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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:00 PM
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Well, this thread certainly got interesting.
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  #102  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:03 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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Furthermore, the tenants of this new downtown Center will be new shops and new restaurants that will take away clients and parking spaces from already established shops and restaurants in the downtown area. All we ever hear about is the “roll over” effects of the visitors or user spending in restaurants, hotels, gift shops, etc. The idea that if you build it they will come, only works in the movies. Politicians project numbers from their imaginations with absolutely no understanding that a big project absolutely needs lots of on-site parking and then they ask architect firms what they think. Of course, the architects agree that it should be built and they will pull up examples of other similar projects that have been a great success, yet none of these other projects has ever put out a set of hard numbers, operating statements, revenues, management, marketing, maintenance, replacement reserves, utilities, etc.
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Vorkuta View Post
Have you seen Gorge Road after a concert on the hill? That will be 114 after a game.
Save your breath Vorkuta, this guy obviously has an agenda......

I recall about 3-4 years ago, there was some guy busily hawking an old farm on Coverdale Road as the perfect site for the events centre. I think this fellow must be one and the same with the current poster. His proposal had no credence then, and nothing has changed. The only reason why he is proposing this is because he thinks he can make a profit on sales of adjacent land.

This is nothing more than pure hucksterism and self promotion......
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:09 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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Every failed project is supported by feasibility studies that are based on “dream world economics.” No on-site parking, no space to expand and no land-leasing possibility are a guaranteed recipe for failure.
Read the following carefully: http://www.eurasiareview.com/2306201...es-build-oped/
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Save your breath Vorkuta, this guy obviously has an agenda......

I recall about 3-4 years ago, there was some guy busily hawking an old farm on Coverdale Road as the perfect site for the events centre. I think this fellow must be one and the same with the current poster. His proposal had no credence then, and nothing has changed. The only reason why he is proposing this is because he thinks he can make a profit on sales of adjacent land.

This is nothing more than pure hucksterism and self promotion......
Yes, I remember that story. This whole discussion is essentially spam. Stop feeding the troll, people!
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  #106  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:19 PM
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You are ignoring a ton of really obvious factors:

- Some event attendees would be staying in downtown hotels and thus have no need to drive anywhere.
- Some event attendees would live within walking distance of the event centre.
- Shuttle services can be provided for people who park their cars outside of the downtown core.
- Transit could be expanded with additional runs to bus people to and from the event centre.
Quite true, just look at Harbour Station here in Saint John. Last night was a sold-out concert of over 7200, and Uptown restaurants and shops were noticeably busier than normal for at least two hours before the show (I can attest to this as a resident of the area), and there was definite overflow from the concert into local bars and pubs afterward as well. This is without even mentioning the concept that the thousands of people who live in the urban core don't have to drive and park to see these kinds of concerts or sports games, and that the area is served by the primary transit routes as well. That's the whole point of trying to put a similar centre in Moncton, so that you can maximise the economic benefits of each event, as well as increasing the appeal of living in the urban core of your city (which has far-reaching implications for how your city grows and the long-term cost savings it can reap).
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  #107  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn View Post
Summary: It is unwise to spend public funds on big sports venues as they always lose money.
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn
GREAT SUPPORT. City of Moncton clearly states that it will not offer financial guarantees nor would it offer any financial support for the construction and the upkeep of the Center, the financial risk of operating losses will have to be borne solely on the builder and his partners.
Summary: By trying to avoid spending public funds on a big sports venue, the City of Moncton is demonstrating a lack of interest and vision in the project.

So which is it? You can't on one hand say that the City shouldn't back a losing deal and on the other say that it should.
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  #108  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:33 PM
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Unlearn- relearn.. You are hilarious, I pass that site all the time, it is the worst location for anything, I remember back when the owner was all tears because they told him they wouldn't build a racino out there...

You don't know what your talking about and couldn't educate anyone in this situation, your only argument each time is parking, and again parking... we don't live in Ottawa, we don't need to build Scotia Bank place in Kanata. If you don't think there would be enough parking, you don't understand how simple they could build parking garages and underground parking.

Good luck educating the already educated! Sorry we all aren't crazy.
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  #109  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:35 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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"""So which is it? You can't on one hand say that the City shouldn't back a losing deal and on the other say that it should.""" It's called sado-masochism, feels good.

Basically what I have been saying from the start is that it makes no difference what City of Moncton says, they are not putting their money where their mouth is. And if they don't why should anyone else? Investors will only come out when the correct location (Lower Coverdale) will be approved, they'll come out because they will have a huge parcels of land over 90 acres, practically for free, no hard cash to put up in the beginning, lots of future expansion for the future, over 3,500 on-site parking spots, and a possibility to lease the land. When you buy the land you are responsible for that bank loan, here all that is required is monthly lease payments, and after 25 years, the same length as the bank loan, they can buy the land for only ONE DOLLAR. That's sweet stuff.
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  #110  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn View Post
Basically what I have been saying from the start is that it makes no difference what City of Moncton says, they are not putting their money where their mouth is. And if they don't why should anyone else? Investors will only come out when the correct location (Lower Coverdale) will be approved, they'll come out because they will have a huge parcels of land over 90 acres, practically for free, no hard cash to put up in the beginning, lots of future expansion for the future, over 3,500 on-site parking spots, and a possibility to lease the land. When you buy the land you are responsible for that bank loan, here all that is required is monthly lease payments, and after 25 years, the same length as the bank loan, they can buy the land for only ONE DOLLAR. That's sweet stuff.
If what you are saying is true, then you'll have no problem getting your center built there without the City's help. You hardly need their blessing, considering they won't be investing in it. Looks like you have all you need to get it going with private investment. When's the sod-turning ceremony?
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  #111  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:46 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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"""you don't understand how simple they could build parking garages and underground parking""" Education is what prevents people from saying ridiculous untruths. Read this and see why underground parking costs between $30,000 and $50,000 PER SPOT. http://emergentmath.com/2012/03/22/u...stems-problem/
$30,000 X 3,500 spots = $105 million You call that simple? You're a rich man.
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  #112  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 5:53 PM
pierremoncton pierremoncton is online now
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn View Post
Basically what I have been saying from the start is that it makes no difference what City of Moncton says, they are not putting their money where their mouth is. And if they don't why should anyone else? Investors will only come out when the correct location (Lower Coverdale) will be approved, they'll come out because they will have a huge parcels of land over 90 acres, practically for free, no hard cash to put up in the beginning, lots of future expansion for the future, over 3,500 on-site parking spots, and a possibility to lease the land. When you buy the land you are responsible for that bank loan, here all that is required is monthly lease payments, and after 25 years, the same length as the bank loan, they can buy the land for only ONE DOLLAR. That's sweet stuff.
I'm curious: are you saying that this sort of sprawl is inevitable because governments are cheap, incompetent and short-sighted (and you're therefore being pragmatic and/or opportunistic), or are you promoting it because you think it's actually a good idea for the community (not just your own pockets)?

Btw: I know that MonctonRad and NBNYer are suggesting that we ignore Unlearn, but I find this interesting. I think the proposal is nonsense but I wouldn't put it past certain leaders to accept it, just like they accepted Royal Oaks High and the new jail in the middle of nowhere.
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  #113  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn View Post
Read this and see why underground parking costs between $30,000 and $50,000 PER SPOT. http://emergentmath.com/2012/03/22/u...stems-problem/
$30,000 X 3,500 spots = $105 million You call that simple? You're a rich man.
Sure, if you live in DC. I see your link and raise you a link:

http://www.reedconstructiondata.com/...swick/moncton/

By my calcs, a 3,000 spot garage would cost between 25 and 38 million.

Edit: 3,500 spots: 30-45 million.

That, of course, ASSUMES that you'd need parking for 3,500 cars. With seating for 9,000, that might be a TAD large. Harbour Station has 500 spots, IIRC. We'd want more than that...

Last edited by Vorkuta; Apr 3, 2013 at 6:21 PM.
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  #114  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:09 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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Drill a small hole and exit your ping-pong ball conception of Moncton

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierremoncton View Post
I'm curious: are you saying that this sort of sprawl is inevitable because governments are cheap, incompetent and short-sighted (and you're therefore being pragmatic and/or opportunistic), or are you promoting it because you think it's actually a good idea for the community (not just your own pockets)?

Btw: I know that MonctonRad and NBNYer are suggesting that we ignore Unlearn, but I find this interesting. I think the proposal is nonsense but I wouldn't put it past certain leaders to accept it, just like they accepted Royal Oaks High and the new jail in the middle of nowhere.
Your mind is minimalistic, if it goes out further than three square miles, it's called sprawl???? Drill a little hole and push out of your teeny-weeny ping-pong ball conception of Moncton, and that the all important only exists because of downtown. Downtown Moncton is decaying and horrible, so people need to look outside Moncton to find land to build beauty and a spectacular Events Center. Everything must grow, look at cities like Toronto or Montreal, in 25 years the city limits, the outskirts all around have moved 60 miles further out. You've got to let go of downtown Main Street or people will be referring your behavior to a specialist.
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  #115  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:20 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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Your calculations are WRONG

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Originally Posted by Vorkuta View Post
Sure, if you live in DC. I see your link and raise you a link:

http://www.reedconstructiondata.com/...swick/moncton/

By my calcs, a 3,000 spot garage would cost between 25 and 38 million.
In your example it is clearly stated that in year 2008, five years ago, the cost per square foot was $43.00, An indoor parking space needs 100 square feet, 10 feet by ten feet, taking into account the cement posts and the alley ways. The cost of Reed is $43,000 per spot for indoor garage FIVE YEARS AGO.

3,500 spaces X $43,000 = $150,500,000 nice going!
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  #116  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:25 PM
pierremoncton pierremoncton is online now
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn View Post
Your mind is minimalistic, if it goes out further than three square miles, it's called sprawl???? Drill a little hole and push out of your teeny-weeny ping-pong ball conception of Moncton, and that the all important only exists because of downtown. Downtown Moncton is decaying and horrible, so people need to look outside Moncton to find land to build beauty and a spectacular Events Center. Everything must grow, look at cities like Toronto or Montreal, in 25 years the city limits, the outskirts all around have moved 60 miles further out. You've got to let go of downtown Main Street or people will be referring your behavior to a specialist.
Wow. Not sure what I said to earn that kind of disrespect from you. Other posters are insinuating that you're crazy and should be ignored while I asked you a genuine question.

I might have a "minimalistic mind" and I might "need a specialist", but you'll croak first.
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  #117  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:40 PM
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Might be time for the mods to step in.....

Care to make a formal complaint?
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  #118  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:42 PM
Unlearn Relearn Unlearn Relearn is offline
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Where is your sense of humor? Let me inject some joy in your life.
A Male Fairy Tale:
Once upon a time, a Prince asked a beautiful Princess, "Will you marry me?" The Princess said, "No!!" And the Prince lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and banged skinny long-legged big-titted broads and hunted and fished and raced cars and went to naked bars and dated women half his age and drank whiskey, beer, and Captain Morgan and never heard complaining and never paid child support or alimony and banged cheerleaders and kept his house and guns and ate burritos, pizza, potato chips, and beans and blew enormous farts, and never got cheated on while he was at work and all his friends and family thought he was frickin' cool as hell and he had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up.
The end
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  #119  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Unlearn Relearn View Post
In your example it is clearly stated that in year 2008, five years ago, the cost per square foot was $43.00, An indoor parking space needs 100 square feet, 10 feet by ten feet, taking into account the cement posts and the alley ways. The cost of Reed is $43,000 per spot for indoor garage FIVE YEARS AGO.
Hey, if you can build yours in Washington, DC, I can build mine in 2008.
Quote:
3,500 spaces X $43,000 = $150,500,000 nice going!
I'm not sure where you found those figures, but sign up for a trail account and do create a parking garage from their Moncton figures... a 1500-stall, 5-storey building is estimated at 27 million (2013 figures). So you could build two, getting you 3,000 cars for about 50... thought I can't imagine why we'd need that many.
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  #120  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2013, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


Might be time for the mods to step in.....

I totally agree with you MonctonRad. This is pure spamming and trolling. There's just no sense in all of that - so aggressive too.
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