Ontario electricity

[bornagainbiking]

From hamilton Spec 21 March 2011
Editorial
An electricity nightmare

Paid your electricity bill lately? Then you’ve already done a good bit of teeth grinding. Before you read on, you might want to get your hands on one of those overnight teeth protection devices the dentists prescribe for overnight grinders. You’re going to need it.

In its latest report, the Ontario electricity watchdog panel delivers some startling – some would say maddening – revelations. Such as: Since the province’s energy market was opened to competition in 2002, some electricity generators have been paid millions – not for producing power, but for not producing power. At least one other has figured out how to make millions in extra revenue by repeatedly switching its system off and on. And traders, who make their money by importing and exporting electricity, have been paid millions of dollars for not importing power.

Got that mouth guard handy? The watchdog says some generators, especially in the northwestern part of the province, are working by the system by offering to sell power at an appealing price, but during times when they know transmission lines are going to be operating at capacity, meaning they can’t move the power. They don’t sell the power, but do make money from what’s called a “constrained off” payment, just for making the original bid to sell.

Then there’s that generator (at least one) that has figured out it can make extra money by shutting down and starting up again, for no other reason than profit. Fossil fuel generators qualify for guaranteed payments that recognize costs are incurred when a shut-down unit is started up again. The panel says that by staying online for a two-hour period the generator can earn $10,000. But if it shuts down and starts up again, it can actually earn $50,000, so of course, in the name of optimal profitability, it does so. How about power importers who improve profits by as much as three times because they anticipate times when transmission will be congested, and are paid a premium because they cannot import power they have ordered during those times?

Entrepreneurial behaviour is laudable in the right setting. But in this case, the people who are getting rich are being paid by Ontario electricity consumers, already feeling the pinch and watching their utility bills skyrocket. The natural tendency here is to blame the current government for this. And indeed, the McGuinty government has many sins on the electricity front. Although it has some worthy objectives — notably modernization and development of less environmentally damaging methods of power generation — the execution of those aspirations has been poor.

Add the introduction of HST to the mess, and it spells bad news for the Liberals in the upcoming election. No problem. We’ll just elect a Conservative government to fix the problem, right? But the Conservatives under Mike Harris, with Tim Hudak at his elbow, created this mess by mishandling deregulation and failing to ensure adequate safeguards and regulations were in place to prevent abuse – just the sort of abuse the watchdog describes in its report.

There is lots of blame to go around here. The only question is who pays — aside from Ontario consumers, that is.

Howard Elliott

My comment:
Didn't California have a similar scam with mass brown outs during peaks useage times.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Deregulation and opening up the market to private companies was a HUGE mistake of the Harris era. It seemed to make sense at the time since Ontario Hydro was hemorrhaging money with no end in sight. Thankfully the full privatization of all Ontario Hydro's assets was stopped and Ontario still controls a majority of the power generating facilities. Enron had helped craft the privitization scheme but was luckily stopped by court order!

A public system would work but its major drawback is that its always susceptible to political influences. Ontario Hydro's original mandate was to provide power at cost of production, but with cost overruns at Darlington Nuclear and the public at large wanting cheap hydro bills, it led to sales of hydro below production cost and huge losses that it accumulated in the 1980s & 1990s. Even still hydro is sold below market costs, I remember in 2002-2003 people shitting bricks when they realized the true costs of hydro, and bills going thru the roof and not wanting to change their hydro use habits!

The HST is bullshit, McGunity needs another source of revenue for his tax and spend ways. However, regardless of political stripe, OLP, PCs, NDP they all need to raise the price of hydro to production costs, plain and simple. They can either be honest to people and raise the rates so that people know the real cost and start conserving more energy. Or the politically easy thing, allow the government to subsidize hydro costs, so people can continue their wasteful hydro use habits and continue to add it to the provincial debt!

[vid]

Northern Ontario's hydro costs are below what they are right now. If they go up anymore we will lose all of our industry and become even more dependent on handouts from the south than we are already. We already have many industrial companies saying they want to locate here but can't afford the energy costs, we have with one operation alone almost 1,000 jobs up in the air waiting for lower energy costs.

We need regional pricing and we need it based on the cost of productions. In Alberta they change the rate every hour, not just in blocks. I think we could use something like that, but instead of province wide, divide the province into zones (perhaps based on its StatsCan Economic Zones) and have each zone's price based on the cost of generating energy in that zone.

And we need to fold all those companies back into one. There is no reason for five people to be earning multi-million dollar salaries when a single person could do the same thing like before.

As for sales taxes, it shouldn't apply to any essentials, and energy is an essential.

[eternallyme]

1) Get rid of the HST on energy.

2) Phase out expensive and dangerous nuclear energy and do not build any new plants.

3) Let the market build new renewable energy facilities. Give incentives for companies to build solar panels and mini-windmills by making them tax-free.

4) Scrap the Clean Energy Act and ensure local municipalities and community groups have full consultation.

5) Rip up the Samsung sole-source sweetheart deal.

6) Do not eliminate coal energy, instead clean it up.

7) Follow Manitoba and Quebec and make a major investment in hydro-electricity.

[vid]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

6) Do not eliminate coal energy, instead clean it up.

How? Do you know of some method by which we can extract the uranium and thorium from it? Clean coal is just purer coal, it has less debris. That doesn't really mean it is any more environmentally friendly. Toxic emissions from coal are only down because the coal plants aren't being used much anymore.

And what about the hundreds of jobs that will result from converting the coal plants in Northwestern Ontario to wood pellets, peat and biomass? Do we just say "oh well, someone from somewhere else knows better"? As if that has worked in the past.

[tjernobyl]

Originally Posted by vid

We need regional pricing and we need it based on the cost of productions. In Alberta they change the rate every hour, not just in blocks. I think we could use something like that, but instead of province wide, divide the province into zones (perhaps based on its StatsCan Economic Zones) and have each zone's price based on the cost of generating energy in that zone.

Ontario's grid is divided by the IESO into 10 zones:
http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/WebData/Tr...fn_10zones.pdf

The following 2006 report suggests that splitting costs North/South would result in about a 2.5% savings in the North:
http://www.mei.gov.on.ca/en/pdf/elec...cing_Study.pdf

[vid]

We'll take it.

[eternallyme]

About the coal and northern Ontario, you do have a good point there, just need to find out how much that it would cost. But such is not an option in southern Ontario.

[vid]

They have a lot of other support though. We've been in an economic recession since George Bush was president. In 1992.

It seems like no matter what we do, we're fucked.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

1) Get rid of the HST on energy.

You have my support on that one. It hurts.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

2) Phase out expensive and dangerous nuclear energy and do not build any new plants.

And replace it with what? Thousands of hamsters running on little wheels? If Ontario didn't have the baseline nuclear capacity, this place would have constant rolling blackouts since there would be no way to meet demand. Not unlike Burma, another poorly managed socialist entity.

I also take offence at your suggestion that CANDU heavy water reactors are dangerous. Any nuclear operation deals with an element of risk, but ours is many orders of magnitude lower than the risk faced by the light-water reactors at Fukushima Daiichi.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

3) Let the market build new renewable energy facilities. Give incentives for companies to build solar panels and mini-windmills by making them tax-free.

Incentives? You mean add more on top of the $0.80 per kilowatt hour that we give them now?

Originally Posted by eternallyme

7) Follow Manitoba and Quebec and make a major investment in hydro-electricity.

Ontario is a bit too flat for large-scale hydroelectricity projects. And if people hate nuclear, they'll also hate flooding hundreds of thousands of acres to create hydro resevoirs.

[vid]

Small scale run-of-the-river hydro works in some places, but that is about as effective as wind turbines and solar panels. It is mostly used by mills in remote areas. Kakabeka Falls GS uses a similar set-up to Niagara's hydro dams with the aquaducts and the station built into a cliff but that also depends on a hilly terrain. The far north is a swamp, you can't really dam a swamp.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Incentives? You mean add more on top of the $0.80 per kilowatt hour that we give them now?

That's actually been lowered to 64 cents for ground mounted solar. Roof mounted still has the higher price. Solar is by far the most expensive, all the other kinds get 11-16 cents.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

4) Scrap the Clean Energy Act and ensure local municipalities and community groups have full consultation.

Municipalities and community groups do get full consultation for FIT projects, it's just that the province is the approval authority. Only microFIT projects, which are less than 10 kW, skip consultation.

[DizzyEdge]

I'd like some opinions on Smart meters in Ontario where you pay a premium during peak hours (or you get a discount during off peak.. depends how you look at it). The question I have is: if you use most of your power during off-peak, is your power bill cheaper than before the meters were put into place? Ie is off-peak cheaper than before time-of-use billing, or did they just tack on extra cost for on-peak.

[vid]

It's not cheaper, but it is lower than it would be. Mine went from $75 to $82. This might be because we plugged all the incandescent light bulbs back in for the winter, though.

[miketoronto]

Adam Beck must be turning in his grave. Everyone said privatization would be a disaster, and one only need to look at the USA to see that.

I think this thread should be thought about in the VIA thread about privatization.

[Nick.]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

2) Phase out expensive and dangerous nuclear energy and do not build any new plants.

hahahahaha

[bornagainbiking]

Seems that the government green energy plan is faltering.
Wind farms, solar farms may not be the total answer.
What about getting individuals involved?
Cut the cost of new infrastructure!
Offer the solar panels for a discounted or subsidized price and set up an installation discount or tax break to any home owner or apartment building, office and industrial sites, farms, barns, warehouses, rec centre, gyms to install solar panels that would power them independently especially during peak times summer and the A/C draw during heat waves.
I know my roof has plenty of proper square footage for enough panels to power my home and a couple neighbors.
Just imagine hydro power infrastructure possibly reduced and work/maintenance could be done in the summer as that would be the lower draw period long days and plenty of sunlight.
Cost of power reduced to assist plants to produce.
Poof sorry, another dream. Even though I am starting to see more roof mounted panels. Home depot is selling solar and wind generators that would work in a remote cottage. Comes in a instant all included box that fits into the back of your half ton.
They even have 12 volt composting toilets so you can set up off the grid. No septic, no hydro hook up $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
This stuff is becoming available just can't see Hydro one cutting it's own throat.

[vid]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

Offer the solar panels for a discounted or subsidized price and set up an installation discount or tax break to any home owner or apartment building, office and industrial sites, farms, barns, warehouses, rec centre, gyms to install solar panels that would power them independently especially during peak times summer and the A/C draw during heat waves.

We have that. It is called "MicroFIT and the Green Energy Plan". Five or six small businesses in Thunder Bay have started up solely because of this policy, and solar panels are now pretty common here, compared to just 3 years ago.

But you've basically come up with my approach to energy for the past 5 years: Have anyone who is capable of doing so generate as much of their own energy as possible using solar, wind, geothermal and other methods to reduce the need of state-generated electricity, reducing our need for coal, gas and nuclear fuel and reducing energy costs overall. Thunder Bay's AbitibiBoWater/Resolute Forest Products paper mill is building a co-generation plant as an alternate to using public energy.

[haljackey]

Its official, I now live by the largest nuke plant in the world.

I swear this is the only place in the world that makes nuke plants these days (for better or worse)

Bruce Power finished refurbishing reactor A-2, and all 8 units are now humming along: http://www.brucepower.com/6926/news/...e-in-17-years/

Nuclear power may be clean, but it ain't green.


Nuke graph... #2 is the one that got started today: http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelect...ectricity.html


List showing the largest nuke plants in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...power_stations

The Kashiwazaki-Kariwa station is larger but is only operating at 48% due to earthquake damage and decommissioning.

[vid]

It's greener than fossil fuels. Unless you meant financially, in which case it is quite red indeed.