Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Old&New

It's a tunnel under West temple that I've proposed, not a a skybridge. Yes, I agree with you on most points about skybridge/tunnels, and I tried myself to get CCRI to move the galleria path further North during the planning phase of CCC. But I think one of the stipulations of the convention center hotel is that it is directly connected to the convention center itself in order to be competitive on securing conventions.

Then take the traffic below grade.

[bob rulz]

Is there any evidence that the skybridge is hurting traffic on Main Street? Main Street seems to me to be doing SIGNIFICANTLY better than it was before the City Creek Center was there. I would rather walk up and down Main Street than any other north-south street in downtown SLC, and the street level of Main St. there always seems to be quite crowded during peak times.

I agree that the Salt Palace is ugly and I'm not a fan of how much of a barrier it is. But I would rather it be there than not, since conventions are so essential to the economy and street life of downtown (no matter how crazy those essential oils people are )

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Is there any evidence that the skybridge is hurting traffic on Main Street? Main Street seems to me to be doing SIGNIFICANTLY better than it was before the City Creek Center was there. I would rather walk up and down Main Street than any other north-south street in downtown SLC, and the street level of Main St. there always seems to be quite crowded during peak times.

I agree that the Salt Palace is ugly and I'm not a fan of how much of a barrier it is. But I would rather it be there than not, since conventions are so essential to the economy and street life of downtown (no matter how crazy those essential oils people are )

That's because citycreek still brought tons of people to main street in what was formerly a dead area... but it still kept a ton of these new people off of main street and on the skybridge.

[DCRes]

Originally Posted by airhero

Well if you're like me and happen to know the right of way on West Temple (130 feet) and that the convention center is set back from the sidewalk another 30 feet or so, that makes 160 feet straight across. A tunnel at a 45 degree angle across would be 1.414 times larger, or 226 feet, at least.

Pythagorean Theorem for the win!

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Is there any evidence that the skybridge is hurting traffic on Main Street? Main Street seems to me to be doing SIGNIFICANTLY better than it was before the City Creek Center was there. I would rather walk up and down Main Street than any other north-south street in downtown SLC, and the street level of Main St. there always seems to be quite crowded during peak times.

I agree that the Salt Palace is ugly and I'm not a fan of how much of a barrier it is. But I would rather it be there than not, since conventions are so essential to the economy and street life of downtown (no matter how crazy those essential oils people are )

That's an apples and oranges comparison. Main has Trax, one lane of traffic in each direction, wide sidewalks, tall historic buildings, etc. It would be better to compare the walking experience of those 4 blocks of Main to each other. So 1 being the best and 4 being the worst how would you rank them?

[ajiuO]

The City Creek Center Skybridge has not hurt Main Street at all. There are more people walking along that portion of Main Street now then when the two malls were there. I honestly think that under good weather conditions just as many, if not more people cross the street. There tends to be more foot traffic on the west side of Main probably because that side of the street has about 3 stores only accessible from Main... that’s the real key.

I like the skybridge. I don’t think we need them everywhere but they can work.

I do agree that the salt palac should be moved. It’s real outdated anyway. Besides that it’s a big inconsistent mess. This year when I went to Comic-Con it was raining and the glass was leaking in a lot of different places. I wouldn’t mind it being where it is if we could do it without merging any blocks... but you can’t really do that and still have the same continuous floor space... however I don’t see any reason that we couldn’t put that large continuous floorspace underground... there are no windows in that area anyway. They need to come up with somthing better that’s for sure.

And no, I don’t think the CCH has to be connected. The distance allowed from the salt palace could even put it on a street not directly linkable to the salt palace.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

And no, I don’t think the CCH has to be connected. The distance allowed from the salt palace could even put it on a street not directly linkable to the salt palace.

Yes, you are correct, but the argument goes you can attract more conventions with a connected convention hotel.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

The salt palace is no different. Its isolated, its dry, its hideous, and it contributes so much to the urban blight in and around W. Temple and 200 W that its almost depressing.


I guess I'm getting off topic, but I really, really, really hate the Salt Palace. Its way too flat and it cuts off each side of 100S to the point that the 130 foot wide western portion of 100S has essentially become a "dead" street. That's depressing. Japantown got knocked down for the salt palace.

Is it just the flat proportions of it or the architectural aesthetics? I really like the portion along West Temple. I think the architects did a terrible job on the South Temple new addition with the red concrete, etc.

[i-215]

Hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but I must ask:

With Utah screwing up and losing the Outdoor Retailer's Convention, is there really a need to build the Convention Center Hotel anymore?

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by i-215

Hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but I must ask:

With Utah screwing up and losing the Outdoor Retailer's Convention, is there really a need to build the Convention Center Hotel anymore?

There's more need than ever to build the CCH now. Other large trade-shows will not come here without one. We were lucky to have anything the size of OR without a CCH. If we want to replace the lost revenue from OR and get other large events to come, a CCH is a must.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

That's because citycreek still brought tons of people to main street in what was formerly a dead area... but it still kept a ton of these new people off of main street and on the skybridge.

I think both arguments have their merits. Does a skybridge remove some traffic from the ground? Of course, there is not argument that if you move people through the sky then they do not have to go down to cross and then go back up. With that said does it really do any significant damage to Main? I think there is weak evidence of that. There is already plenty of traffic to drive development up and down Main if there are compelling businesses that give a reason to explore. Also, when you get a multibillion dollar development I think it is immensely reasonable to compromise by allowing them to add a bridge that greatly improves the flow of customers in their development. Retailers have done extensive research into this. Second floor retail is very hard to justify without a continuous connection. Also, try to cross there with the TRAX and cars is already a challenge many times with the number of people so I am glad they are not dumping all the second level people into that crossing.

[asies1981]

Post on the redevelopment plans for the Biomat Building. (Spoiler alert, it will be a remodel, not a rebuild).

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Post on the redevelopment plans for the Biomat Building. (Spoiler alert, it will be a remodel, not a rebuild).

nice

[UrbanDesign]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

I think both arguments have their merits. Does a skybridge remove some traffic from the ground? Of course, there is not argument that if you move people through the sky then they do not have to go down to cross and then go back up. With that said does it really do any significant damage to Main? I think there is weak evidence of that. There is already plenty of traffic to drive development up and down Main if there are compelling businesses that give a reason to explore. Also, when you get a multibillion dollar development I think it is immensely reasonable to compromise by allowing them to add a bridge that greatly improves the flow of customers in their development. Retailers have done extensive research into this. Second floor retail is very hard to justify without a continuous connection. Also, try to cross there with the TRAX and cars is already a challenge many times with the number of people so I am glad they are not dumping all the second level people into that crossing.

When designing CCC, both Nordstrom and Macys wanted to be on the same block. In order to put them on separate blocks, the compromise was the skybridge. I have been told that neither would agree to be at CCC unless the bridge was there. These businesses are also a huge drive for attendance to CCC and thus had leverage to make it happen.

Besides the two big box stores, many other retailers specifically want to be in malls with a certain amount/type of retailers. The bridge made it possible to attract a wider retailer base because they went from essentially 1 block of real estate to two contiguous blocks with the skybridge.

I personally think it's a nice looking landmark for our city. Well designed to not be too visually obtrusive, and able to solve the big box retailer requirement problem. It also creates a nice view down Main that wouldn't be seen otherwise.

[EPdesign]

[Old&New]

Love how we're now considered a mega-city:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...submitted.html

[Pencil]

Mega-city in my eyes

[StevenF]

copy and pasted from a google search. Not there yet but cool to think someone out there thinks the Salt Lake Metro area is that big.


meg·a·cit·y
ˈmeɡəsədē/Submit
noun
noun: mega-city
a very large city, typically one with a population of over ten million people.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

The City Creek Center Skybridge has not hurt Main Street at all. There are more people walking along that portion of Main Street now then when the two malls were there. I honestly think that under good weather conditions just as many, if not more people cross the street. There tends to be more foot traffic on the west side of Main probably because that side of the street has about 3 stores only accessible from Main... that’s the real key.

I like the skybridge. I don’t think we need them everywhere but they can work.

I couldn't agree with you more! The fact that there's a TRAX station almost directly underneath the skybridge I think counteracts, if not totally eliminates, any negative effect the skybridge may have had. I think it was a good design decision.

Originally Posted by jubguy3

That's because citycreek still brought tons of people to main street in what was formerly a dead area... but it still kept a ton of these new people off of main street and on the skybridge.

I just don't think it's true.

Main Street was a ghost town when the malls were there compared to how it is now, and that includes up and down a block either way. Main Street seems so much livelier, and there's hardly an empty storefront to be found in that stretch.

And especially since a lot of visitors to City Creek are from out of town, a lot of people that visit CCC take TRAX or walk there from nearby hotels, which means that foot traffic is on the streets around it as well, not just in the mall. Add in the booming amount of residential going into surrounding neighborhoods, and Main Street is in better shape than it's been in 20+ years.

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

That's an apples and oranges comparison. Main has Trax, one lane of traffic in each direction, wide sidewalks, tall historic buildings, etc. It would be better to compare the walking experience of those 4 blocks of Main to each other. So 1 being the best and 4 being the worst how would you rank them?

I don't know which 4 blocks you're talking about. Do you mean each block is Main Street between 100 S and South Temple, 200S/100S, etc?

Originally Posted by i-215

Hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but I must ask:

With Utah screwing up and losing the Outdoor Retailer's Convention, is there really a need to build the Convention Center Hotel anymore?

Definitely. Have you ever seen how many major essential oils conventions we have? They bring in visitors from all over, especially Asia. Doterra brought about 35,000 iirc. Not to mention we would have little to no hope of attracting another major trade show or other major conventions like that without it.

[EPdesign]