Should southern ontario be regarded as Canada's south?

[Stryker]

I guess the topic speaks for itself.


I've been rather obsessed with the prospects of moving to london and the one thing that astounds me is that there are so many corn fields in Southern ontario.

I know Southern Ontario is the default name for this region but it feels like the name sticks. If you look at a globe the region is clearly to the south of much of canada, and it's hard to deny that the region has strong and direct links to the american midwest.

In contrast Alberta for example is actually detached from american population centers despite being compared to regions just across the border.

EDIT: I should mention that I am specifically refering to areas south of Toronto. As for better or worst the GTA is our cultural, economic, and population center.

[lio45]

Most provinces have a "south" (where people live) and a "north" (raw resources and aboriginals).

Canada in general can be said to have a "south" which is the east-west strip hugging the US border where some 90% of the population lives. Otherwise, I think it makes more sense to look at it from an individual provincial point of view.

Also, Alberta is much closer to being the exception than the rule.

[SignalHillHiker]

North and south are relatively clearly defined in, as far as I'm aware, every region of Canada already. Where the border might be seems to be up for debate, but whether it's above the tree line, muskeg, aboriginal areas, the Great Northern Peninsula and Labrador, or francophone New Brunswick, everywhere already has some area understood to be "the North".

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by lio45

Most provinces have a "south" (where people live) and a "north" (raw resources and aboriginals).

Canada in general can be said to have a "south" which is the east-west strip hugging the US border where some 90% of the population lives. Otherwise, I think it makes more sense to look at it from an individual provincial point of view.

Also, Alberta is much closer to being the exception than the rule.

Obviously "the north" is well established in Canada. However I'd counter the question is does canada have a middle. I.e. the population center of canada is just north of toronto.

Southwestern ontario is very clearly south of this and as can be expect the region differs from the rest of canada.

[MonctonRad]

You could look at it this way:

The population distribution of Canada is roughly this:
1/3rd of Canadians live south of the 45th parallel.
1/3rd of Canadians live between the 45th & 49th parallels
1/3rd of Canadians live north of the 49th parallel.

Thus Canada sort of has a south, a middle and a north in terms of population distribution.

The Canadian provinces with a presence below the 45th parallel include Ontario, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (just barely - only the Fundy isles qualify).

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You could look at it this way:

The population distribution of Canada is roughly this:
1/3rd of Canadians live south of the 45th parallel.
1/3rd of Canadians live between the 45th & 49th parallels
1/3rd of Canadians live north of the 49th parallel.

Thus Canada sort of has a south, a middle and a north in terms of population distribution.

The Canadian provinces with a presence below the 45th parallel include Ontario, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (just barely - only the Fundy isles qualify).

Yeah well if the population center of canada is slightly North of Toronto it make sense to use the term.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Stryker

I guess the topic speaks for itself.


I've been rather obsessed with the prospects of moving to london and the one thing that astounds me is that there are so many corn fields in Southern ontario.

I know Southern Ontario is the default name for this region but it feels like the name sticks. If you look at a globe the region is clearly to the south of much of canada, and it's hard to deny that the region has strong and direct links to the american midwest.

In contrast Alberta for example is actually detached from american population centers despite being compared to regions just across the border.

London is considered to be in "Southwestern Ontario" - Southern Ontario is a very big place.

In terms of linkages/commonalities, Southern Ontario fits most comfortably with the Grand Lakes States. Slightly less so, imho, with the U.S. Midwest, although it's not a huge gap.

[kwoldtimer]

When I think about it, I suspect most Southern Ontarians would consider their part of the country to be Canada's south, since everything else is to the north. They's also tend to think of it as Canada's centre, but that's a different story.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Canadian provinces with a presence below the 45th parallel include Ontario, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (just barely - only the Fundy isles qualify).

If you say "barely" does qualify, then you can add Quebec, due to the fact the border was traced by drunks. (Corollary = Vermont has a presence above the 45th parallel.)

For example, the coordinates 44°59'31.0"N, 74°19'36.7"W give you a point that is in Quebec.

(44.991942, -74.326865 for Google Maps)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When I think about it, I suspect most Southern Ontarians would consider their part of the country to be Canada's south, since everything else is to the north. They's also tend to think of it as Canada's centre, but that's a different story.

London - the heart of central southwestern Ontario (and by extension the entire Dominion).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

If you say "barely" does qualify, then you can add Quebec, due to the fact the border was traced by drunks. (Corollary = Vermont has a presence above the 45th parallel.)

For example, the coordinates 44°59'31.0"N, 74°19'36.7"W give you a point that is in Quebec.

(44.991942, -74.326865 for Google Maps)

Yes, I was aware of the rather poor geometrics used by the original surveyors of the Canada/US boundary along the 45th parallel, so you are indeed technically correct. The intent however was to make the 45th parallel the boundary.......

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When I think about it, I suspect most Southern Ontarians would consider their part of the country to be Canada's south, since everything else is to the north. They's also tend to think of it as Canada's centre, but that's a different story.

Ayreonaut used to get so annoyed with people here saying they were going "up to Canada/Toronto/Calgary/Whereever". One of those is technically up but he thinks we should just say "over to".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

London - the heart of central southwestern Ontario (and by extension the entire Dominion).

Actually, that's K-w because London is too far west to justify that title. For year's the Kitchener CTV outlet advertised that it was broadcasting from "the heart of Central Southwestern Ontario". It always made me laugh because it was so very specific.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Ayreonaut used to get so annoyed with people here saying they were going "up to Canada/Toronto/Calgary/Whereever". One of those is technically up but he thinks we should just say "over to".

Understandable, but the phase "up to Ontario" in the Maritimes generally means "going up river"; i.e. - going up the St. Lawrence.......

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You could look at it this way:

The population distribution of Canada is roughly this:
1/3rd of Canadians live south of the 45th parallel.
1/3rd of Canadians live between the 45th & 49th parallels
1/3rd of Canadians live north of the 49th parallel.

Thus Canada sort of has a south, a middle and a north in terms of population distribution.

I think that view is very flawed. You have "northern" places like Saguenay, Thunder Bay, Timmins, etc. joining places like Montreal in the "middle" category, and then you have "southern" places like Vancouver and Lethbridge and Regina and Winnipeg in the "north" category.

It's literally correct, but functionally, saying that Toronto is "south", Timmins is "middle" and Vancouver is "north" makes no sense.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When I think about it, I suspect most Southern Ontarians would consider their part of the country to be Canada's south, since everything else is to the north. They's also tend to think of it as Canada's centre, but that's a different story.

I find it odd that there is even debate of whether or not ontario is canada's center. As a easterner it drives me out of my mind when people refer to ontario as the east.

Quebec gets the idea of being the east as there is a much stronger reference to the past.

Northern Ontario to me seems to qualify as very clearly being northern/central.

Toronto is very clearly a central place free or void of any regional flavor.

South of Toronto I get the feeling like I've jumped into a John Melloncamp video.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by lio45

I think that view is very flawed. You have "northern" places like Saguenay, Thunder Bay, Timmins, etc. joining places like Montreal in the "middle" category, and then you have "southern" places like Vancouver and Lethbridge and Regina and Winnipeg in the "north" category.

It's literally correct, but functionally, saying that Toronto is "south", Timmins is "middle" and Vancouver is "north" makes no sense.

But Vancover is very clearly in western Canada, it's ties to the railroad/logging/gold rushes etc make it very clearly this.

[Stryker]

The South west is still the west.
Soth East of Ottawa is still the east.
Purple/blue/greenishblue The north
Green/Yellow with green the middle
Yellow with orange the south

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Understandable, but the phase "up to Ontario" in the Maritimes generally means "going up river"; i.e. - going up the St. Lawrence.......

Same here, in Quebec "up" and "down" are always meaning literally up and down (in altitude) alongside the River.

You go from the Gaspé "up" to Quebec City then from there "up" to Trois-Rivières then from there "up" to Montreal then you can go "up" all the way to Minnesota if you want passing in front of Kingston, Toronto, Detroit, Sault Ste-Marie, etc.

Going the opposite way, you're going "down". (The passage at Niagara Falls though, I would recommend not doing that in a barrel. You'll likely be going down faster than you'd like.)

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Toronto is very clearly a central place free or void of any regional flavor.

South of Toronto I get the feeling like I've jumped into a John Melloncamp video.

Toronto is so devoid of flavour that you spelt it the US way

I had a university roommate who said (from Barrie) that once you went from Toronto to Hamilton and you were past Hamilton you may as well be in the USA the landscape and the lifestyle reminded him of the adjacent USA so much.

I know this will cause lots of back and forth arguments over minutae but if Ontario south of the French River were divided up it would be in my mind:

west and south of a line from about Goderich/KW/Brantford/Lake Erie is SW Ontario.

The Golden Horseshoe would be Niagara/Hamilton/Halton/Peel/Toronto/York/Durham

Mid western Ontario: North of SW Ontario and up to about Collingwood, including Shelbourne, Owen Sound

Central Ontario. Barrie/Orillia/Peterborough

Eastern Ontario. From about Belleville to Bon Echo to Pembroke and all parts in Ontario east.

North of the central Ontario line (Bancroft/Haliburton/Muskoka/Algonquin and to the French River would be 'cottage country'