 - Somerset Street

4 - Queen Street, Bronson Avenue (IMO should be moved to Albert/Slater once done)

5 - Elgin Street, Local east of downtown

6 - Local to Glebe

7 - Bank Street, Rideau Street to Lower Town/north Vanier

8 - Gatineau connection (will need restructuring, IMO should become an Ottawa-Gatineau two-way loop, Alta Vista becomes a separate local route)

9 - Sussex Drive

12 - Rideau Street to Montreal Road

14 - Gladstone Avenue, Elgin Street, Rideau Street to south Vanier

16 - Local to Sandy Hill, Albert/Slater Streets (it will gain importance as a local parallel on the LRT corridor for on-street service)

18 - Rideau Street to Overbrook

85? - Albert/Slater to Preston (not sure if that will continue downtown, it could end at LeBreton or there might be other options on that one but it would leave a service hole somewhere regardless - continue to Hurdman via Catherine/Chamberlain and get rid of or reduce the 101? combine with 6 through the Glebe? either way, there would be a hole on Preston)

That is still a fair number of buses for local movements downtown. For those directly on Albert and Slater, the 4 and 16 would be there or nearby, and the 1, 2, 5, 7, 8 and 14 would be available for some movements as well.

[MountainView]

Received this 'Breaking News' notification on my phone about an hour ago...

Ottawa MPs want Confederation Square LRT station

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ot...334/story.html

In my opinion, I would rather see 4 downtown stations, but if it has to be 3, I say have one at Confederation Square. Further - if these MPs want the station at Confederation...fork over some more money please!

[Dado]

How did we get to the situation where about the only people who can't see that we need a fourth downtown station are those in charge of the project, i.e. the so-called experts?

[MalcolmTucker]

Because to keep the project in its budget envelope is a huge objective given the misgivings of other levels of government as it stands. Lots has already been cut to reduce costs. There doesn't seem to be much more low hanging fruit.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dado

Either that or use a bixi. Assuming, of course, you can find one near one of the few transit stations, that is.

All 3 potential subway stations are served;

-Downtown West at the foot of Place de Ville tower C (west plaza on Lyon)

-Downtown East at the foot of the World Exchange Plaza (corner of O'Connor and Queen)

-Rideau Subway Station on the William street pedestrian mall

https://capital.bixi.com/

We will need a hell of a lot at Lansdowne...


As for the three stooges (Galipeau, Bélanger and Dewar), show us the money for a fourth staion, otherwise I prefer keeping the station under Rideau Street.

BTW, Galipeau met with Watson to check out the projects current stations and changed his mind about moving the station (political favor? Harper told him what to think to prevent a debate about more federal $$$?)

From the Sun

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/05/11/...ation-lrt-stop

When Mayor Jim Watson received the letter, he called all three MPs and Galipeau walked down to City Hall to meet with His Worship. Galipeau, who was concerned about not having a stop near Parliament Hill, didn’t know the city was planning a station on Queen St. between Bank and Metcalfe streets.

“I’m very satisfied with the mayor’s answer,” Galipeau said later. The Ottawa-Orleans MP said he wasn’t given enough time to research the matter before signing the letter.

Watson was shocked Galipeau didn’t do his homework.

“To his credit, he was good enough to admit he didn’t have all the facts,” Watson said.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The non-Transitway routes downtown:

1 - Bank Street

2 - Somerset Street

4 - Queen Street, Bronson Avenue (IMO should be moved to Albert/Slater once done)

5 - Elgin Street, Local east of downtown

6 - Local to Glebe

7 - Bank Street, Rideau Street to Lower Town/north Vanier

8 - Gatineau connection (will need restructuring, IMO should become an Ottawa-Gatineau two-way loop, Alta Vista becomes a separate local route)

9 - Sussex Drive

12 - Rideau Street to Montreal Road

14 - Gladstone Avenue, Elgin Street, Rideau Street to south Vanier

16 - Local to Sandy Hill, Albert/Slater Streets (it will gain importance as a local parallel on the LRT corridor for on-street service)

18 - Rideau Street to Overbrook

85? - Albert/Slater to Preston (not sure if that will continue downtown, it could end at LeBreton or there might be other options on that one but it would leave a service hole somewhere regardless - continue to Hurdman via Catherine/Chamberlain and get rid of or reduce the 101? combine with 6 through the Glebe? either way, there would be a hole on Preston)

That is still a fair number of buses for local movements downtown. For those directly on Albert and Slater, the 4 and 16 would be there or nearby, and the 1, 2, 5, 7, 8 and 14 would be available for some movements as well.

Do these currently all run on Rideau Street?

I fully support having the local routes from the west running on the Mackenzie King Bridge for various reasons; without getting into the whole Rideau expansion conversation, it might A. Bring Cadillac Fairview to make some sort of financial contribution to the project and B. Get a good chunk of the buses off Rideau Street.

As for the STO, 3 words; DOWNTOWN TRAM LOOP

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Do these currently all run on Rideau Street?

I fully support having the local routes from the west running on the Mackenzie King Bridge for various reasons; without getting into the whole Rideau expansion conversation, it might A. Bring Cadillac Fairview to make some sort of financial contribution to the project and B. Get a good chunk of the buses off Rideau Street.

As for the STO, 3 words; DOWNTOWN TRAM LOOP

That downtown loop would be Route 8, which if they wanted to co-operate, could be shared between OC and STO (OC could run the clockwise loop through Chaudiere first in Gatineau and the Byward Market first in Ottawa, STO could run the counter-clockwise loop through the Museum of Civilization first in Gatineau and LeBreton first in Ottawa). Note the 8 would NOT go on to Alta Vista in that setup; that area would be a separate route.

The current downtown pattern is:

Rideau Street: 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12, 14, 18 (STO)

Mackenzie King Bridge: 5, 8, 18, 85 (86, 87, 90s, peak/express routes - those will probably be cut back or removed)

If there was a west/east pattern, the downtown flow would be like:

On Rideau Street: 8, 9, 12, 18, 90s late night (buses would need to replace trains to the suburbs from about 1 am to 5 am for maintenance purposes)

On Mackenzie King Bridge: 2, 4, 6, 16, 85

Could go on either unless the routes are split: 1, 5, 7, 14

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Dado

How did we get to the situation where about the only people who can't see that we need a fourth downtown station are those in charge of the project, i.e. the so-called experts?

No idea!!! I think we should take over the project...

Increasing from $2.1B to $2.2B should not be that significant. It could easily be found through private sources or the NCC.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

That downtown loop would be Route 8, which if they wanted to co-operate, could be shared between OC and STO (OC could run the clockwise loop through Chaudiere first in Gatineau and the Byward Market first in Ottawa, STO could run the counter-clockwise loop through the Museum of Civilization first in Gatineau and LeBreton first in Ottawa). Note the 8 would NOT go on to Alta Vista in that setup; that area would be a separate route.

The current downtown pattern is:

Rideau Street: 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12, 14, 18 (STO)

Mackenzie King Bridge: 5, 8, 18, 85 (86, 87, 90s, peak/express routes - those will probably be cut back or removed)

If there was a west/east pattern, the downtown flow would be like:

On Rideau Street: 8, 9, 12, 18, 90s late night (buses would need to replace trains to the suburbs from about 1 am to 5 am for maintenance purposes)

On Mackenzie King Bridge: 2, 4, 6, 16, 85

Could go on either unless the routes are split: 1, 5, 7, 14

Sounds like the whole thing could work fine. The extra transfer for the people on route 8 going to Gatineau kind of blows, but I think the benefits of the “Loop” greatly outweigh the few drawbacks.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

With only 3 LRT stations downtown, the question becomes how do transit riders get from one part of downtown to another in a timely manner? Let's face it, LRT is being designed for commuters and not for people making short trips in the central core.

And rightly so; LRT shouldn't be the local...

The supporting bus network must minimize transfers for people making those short trips and this may require a reassessment of route splitting or maybe we need a few high frequency circulator routes that connect key destinations in the greater centre town area. That might include Rideau Street, Byward Market, Elgin Street, Bank Street north of the Queensway and Chinatown. The important thing is that there will need to be a full reassessment of bus route design when LRT is implemented.

And there is one.

And they are bent on making things worse.

Effity effity effity eff eff EFF.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dado

How did we get to the situation where about the only people who can't see that we need a fourth downtown station are those in charge of the project, i.e. the so-called experts?

Same way we get to every transit eff-up in this town: the people who design and plan and fund the system don't actually use transit, and don't give two flying frigs about people who do.