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  #1221  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
I think what fascinates us most about Detroit is that it has a very life after humans vibe to it, and we're fascinated by death so we get drawn to this kind of thing.

Also the resolution of those Streetview images is amazing, they've come a long way.

OK Holy fuck, I went one block south and it's like a different city???? This is pretty amazing too. As a human, I love contrasts and juxtapositions.
The desolation doesn't end in the residential areas. I followed the road from that link a block or two and came to this business / industrial area:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42982...4!8i8192?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42839...4!8i8192?hl=en

Check out this bunker, I mean Church:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42559...4!8i8192?hl=en

There appear to be no open businesses anywhere. All are built like bunkers and boarded up.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42664...4!8i8192?hl=en
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  #1222  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
The desolation doesn't end in the residential areas. I followed the road from that link a block or two and came to this business / industrial area:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42982...4!8i8192?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42839...4!8i8192?hl=en

Check out this bunker, I mean Church:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42559...4!8i8192?hl=en

There appear to be no open businesses anywhere. All are built like bunkers and boarded up.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.42664...4!8i8192?hl=en
How about Gary Indiana? That place springs to mind when I think desolate towns.





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  #1223  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 5:38 PM
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Camdan New Jersey makes Detroit look like Chicago by comparison. It looks like it sprung out of the Walking Dead.




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  #1224  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:35 PM
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Some more Laval ugliness.

Well we're off to a lovely start aren't we?
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6071...7i16384!8i8192

Big Box Dreck.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6099...7i16384!8i8192

Ugly Apartments.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6022...7i16384!8i8192

Downtown Laval, a bustling architecturally amazing city.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5822...thumbfov%3D100

Seriously, isn't Laval amazing?
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5830...7i16384!8i8192

The king of em all.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5628...7i13312!8i6656

They Built some other fuglys around Clockzilla as well.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5609...7i16384!8i8192

The Horror!

Seriously, Clockzilla aside (who is peerless in evil) Laval's built form is virtually indistinguishable from the North Shore and South Shore of Montreal, Missingsausage and Milton, Pickering, Scarborough, Surrey,....

It is all big box barf, cookie-cutter PoMo awfulness, and 6-8 lane windswept boulevards. Add in the fact that 2/3s of the time, you have cobalt-grey skies, and you end up with forbidding, banal, fuglyscapes.

As horrible as these places are, they are two million steps above the wretchedness that is much of Detroit, Camden, Gary, St. Louis, (and what swathes of Harlem and the Bronx were in the 80s-90s). That doesn't mean we should be proud of the banality that comprises perhaps two-thirds of the urbanscape in Canadian cities.

check out my thread on urban planning disasters: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=219294
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  #1225  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stevanford1 View Post
Camdan New Jersey makes Detroit look like Chicago by comparison. It looks like it sprung out of the Walking Dead.


Gotta love the bags of garbage placed perfectly for collection.
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  #1226  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The Horror!

Seriously, Clockzilla aside (who is peerless in evil) Laval's built form is virtually indistinguishable from the North Shore and South Shore of Montreal, Missingsausage and Milton, Pickering, Scarborough, Surrey,....

It is all big box barf, cookie-cutter PoMo awfulness, and 6-8 lane windswept boulevards. Add in the fact that 2/3s of the time, you have cobalt-grey skies, and you end up with forbidding, banal, fuglyscapes.

As horrible as these places are, they are two million steps above the wretchedness that is much of Detroit, Camden, Gary, St. Louis, (and what swathes of Harlem and the Bronx were in the 80s-90s). That doesn't mean we should be proud of the banality that comprises perhaps two-thirds of the urbanscape in Canadian cities.

check out my thread on urban planning disasters: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=219294
Cool thread! I was actually going to post the Radio Canada Building, truly an awful failure. Empire State Plazas public space is a special kind of awful.
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  #1227  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The Horror!

Seriously, Clockzilla aside (who is peerless in evil) Laval's built form is virtually indistinguishable from the North Shore and South Shore of Montreal, Missingsausage and Milton, Pickering, Scarborough, Surrey,....

It is all big box barf, cookie-cutter PoMo awfulness, and 6-8 lane windswept boulevards. Add in the fact that 2/3s of the time, you have cobalt-grey skies, and you end up with forbidding, banal, fuglyscapes.

As horrible as these places are, they are two million steps above the wretchedness that is much of Detroit, Camden, Gary, St. Louis, (and what swathes of Harlem and the Bronx were in the 80s-90s). That doesn't mean we should be proud of the banality that comprises perhaps two-thirds of the urbanscape in Canadian cities.

check out my thread on urban planning disasters: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=219294
Wow that thread surpasses the Ugly Canada thread for me. I thought I had good intestinal fortitude from years of exposure to Clockzilla and the Venetian, but I could only handle one page of that other thread. It's like watching cities get raped. Horrible stuff.
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  #1228  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:55 PM
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The Maison Radio Canada Tower is pure awfulness. The fact that they raised an entire neighborhood to build this pos is the worst part imo (pic is from the thread Molson linked).
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  #1229  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stevanford1 View Post
The Maison Radio Canada Tower is pure awfulness. The fact that they raised an entire neighborhood to build this pos is the worst part imo (pic is from the thread Molson linked).
It's not the best building, though among francophones it does have a definite iconic status.

The worst part of it is the horrible intrusion of the entire complex on the urban fabric of that part of Montreal.

For those who don't know it is now the focus of a huge replacement project BTW.
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  #1230  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
Wow that thread surpasses the Ugly Canada thread for me. I thought I had good intestinal fortitude from years of exposure to Clockzilla and the Venetian, but I could only handle one page of that other thread. It's like watching cities get raped. Horrible stuff.
Yes it is. I actually went to Albany last year for a work trip. The public space of Empire State Plaza has zero seating and is murder in hot weather. I actually had the misfortune of going into one of those towers. It was very dark and depressing. It actually was added to the the Public Spaces Hall Of Shame in 2004 and hasn't changed a bit since. The buildings look like big fugly flash drives to me.
https://www.pps.org/places/empire-state-plaza

The worst part about it for me is that it sits across from the architecturally stunning State Capitol essentially tainting it with its ugliness.


Or maybe The Egg which looks more like a toilet bowl to me.


Although I must say the Corning Tower has great views and the New York State Museum was pretty cool (although the stairs could give Rocky a run for his money).



Last edited by stevanford1; Feb 11, 2019 at 7:20 PM.
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  #1231  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:27 PM
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Behold Waterloo. One of the only cities that can give Laval a run for its money.
I lived in this house in the late 80's as a student.

https://goo.gl/maps/18rN14d7yg82

My room was on the 2nd floor on the left. This is the 2009 imagery.

Now look at the latest imagery to see what this property and the one to the north and the one to the west has become.

The neighbourhood between U of W and WLU has changed a lot over the years.
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  #1232  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:29 PM
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Empire State Plaza is an architectural masterpiece. Its problem - as with so many others of that era - is its complete disregard, if not outright hostility towards its surrounding context.

It's great as a piece of sculpture, but a failure when it comes to city building. Especially when you consider the dozens of blocks of fine-grained urbanity that were swept away for it.
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  #1233  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stevanford1 View Post
The Maison Radio Canada Tower is pure awfulness. The fact that they raised an entire neighborhood to build this pos is the worst part imo (pic is from the thread Molson linked).
That pic is a great example of how a tall "tower in the park[ing lot]" can be a very very not dense built form, compared to a low-rise neighborhood.
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  #1234  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:35 PM
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Tell me about it. The Waterloo student housing zone is pure shit. Heres some more fuglys.

Im getting London student housing vibes
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4772...7i13312!8i6656

See, now this sort of small-scale low/mid-rise density is actually a perfect form of infill for an inner-suburban area like that, and something that I wish we'd see more of in other cities - but why's it gotta be so ugly??

All the new student housing development in Waterloo epitomizes everything I loathe about cheapo contemporary non-architecture.
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  #1235  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Empire State Plaza is an architectural masterpiece. Its problem - as with so many others of that area - is its complete disregard, if not outright hostility towards its surrounding context.

It's great as a piece of sculpture, but a failure when it comes to city building.
Even then, it's not that bad. The freeway and interchange is a worse offender, in terms of making it unappealing for people to walk from the Pastures / Mansion area to downtown. The fact that the extreme southeastern part of downtown is empty also worsens the problem (but that's fixable).

I love the architecture of ESP. I hate losing heritage buildings, but there's no argument that what it replaced is actually much more common, and less unique, and less architecturally precious (in the long term) than this expensive, high-quality Rockefeller era complex.
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  #1236  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:39 PM
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Even then, it's not that bad. The freeway and interchange is a worse offender, in terms of making it unappealing for people to walk from the Pastures / Mansion area to downtown. The fact that the extreme southeastern part of downtown is empty also worsens the problem (but that's fixable).

I love the architecture of ESP. I hate losing heritage buildings, but there's no argument that what it replaced is actually much more common, and less unique, and less architecturally precious (in the long term) than this expensive, high-quality Rockefeller era complex.
It's a good example of the "interesting" parts of U.S. cities I used to try and get my parents to detour into.
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  #1237  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:47 PM
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I’ve always bee surprised that Waterloo doesn’t get more “love” in this thread. It’s not in the local culture to do things “for nice” and, despite some award-winning exceptions, functionality rules. Kitchener has an old school, post-industrial ugliness to it that’s understandable, but Waterloo with its wealth and academic/high tech boom has little excuse. The new student housing zone is, imo, the ugliest neighbourhood in Canada, although the newer projects have shown iimprovement.
It's definitely an eyesore, not least because of the visual clash between the modest 1950s bungalows dominating the neighbourhood and the midrise apartment blocks replacing them.

I will say, though, that the influx of Chinese exchange students, restaurants and businesses has resulted in an energy and vibe that helps a bit. There are now nooks and crannies hidden away from the main streets in the form of first-floor retail in residential buildings that you would never know about unless you purposely sought them out or stumbled upon them accidentally. That to me has always been one of the hallmarks of great cities. In Canada it's something you only really find in Montreal and Toronto.

Okay, taking a deep breath and stepping back from that last statement: Waterloo is not Montreal or Toronto. Right now it's a bleak hodgepodge, and the pedestrian energy around the university is throttled by the busy suburban streets and thoroughfares. It looks awful, but something is kinda going on...
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  #1238  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:58 PM
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Even then, it's not that bad. The freeway and interchange is a worse offender, in terms of making it unappealing for people to walk from the Pastures / Mansion area to downtown. The fact that the extreme southeastern part of downtown is empty also worsens the problem (but that's fixable).

I love the architecture of ESP. I hate losing heritage buildings, but there's no argument that what it replaced is actually much more common, and less unique, and less architecturally precious (in the long term) than this expensive, high-quality Rockefeller era complex.
I agree the Freeway is horrible but just look at this.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/althouse/4140089546/

It’s also completely displaced from the neighbourhood of 18th century townhomes it resides in. They also demolished over 9000 heritage building and to build that concrete bunker. But I see your point.
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  #1239  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 9:08 PM
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There is something sort of cool and futuristic about ESP in Albany, but then you realize that while Vulcans or Romulans may love hanging out in that sort of environment, it is piss poor for urban vitality.

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  #1240  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by stevanford1 View Post
I agree the Freeway is horrible but just look at this.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/althouse/4140089546/

It’s also completely displaced from the neighbourhood of 18th century townhomes it resides in. They also demolished over 9000 heritage building and to build that concrete bunker. But I see your point.
Yeah, I look at this and I see a high-quality building, architecturally interesting and period-typical, clad in very expensive marble. We shouldn't be lumping it in the same general category as cheap-ass generic condo towers made on a budget with only one thing in mind, trying to maximize returns for the developer.

A little anecdote, a few years ago I almost bought the two buildings to the left of this view, below (the green one and the yellow one, which are merged as one and function as office space with a great cap rate), so, I could have had my own office with a view of "this"!

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.65105...7i13312!8i6656


Oh and BTW you mean 19th century, not 18th century. I agree with you that wiping out an intact 18th century neighborhood on this continent nowadays would be criminal, regardless of what you're going to replace it with. A 19th century one, not so much.
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