The Great Canadian Off Topic Thread

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Not sure how that's relevant. You don't have to work for a large national employer to have a job, and even if you do you don't need to know French. e.g. my brother is a Vancouver CBSA officer - i.e. federal government job - and his French is not passable. They don't require it because there aren't enough qualified French speakers and no one on the west coast needs a French speaking CBSA officer.

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I never said it was essential, I said it might be useful. More useful than Spanish or German, for example. This is a rebuttal to the "French is totally useless here" arguments.

Obviously most jobs in Greater Vancouver require no other language than English.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Point 1: Being forced to learn a language just makes it feel like work. Seriously I'd like to learn french, however as an adult I was never able to get past I feel like I'm back in schoo, while doing something that is a hobby. This sentiment is common among people forced to learn russian as well back in the eastern block.

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Wow. And *we* (sic) succeeded in doing that to *you* (sic) without military and political repression!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Point 1: Being forced to learn a language just makes it feel like work. Seriously I'd like to learn french, however as an adult I was never able to get past I feel like I'm back in schoo, while doing something that is a hobby. This sentiment is common among people forced to learn russian as well back in the eastern block.

Point 2: French is the opposite of german. German at first glance looks ultra strange in the way it is written, however once you start understanding how a few vowel shifts, and a over abundance of prefixes can alter a language it becomes straight forward.Yet wonderously novel.

French on the other hand looks like english, yet instantly sounds oddly unpronouncable once you try to speak it. Odds phonetics, and a bunch of strange nasal sounds, not to mention a overly repetive use of very simplistic vowels relative to english or german. (seriously even among romance languages french has very very odd sounds)

Point 3: Your ability to speak the language is quite limited unless you move to quebec, for all intents and purposes isn't much more appealing than manitoba(not that its bad) as a place to live but it's only 1/10th of the country. The reality is its hard to move there without already knowing the language, and once you get there its hard to find people that are supportive of your choice. (Add in the France-Quebec french splits and your choices continue to be frustrating.


Honestly I'd love to learn the language however self study is much harder than it should largerly due to issues of how its spelt, pronounced, and the fact that first exposure is through hack french teachers.

None of this changes the fact that every country in the world has a second language it teaches in its school system, and that French in this respect is easily the lowest hanging fruit there is for English-speaking Canadians who don't have a foreign language that's very present in their family environment.

One can't honestly argue that prevailing attitudes don't play a major role in some circles on the levels of proficiency that are achieved.

Like any other people, Canadians aren't always well-intentioned, open-minded and sincere even.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Point 3: Your ability to speak the language is quite limited unless you move to quebec, for all intents and purposes isn't much more appealing than manitoba(not that its bad) as a place to live but it's only 1/10th of the country. The reality is its hard to move there without already knowing the language, and once you get there its hard to find people that are supportive of your choice. .

Hmm. I can understand that a move to Quebec is not appealling for a Newfoundlander or most Anglo-Canadians, but it's more like a quarter of the country (close anyway). It's the second biggest province in population and has the second-biggest city.

Not sure why I have to point this out on an urban discussion forum where we talk stats all the time...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

. (Add in the France-Quebec french splits and your choices continue to be frustrating.

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You have to make a decent amount of progress on your French before this will even start to become an issue.

[1overcosc]

I generally make an effort to speak French whenever I go to Quebec, and what happens to me all the time is somewhat embarrassing. Because my accent & pronounciation is very good, people seem to think I'm a francophone and then go whole hog with small talk in French and I quickly get lost and have to admit that I don't actually speak French. Always awkward.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I generally make an effort to speak French whenever I go to Quebec, and what happens to me all the time is somewhat embarrassing. Because my accent & pronounciation is very good, people seem to think I'm a francophone and then go whole hog with small talk in French and I quickly get lost and have to admit that I don't actually speak French. Always awkward.

I get that in Spanish. I've often been told I have one of the best accents in Spanish people have ever heard on a non-native speaker.

It often tricks people and leads to funny situations...

[MexiQuebecois]

Originally Posted by lio45

If they have your talent for languages (based on exchanging a few sentences with you in French on this forum a long time ago) they'll absorb both English and French super easily... no need to even care, they will. Since I suppose your wife doesn't speak Spanish, it's the only one that won't be basically automatic. Do you have Spanish-speaking family members here? Will you be visiting your relatives in Mexico often? Just speaking to them yourself will probably do it... they'll use French at school, and English with your wife.

Thanks for the compliment. After a few years my French is now 100% fluent. I use it everyday at work so that's no longer a concern. I guess I just want my future children to be trilingual at an early stage of their lives, though I wonder how all this is going to work out.

Option A: I speak to them in French/English and they become completely bilingual early on. Then I can focus on Spanish once they go to school/daycare.

Option B: I speak to them in Spanish, the wife in English, and they eventually learn French at school/daycare. I'm worried that they might start at a disadvantage at school, though.

Anyhow, I might just need to start travelling to Mexico more often. I'm sure the grandparents would jump with joy if I bring them trilingual grandchildren. This is still a few years down the road. The past few years have been about adjusting.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by harls

Please impregnate your wife and create cool Quebecers, and put them into the school system.

(this from some guy who has lived in Quebec since 2001)

..and make the effort to speak French, that is all they want. Mangle it as you want. Just fucking try.

The only answer you need.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

Option A: I speak to them in French/English and they become completely bilingual early on. Then I can focus on Spanish once they go to school/daycare.

Option B: I speak to them in Spanish, the wife in English, and they eventually learn French at school/daycare. I'm worried that they might start at a disadvantage at school, though.

.

I would speak to them in Spanish right off the bat, and this is even truer if they go to daycare for a number of years before starting elementary school (maternelle). The daycare if they go there a few years will teach them enough French to ready them for school.

Spanish is the weakest of the three languages you speak in the context you are living in. You need to beef it up as much as you can.

French and English will take care of themselves. Trust me.

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

Thanks for the compliment. After a few years my French is now 100% fluent. I use it everyday at work so that's no longer a concern. I guess I just want my future children to be trilingual at an early stage of their lives, though I wonder how all this is going to work out.

Option A: I speak to them in French/English and they become completely bilingual early on. Then I can focus on Spanish once they go to school/daycare.

Option B: I speak to them in Spanish, the wife in English, and they eventually learn French at school/daycare. I'm worried that they might start at a disadvantage at school, though.

Anyhow, I might just need to start travelling to Mexico more often. I'm sure the grandparents would jump with joy if I bring them trilingual grandchildren. This is still a few years down the road. The past few years have been about adjusting.

My wife and I are wondering the same thing. I figure we'll speak English and Arabic at home (though we're just learning Arabic ourselves), then let them learn French at school.

[lio45]

Before we have to ask a mod to rename this "The Great Language Discussion Thread", let me ask, would you prefer to do a burnout (a.k.a. un show de boucane ) in a Charger Hellcat or in a Tesla Model S 85?

[le calmar]

I would go with the Charger without a doubt. Why are you asking, did you have the opportunity to do a "show the boucane" with either car? Maybe even both?

[DrNest]

Of the two listed, I would go for the Charger, but given an open ended choice of cars, it would be the Aston Martin DB9.

[GreaterMontréal]

Tesla Model 3 performance package maybe $45k (-$8k), . 0-100 in less than 5sec

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I would go with the Charger without a doubt. Why are you asking, did you have the opportunity to do a "show the boucane" with either car? Maybe even both?

I wish

I was merely going with the last discussion topic from the Provincial Economies thread, importing it here in what I have understood to be the strictest spirit of this thread.

FWIW, my ex's mom had a brand new 6.2 Camaro SS with the stick shift... it had been a while since I last drove a performance car, they have become really something over the years! I got to try it and of course was given the green light to "really" try it; I remember flooring it while climbing the Portland blvd hill going east (at Wilson) and it swallowed the (quite steep, as you well know) hill in a flash while the acceleration was mercilessly pressuring me into my seat. I am pretty sure the car could've jumped if I hadn't let go of the gas pedal right before the top.

It's hard to imagine that a Hellcat would easily show this 5th gen Camaro its taillights... the Camaro already felt like a totally unreasonable vehicle to drive on the streets, and somewhat frightening actually... I mean, you have all that power at your beck and call, you can't escape wanting to use it once in a while.

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

Thanks for the compliment. After a few years my French is now 100% fluent. I use it everyday at work so that's no longer a concern. I guess I just want my future children to be trilingual at an early stage of their lives, though I wonder how all this is going to work out.

Option A: I speak to them in French/English and they become completely bilingual early on. Then I can focus on Spanish once they go to school/daycare.

Option B: I speak to them in Spanish, the wife in English, and they eventually learn French at school/daycare. I'm worried that they might start at a disadvantage at school, though.

Anyhow, I might just need to start travelling to Mexico more often. I'm sure the grandparents would jump with joy if I bring them trilingual grandchildren. This is still a few years down the road. The past few years have been about adjusting.

Option B.
Immigrant parents don't need to speak the dominant language of the city in which they live to their children because their child will simply and easily pick it up as they grow up. In your case, their environment outside the home won't be Spanish, it will be French (and perhaps English?). French will be practically impossible to escape, so there is no need to worry about your children being left behind in school (especially in a multicultural city like Montreal where your situation is far from abnormal). If you don't speak your native tongue to your kids until they are older, you may run the risk of having children who cannot speak your language fluently (especially if your wife doesn't speak it).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

Option B.
Immigrant parents don't need to speak the dominant language of the city in which they live to their children because their child will simply and easily pick it up as they grow up. In your case, their environment outside the home won't be Spanish, it will be French (and perhaps English?). French will be practically impossible to escape, so there is no need to worry about your children being left behind in school (especially in a multicultural city like Montreal where your situation is far from abnormal). If you don't speak your native tongue to your kids until they are older, you may run the risk of having children who cannot speak your language fluently (especially if your wife doesn't speak it).

Very true. To add to what you said and what I said above, one should not underestimate the power of societal peer pressure. I know lots of people who have taught their kids their native languages (with varying degrees of determination) and the kids still refuse to speak it and want no part of it. This does not always happen but the odds are 50-50 that it will happen. Many kids for whatever reason see their parents' language as passé or "loser" if it's not the main language of the area where they live. You generally have to be a parent or have friends who are parents to see this.

Mexi is lucky in that Spanish is seen as cool in Montreal/Quebec and so there will be a greater impetus for the kids to want to speak it, but even so it's always an uphill battle.

I speak from experience as I witnessed first-hand my parents' attempts to try and instill French in my family while living in predominantly anglophone parts of Canada. They were only partly successful - at best. And this was an official Canadian language.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wow. And *we* (sic) succeeded in doing that to *you* (sic) without military and political repression!

Well, to play devil's advocate, I sort of commiserate with the whole "forced to learn French" thing. I like the French language but whatever French I know I learned largely as an adult when I sought exposure to French culture.

Growing up, I could not have been less interested in the way French was taught in Ontario schools. Opening up a cahier with clowns on the front cover, and being drilled in conjugation exercises while watching videos geared for pre-schoolers and singing corny songs about Guy LaFleur is not going to captivate your average 13 year old boy.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Well, to play devil's advocate, I sort of commiserate with the whole "forced to learn French" thing. I like the French language but whatever French I know I learned largely as an adult when I sought exposure to French culture.

Growing up, I could not have been less interested in the way French was taught in Ontario schools. Opening up a cahier with clowns on the front cover, and being drilled in conjugation exercises while watching videos geared for pre-schoolers and singing corny songs about Guy LaFleur is not going to captivate your average 13 year old boy.

Sure. But that sounds more like bad pedagogy than some type of evil plan.