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  #1121  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 7:50 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Originally Posted by intrepidDesign View Post
Why is it the developers responsibility to consider the views of their neighbors? How many times must we have this insane conversation? It's so old at this point. They didn't tell anyone to "F off" they built on land they owned as they saw fit. Cities are living, breathing, ever-changing things, anyone living in Chicago who expects their view of whatever to remain exactly as it is, is delusional.

Disagree! Ask the designers of Trump Tower how they conceived their design. In relation and respect to its surrounding buildings and views. I could go on and on.

Last edited by bhawk66; Mar 19, 2019 at 9:48 PM. Reason: snark dele
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  #1122  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 7:59 PM
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Trump was designed around the shape and size of the plot of land. The setbacks are a crafty homage to historic Chicago landmarks. You're talking apples and oranges here to the original debate, bhawk.
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  #1123  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 8:11 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Originally Posted by PittsburghPA View Post
Trump was designed around the shape and size of the plot of land. The setbacks are a crafty homage to historic Chicago landmarks. You're talking apples and oranges here to the original debate, bhawk.
The debate was that designers never take their surroundings into consideration I thought. Which is completely inane, to use a fellow colleagues term. You said it yourself, the designers considered their surroundings in the Trump building design. Okay, you said "crafty homage" like it was an afterthought, I said considered. East Wacker Drive/East River canyon has become historic in it's essence and aura. It in itself is a Chicago landmark, imo. The riverboat business has grown exponentially. It is a huge tourist draw. Huge. Isn't it a reasonable suggestion to consider that dynamic? Ever notice nothing gets built around the Eifel Tower? (I know that's a wild comparison, but it holds that decisions were made to prevent poor views) NY could give a rats ass, but have you ever noticed nothing large gets built around the Empire State building? By chance? London is another prime example of building code etiquette.
I stand by my feeling. It is a single minded plan, with no reverence to location. But I'll live.

Last edited by bhawk66; Mar 19, 2019 at 8:27 PM.
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  #1124  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 8:26 PM
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Tom In Chicago Tom In Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
The debate was that designers never take their surroundings into consideration I thought.
The debate was specifically about if/when/how the sun will set and the considerations thereof. . .

Look, you're new here. . . we're all aware what/why architects do what they do so this isn't new. . . don't get hung up on this, play nice and try not to derail the conversation too far off topic. . .

Thanks. . .

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  #1125  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
The debate was that designers never take their surroundings into consideration I thought. Which is completely inane, to use a fellow colleagues term. You said it yourself, the designers considered their surroundings in their design. Okay, you said "crafty homage" like it was an afterthought, I said considered. East Wacker Drive/East River canyon has become historic in it's essence and aura. It in itself is a Chicago landmark, imo. The riverboat business has grown exponentially. It is a huge tourist draw. Huge. Isn't it a reasonable suggestion to consider that dynamic? Ever notice nothing gets built around the Eifel Tower? (I know that's a wild comparison, but it holds that decisions were made to prevent poor views) London is another prime example of building code etiquette.
I stand by my feeling. It is a single minded plan, with no reverence to location. But I'll live.
Agreed Bhawk. For the most part views are not protected, and not saying anyone building's views should be protected at Wolf Point. What I was getting at is this site plan absolutely just sticks a wall into the river corridor, a giant, wavy, dirty, streaky glass wall. There's nothing architecturally appealing about this. It will however create a new spatial dynamic, especially when the west side of river gets filled in and will become a true box canyon without an open end. At least a rounded, tapered tower could have allowed more light down to the river, played off Trump and 333 Wacker. This to me is a great opportunity lost. The new river canyon will still be cool but it wont have the vistas and interplay of towers it could have had with some better planning.
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  #1126  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
The debate was that designers never take their surroundings into consideration I thought. Which is completely inane, to use a fellow colleagues term. You said it yourself, the designers considered their surroundings in the Trump building design. Okay, you said "crafty homage" like it was an afterthought, I said considered. East Wacker Drive/East River canyon has become historic in it's essence and aura. It in itself is a Chicago landmark, imo. The riverboat business has grown exponentially. It is a huge tourist draw. Huge. Isn't it a reasonable suggestion to consider that dynamic? Ever notice nothing gets built around the Eifel Tower? (I know that's a wild comparison, but it holds that decisions were made to prevent poor views) NY could give a rats ass, but have you ever noticed nothing large gets built around the Empire State building? By chance? London is another prime example of building code etiquette.
I stand by my feeling. It is a single minded plan, with no reverence to location. But I'll live.
I think you're conflating "views" with other variables, like style choice or landmark designation. I would be willing to bet "views" were not taken into consideration in any of your stated examples. The riverboat business would do that much better if more towering skyscrapers were built along their routes. If "views" were a contributing factor, how would one building of similar height or taller ever get built next to another?
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  #1127  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 9:18 PM
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This building just seems like a shorter flatter version of OCS.. Not a fan, its sad that this building went from a prominent keystone of the Chicago River to a bland 700-800 ft blue glass office tower to blend in with the rest. WPW and WPE seem to have much more balanced massing and both have proven to have great detailing, so If the new tower has as much attention to detail as its brothers it wouldn't be a complete loss, but still disappointing.
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  #1128  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 9:29 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
I think you're conflating "views" with other variables, like style choice or landmark designation. I would be willing to bet "views" were not taken into consideration in any of your stated examples. The riverboat business would do that much better if more towering skyscrapers were built along their routes. If "views" were a contributing factor, how would one building of similar height or taller ever get built next to another?
I may have been misunderstood. I'm using the term views in reference to the sun set. Not peoples views from within the other buildings. And in my examples I meant views of certain buildings, like the Empire State building. Isn't it great that that gem isn't boxed in by a bunch of glass monstrosities? I initially said I see why they chose this plan because it sells "views" right down the river canyon. Yes. In the mean time they just put up a huge glass wall in front of enormously beneficial sun light. No offense to anyone, but I just don't understand the appeal of a dark shadowy canyon versus wonderful sun splashed river and buildings...like 333's beautiful green glass arc. That was the slot for it to happen. For the most part, say goodbye. Like Mark0 said above, wasted opportunity. Could've accomplished same goals with different plan. Anyway, here we are. Hope it works out.

Last edited by bhawk66; Mar 19, 2019 at 10:31 PM.
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  #1129  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiTownWonder View Post
This building just seems like a shorter flatter version of OCS.. Not a fan, its sad that this building went from a prominent keystone of the Chicago River to a bland 700-800 ft blue glass office tower to blend in with the rest. WPW and WPE seem to have much more balanced massing and both have proven to have great detailing, so If the new tower has as much attention to detail as its brothers it wouldn't be a complete loss, but still disappointing.

ding
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  #1130  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 10:42 PM
chicubs111 chicubs111 is offline
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I agree... such a prime spot we were looking for something iconic...we just get a very nice tower...
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  #1131  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 11:45 PM
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According to everyone that visits this site, every spot in Chicago is iconic and deserves a 1000 footer or it's a bust!

Lemonheads....
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  #1132  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by donnie View Post
According to everyone that visits this site, every spot in Chicago is iconic and deserves a 1000 footer or it's a bust!

Lemonheads....
Wat. We have 1 river split. There's not any other site like it.

Lots want tall buildings in general, but there's no denying this is a special spot.
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  #1133  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 1:40 AM
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Lemonheads....
Forget your umbrella?
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  #1134  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by donnie View Post
According to everyone that visits this site, every spot in Chicago is iconic and deserves a 1000 footer or it's a bust!

Lemonheads....
UHHHH no. More like people screaming "BUILD IT" to anything thats proposed. Wolf point deserves so much better than this.
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  #1135  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 2:24 AM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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And I had so much respect for the Kennedy's...well the older ones. Kids today, smh.
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  #1136  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 5:06 AM
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The renderings make this building look so nice

835 is kinda lame (for this lot) but then again Chicago is one of the world's most spoiled skyscraper cities, so still a great addition
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  #1137  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chicubs111 View Post
I agree... such a prime spot we were looking for something iconic...we just get a very nice tower...
that kinda sums up my feelings as well.

the proposed building is certainly not offensive to me, but i was really hoping for something more magical at this supremely prominent spot.

Hines is playing it safe here. there's nothing objectively wrong with that (that's how successful businesses stay in business), but i imagine the final result will always feel a little bit like a lost opportunity to me.


it's a nice enough tower, but oh what could've been...........
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  #1138  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
that kinda sums up my feelings as well.

the proposed building is certainly not offensive to me, but i was really hoping for something more magical at this supremely prominent spot.

Hines is playing it safe here. there's nothing objectively wrong with that (that's how successful businesses stay in business), but i imagine the final result will always feel a little bit like a lost opportunity to me.


it's a nice enough tower, but oh what could've been...........
There is still hope for something very tall and iconic at the Spire site still, right?
That is another spot that would really stand out.
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  #1139  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chicubs111 View Post
I agree... such a prime spot we were looking for something iconic...we just get a very nice tower...
My feelings on this have bounced around a lot. Now I'm back to "what a letdown". Height is irrelevant. It's not the 835 feet. It's the 835 feet of "meh".

I've also grown less enamored with WPE as its grown. I'm probably in the extreme minority on that. But neither of these really move the needle IMO, after so much anticipation.
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  #1140  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 7:13 PM
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it's just a great spot for an exclamation point and not another part of the great blue glass wall now forming on the river's south branch
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