Do suburbanites use a ridiculousy extensive definition of "downtown"?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Yeah totally for DC. For anyone who lives outside the Beltway, "downtown" is all of the District of Columbia, or at least most of it.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Considering that this does happen in Chicago, and that Chicago is bigger than Houston by every conceivable measure, the size of the city isn't the determining factor here.

It'd be interesting to compare other cities with tightly-encircling downtown loop highways. I assume Dallas is probably the same as Houston. How about Phoenix where the loop is just a *little* further out? Or how about Detroit where there is a clear non-downtown delineation between the city and the suburbs?

Downtown Phoenix has a tight-loop about 2 miles by 3 miles but north of downtown is a tunnel and for several blocks its a park with urban development happening both north and south of it.

People that live centrally will define the areas as Downtown Midtown Uptown(and/or) North Central, also "biltmore" However I have heard relatives that live way out in the suburbs just refer to the whole area as downtown or near downtown or outside of downtown. Calling the whole thing "central Phoenix" has become common as well, generally defining the older areas most this website would consider, early "first ring" Suburbs and old town centers. We also have some major highway loops and mountains that help define what is "central" and what is not and it has very little to do with city limit borders.

I now live in "midtown" but if somebody asked my parents or Sister where I live who isn't familiar with town would just say "downtown" near Downtown or Central Phoenix.

You have to keep in Mind we are still relatively "new" so there isnt an incredibly long history of what areas are what and what they are called, what is today "central phoenix" was ...well the whole metro in 1965. Its not like its had multiple generations of people to really set a hard definition. Still in process.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Trae

A few people I know would call anything between Uptown and Downtown (so include Greenway, TMC, etc.) as "Downtown". Going to the Galleria was just one part of Downtown in their eyes. These were people that lived west of The Grand Parkway in the Katy area, so going to Uptown was basically like going Downtown for them. So I'd say a few suburbanites in Houston consider the western half of the loop all as Downtown. To me it didn't make sense but then again, I'm a geography nerd.

I've also heard going "into the city" as well to reference anything in and around the Inner Loop.

Those people must not have a whole lot of contact with Houston proper then because anyone familiar with Uptown and Downtown would never conflate these two areas which are about 10 miles apart and a very different urban fabric. Maybe Downtown and Midtown perhaps.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by Trae

A few people I know would call anything between Uptown and Downtown (so include Greenway, TMC, etc.) as "Downtown". Going to the Galleria was just one part of Downtown in their eyes. These were people that lived west of The Grand Parkway in the Katy area, so going to Uptown was basically like going Downtown for them. So I'd say a few suburbanites in Houston consider the western half of the loop all as Downtown. To me it didn't make sense but then again, I'm a geography nerd.

I've also heard going "into the city" as well to reference anything in and around the Inner Loop.

Yep, me too. Sometimes I hear it for the inner Beltway as well.

[Trae]

Originally Posted by JManc

Those people must not have a whole lot of contact with Houston proper then because anyone familiar with Uptown and Downtown would never conflate these two areas which are about 10 miles apart and a very different urban fabric. Maybe Downtown and Midtown perhaps.

Yeah their whole lives was west of the Beltway.

[GlassCity]

Vancouver's downtown has water or forest on three of its sides so downtown is generally considered the same by everyone. Where the Downtown Eastside ends is a little more ambiguous, but I think most people would still have a pretty similar definition.

The one difference I've heard is suburbanites referring to places just across the inlet south of downtown, so the Broadway corridor, as downtown, when it definitely is not.

[PoshSteve]

I notice this all the time in Cleveland. Much more common when they live further out in the exurbs. Its very common for them to say they're "going to the Cleveland Clinic Downtown" - which is two neighborhoods and almost 4 miles away in University Circle. The other day I even saw someone posting photos on Facebook saying they were Downtown when they were in the Cedar-Fairmount shopping area in the suburb of Cleveland Hts over 5 miles away.

Whats strange though is those same people can easily differentiate when they're in Ohio City of Tremont - two trendy and popular neighborhoods which border Downtown to the west. I think part of it in Cleveland comes from the tendency to just ignore the east side (black) neighborhoods. To alot of people they're all just part of "the ghetto" and lumped together. If they're on the east side and its not a bad neighborhood (like University Circle, or Cedar-Fairmount) ... well it just must be Downtown since the east side is supposed to be all ghetto.

[Obadno]

Here is one, My snap chat filters say Im downtown even though Im almost 3 miles north of downtown.

Hows that for a deliniation? Snapchat filters

[KevinFromTexas]

On Houston, actually, whenever we're in Houston my mom suggests that the Uptown/Galleria area of Houston is downtown Houston, even though the Williams Tower is 5 1/2 miles from the western edge of downtown.

She also says UT in Austin is downtown, even though it's not and often isn't even governed by the same restrictions that downtown does. I suppose that one is forgivable since UT technically forms the same skyline as downtown does, but the two have never been part of the same neighborhood.

Her anecdote has more to do with "Look, there are tall buildings...so, it's downtown."

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

On Houston, actually, whenever we're in Houston my mom suggests that the Uptown/Galleria area of Houston is downtown Houston, even though the Williams Tower is 5 1/2 miles from the western edge of downtown.

She also says UT in Austin is downtown, even though it's not and often isn't even governed by the same restrictions that downtown does. I suppose that one is forgivable since UT technically forms the same skyline as downtown does, but the two have never been part of the same neighborhood.

Her anecdote has more to do with "Look, there are tall buildings...so, it's downtown."

Speaking as someone with all the authority of having seen maps of Austin and having never been east of Utah in the US, I thought of UT in Austin as being downtown as well.

[mikecolley]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Her anecdote has more to do with "Look, there are tall buildings...so, it's downtown."

Can confirm. I used to live in the Galleria area, and my parents always thought I lived downtown when they visited me. I don't think they ever fully grasped that downtown was 6 miles to the east.

[benp]

Originally Posted by JManc

I've never heard anyone in suburban Houston stretch the term 'downtown' with respect of other areas of town. Downtown Houston strictly means downtown Houston otherwise people use corresponding neighborhood terms for those areas. People are also not that cut off from Houston proper and are in and out of town enough to be familiar with most of the city to know what is or isn't downtown, Midwtown, the Galleria, Eastside, West U and so on.

Disagree. I've heard people in Clear Lake refer to many areas inside the loop (like Upper Kirby, Westheimer, etc) as "downtown." "Downtown to the Apple Store", "Downtown to The dome" "Downtown to Lakewood" etc.
I live south of Montrose, and co-workers tell me I live "downtown."

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by JManc

I've never heard anyone in suburban Houston stretch the term 'downtown' with respect of other areas of town. Downtown Houston strictly means downtown Houston otherwise people use corresponding neighborhood terms for those areas. People are also not that cut off from Houston proper and are in and out of town enough to be familiar with most of the city to know what is or isn't downtown, Midwtown, the Galleria, Eastside, West U and so on.

Same with Austin. Downtown is the highrise central core from the Capitol down to the river. I live pretty close to downtown (like 4 miles), but I can't imagine anyone thinking I live "downtown".

[xzmattzx]

Wilmington is small enough where Downtown is pretty small, so there isn't too much confusion. But, neighborhoods are still blended together by people not as geographically savvy as us on here, such as Little Italy, Hilltop, Bayard Square, etc all called the West Side, or Triangle, the Ninth Ward, etc all called North Wilmington, and so on.

"Downtown" is also a name most people can remember. The average person knows other neighborhoods, like Hollywood in Los Angeles, or Midtown in Manhattan, or the Strip in/near Las Vegas. But obscure neighborhoods just get lumped together.

On top of the general public not being as good at geography as nerds like us, this is also a game of relativity, as mentioned earlier. An average person from La Plata, Maryland, is going to get into Washington DC and consider most of the central core to be Downtown, whether it is or isn't. But someone living in DC is going to know when they are in Downtown, or Capitol Hill, of Adams Morgan, etc. It's like if you go out of town and someone asks where you're from. Someone from Parma, Ohio, will tell people they're from Cleveland, even though they literally aren't from Cleveland. Or, someone from Natick, Massachusetts, will say they're from Boston, even though they don't live in Boston.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Vancouver's downtown has water or forest on three of its sides so downtown is generally considered the same by everyone. Where the Downtown Eastside ends is a little more ambiguous, but I think most people would still have a pretty similar definition.

The one difference I've heard is suburbanites referring to places just across the inlet south of downtown, so the Broadway corridor, as downtown, when it definitely is not.

Many people consider only a small part of the peninsula to be "Downtown." I've seen local planning docs do the same sometimes.

The Wikipedia entry suggests it omits the West End: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Vancouver
City planning doc (I didn't read the whole thing) is similar to the Wikipedia page: https://bylaws.vancouver.ca/odp/dd.pdf

[Cirrus]

Another broad point to add to this discussion: Has "going downtown" but meaning the entire core city area supplanted the older (and rarely used anymore) term "going into town?"

People don't want to admit they don't live in town. So they don't want to say that. But they need a term for the central area, so they say downtown even when they don't really mean it.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Speaking as someone with all the authority of having seen maps of Austin and having never been east of Utah in the US, I thought of UT in Austin as being downtown as well.

Historically, downtown Austin was defined as the area from north to south between 1st Street (now Cesar Chavez) and North Avenue (now 15th Street) and from east to west from West Avenue to East Avenue. I-35 replaced East Avenue in the 1950s.

Today, the boundary lines are from north to south between Cesar Chavez and MLK (19th Street), and from east to west between Lamar Boulevard and I-35.

North of MLK is where UT begins and stops around 30th Street, and it runs east to west from I-35 to Guadalupe Street.

The funny thing is no one calls West Campus part of downtown even though it's immediately west of UT and has about a dozen high rises itself.

[Pavlov's Dog]

In my experience Portland's "downtown" is mostly correctly defined in suburbanites' minds as the area between the 405 and Willamette River and usually South of Burnside. Unless they're really new to the area most people seem to be fairly aware of things. They know the Pearl District is not downtown and call it that, for example, even though the two blend together visually and geographically.

Growing up, people in Washington County thought of North and Northeast Portland as really bad areas due to the "ghetto" and a very large proportion of the metro area's violent crime (and population). The people in my community were shocked when we moved to NE Portland when I was a teenager in the 80's. Now of course there is very little violent crime in the city and the coolest neighborhoods are in inner NE and SE and North Portland. I remember going to a party in a crack house in 1989 just feet from the now cool and thoroughly gentrified Mississippi Street.

Now, not being willing, or even eager, to visit inner city neighborhoods from outlying areas really stamps one as a simpleton or a newcomer with a closed mind. I think the development has mostly been very positive except maybe the city people look down on suburbanites (especially Clark County, Washington) these days.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by benp

Disagree. I've heard people in Clear Lake refer to many areas inside the loop (like Upper Kirby, Westheimer, etc) as "downtown." "Downtown to the Apple Store", "Downtown to The dome" "Downtown to Lakewood" etc.
I live south of Montrose, and co-workers tell me I live "downtown."

Those must be old fashioned folks because I grew up that way and no one ever called anything Downtown that wasn't.

[Trae]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Another broad point to add to this discussion: Has "going downtown" but meaning the entire core city area supplanted the older (and rarely used anymore) term "going into town?"

People don't want to admit they don't live in town. So they don't want to say that. But they need a term for the central area, so they say downtown even when they don't really mean it.

Never seen anyone afraid to admit they don't live in town and the phrase "going into town" or "going into the city" is still widely used. I hear it often in LA, SF, and heard it quite a bit in Houston and DFW (not as much in DFW as it was mostly "going to Dallas").

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Another broad point to add to this discussion: Has "going downtown" but meaning the entire core city area supplanted the older (and rarely used anymore) term "going into town?"

People don't want to admit they don't live in town. So they don't want to say that. But they need a term for the central area, so they say downtown even when they don't really mean it.

in chicagoland's case, i think it's much more common for suburbanites to simply say "going into the city" for any foray into the urban core of the city (which in chicago's case is an area FAR larger than just "downtown").

of course you still have those who'll confuse a place like wrigely field for being "downtown", but i think a majority are savvy enough to know the difference, and hence "going into the city" covers all of the bases, clearly gets the point across, and avoids the whole ambiguously-defined "downtown" problem.