Port of Vancouver Discussion

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Wreck beach Welcome to Vancouver cruise ship goers.

Sea Island is the closest that could work, but would Swiwash (sic) Island get it the way? Also would the cruise ships size/height interfere with Air traffic.

Otherwise with the rumors of reduced BC ferry service at Horseshoe, could that be used, probably too far ?

What are the chances of US lawmakers amending the Jones Act?

Ron.

Horseshoe bay has zero capacity and is in need of upgrades that are going to be extremely complicated because they cant shut down any of the berths. One solution was to move the Nanaimo run to Tsawwassen to free up sapce for the upgrades. The second option is to build a fixed link to Sunshine Coast (study was supposed to be released last quarter 2016 but still nothing on the fixed link via Squamish or Anvil Island).

Anyways there is no room in Horseshoebay.

My bet would be Stevenston assuming they could dredge the river there a bit more. You can 100% see the mountains from there, it is a huge tourist draw, and shuttles can move people to downtown or to the skytrain. The Stevston area is very compatible with cruise ship type tourists. Second option is Squamish, though that is rather far from Vancouver and imo not really developed for cruise ship type tourists, yet.

Personally I would raise the lions gate bridge or rebuild it and stick with Burrard inlet if possible. Or honestly just get rid of that bridge all together and replace it with a new tunneled crossing. Sure it will cost money but it will be around for the next 100 years and solve a major congestion problem and free up the harbor to all size ships.

[moosejaw]

Replace a bridge for large cruise ships? Never gonna happen with this city
I would assume they would rather let Victoria have the cruise ship traffic.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Horseshoe bay has zero capacity and is in need of upgrades that are going to be extremely complicated because they cant shut down any of the berths. One solution was to move the Nanaimo run to Tsawwassen to free up sapce for the upgrades. The second option is to build a fixed link to Sunshine Coast (study was supposed to be released last quarter 2016 but still nothing on the fixed link via Squamish or Anvil Island).

Anyways there is no room in Horseshoebay.

My bet would be Stevenston assuming they could dredge the river there a bit more. You can 100% see the mountains from there, it is a huge tourist draw, and shuttles can move people to downtown or to the skytrain. The Stevston area is very compatible with cruise ship type tourists. Second option is Squamish, though that is rather far from Vancouver and imo not really developed for cruise ship type tourists, yet.

Thank you for this tidbit re:Horseshoe, Steveston would be nice, too bad the old Railway ROW is gone, otherwise Richmond could have had a nice LRT to connect Steveston with the Centre.

I assume Sea Island's southern terminal would also require massive dredging?

Ron.

[s211]

Originally Posted by cornholio

My bet would be Stevenston assuming they could dredge the river there a bit more. You can 100% see the mountains from there, it is a huge tourist draw

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by s211

Are you implying the mountains are not close and easily seen from Stevston?
https://www.google.cz/maps/@49.11854...!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Or is this some joke about the smoke from the fires you all had over there recently?

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Are you implying the mountains are not close and easily seen from Stevston?
https://www.google.cz/maps/@49.11854...!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Or is this some joke about the smoke from the fires you all had over there recently?

Honestly, I kind of like this idea...

The more that I have thought about this, the more I think that sticking a terminal at Point Grey would be a great incentive to get that Broadway SkyTrain tunnel rolling...

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Are you implying the mountains are not close and easily seen from Stevston?
https://www.google.cz/maps/@49.11854...!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Or is this some joke about the smoke from the fires you all had over there recently?

Tourists want to go to the mountains, not see them in the distance. The north shore is filled with tourists in the summer. People come here for nature, the city itself is sub-par.

[ClaytonA]

So Deltaport now has 2 Megamax cranes;

... The new cranes will be among the largest in the Americas when commissioned and be able to handle the world’s largest vessels in service, the release said. Standing over 137 metres high, the new cranes have a lift capacity of 65 tonnes and boast an outreach of more than 23 containers wide. ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20170906...ships-coming-/

[ClaytonA]

Rupert installed Malacca Max cranes for 20,000+ TEU ships this year;

https://web.archive.org/web/20170906...-crane-arrival

... The three Malacca-max dock gantry cranes further enhance Prince Rupert's reputation as "big ship ready." Each crane is equipped with a horizontal reach of 25 containers and is capable of working the largest vessels in the world.

When the expansion project is complete, the capacity of Fairview Terminal will increase by half-a-million TEUs, boosting its total capacity from 850,000 to 1.35 million TEUs. ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20170906...ew-2-expansion

... The terminal now includes a second vessel berth serviced by three new “big ship ready” Malacca-max cranes, allowing 20,000+ TEU vessels to access the terminal through one of the deepest port harbours in the world. In addition, 6,000 more feet of on-dock rail and an 11 hectare increase to the terminal footprint will add even more speed and reliability to terminal services.

As cargo volumes grow to fill the new capacity, over 200 new jobs are expected to be created on the terminal. ...

pics; http://www.thenorthernview.com/news/...prince-rupert/

[ClaytonA]

Here's an article describing what race the BC ports are in:

http://www.ship-technology.com/featu...ports-4974826/

...With so few ports having the necessary infrastructure, market dynamics are shifting. “If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got,” says Huck, when asked if ports are under too much pressure to adapt. “That pressure...at the end of the day, you either invest in your customers or you don't. It really does come down to that.” Clayton agrees: “Change is a constant: customers can’t be taken for granted.”

In a talk at the Global Liner Shipping Conference in April, APM Terminals chief executive Kim Fejfer announced boldly that change in the port industry “has been more pronounced in the past two years than in the past twenty”. ...

... transported goods from mega ships are usually destined for regions, not just cities. ...

That last quote emphasizes that upgrading rail and highway connections between Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, and inland is part of the Port of Vancouver being competitive with Seattle (also expanding) and Portland.

[jollyburger]

New Port of Vancouver rules for pleasure craft around Burrard Inlet (got revised because some people thought they were too restrictive)

http://www.nsnews.com/news/port-of-v...ers-1.23070746

[casper]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Horseshoe bay has zero capacity and is in need of upgrades that are going to be extremely complicated because they cant shut down any of the berths. One solution was to move the Nanaimo run to Tsawwassen to free up sapce for the upgrades. The second option is to build a fixed link to Sunshine Coast (study was supposed to be released last quarter 2016 but still nothing on the fixed link via Squamish or Anvil Island).

Anyways there is no room in Horseshoebay.

My bet would be Stevenston assuming they could dredge the river there a bit more. You can 100% see the mountains from there, it is a huge tourist draw, and shuttles can move people to downtown or to the skytrain. The Stevston area is very compatible with cruise ship type tourists. Second option is Squamish, though that is rather far from Vancouver and imo not really developed for cruise ship type tourists, yet.

Personally I would raise the lions gate bridge or rebuild it and stick with Burrard inlet if possible. Or honestly just get rid of that bridge all together and replace it with a new tunneled crossing. Sure it will cost money but it will be around for the next 100 years and solve a major congestion problem and free up the harbor to all size ships.

Tsawwassen would be a good potential location. A good percentage of passengers are actually flying into Seattle and taking the train or busses to get up to Vancouver. That port is a little bit closer to the US. It is also a fairly reasonable bus ride from YVR.

If you look at the cruise ship port in places like Rome or LA it is actually a fair distance from the city centre.

Build space for one ship in Tsawwassen, leave the three existing downtown births. The terminal building does not have to be a building at all. The Rome terminal (Civitavecchia) is actually a Teflon based temporary structure.

[whatnext]

Port eyes cruise ship terminal in Richmond
Supersized boats are getting too big for the likes of Canada Place

With cruise lines now building bigger ships, which Canada Place simply won’t be able to accommodate, the Port of Vancouver has begun preliminary studies on a potential cruise ship facility either at Richmond or perhaps Roberts Bank...

http://richmond-news.com/news/port-e...ond-1.23087835

Bet that's news to Richmond, though there was a pocket cruise ship from National Geographic docked in Steveston this summer. Can you imagine Roberts Bank? Last time you sailed into beautiful Vancouver Harbour under the Lions Gate with the mountains on one side, this time you dock beside a dusty coal terminal. Nice.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by whatnext

[I]Port eyes cruise ship terminal in Richmond

Bet that's news to Richmond, though there was a pocket cruise ship from National Geographic docked in Steveston this summer. Can you imagine Roberts Bank? Last time you sailed into beautiful Vancouver Harbour under the Lions Gate with the mountains on one side, this time you dock beside a dusty coal terminal. Nice.

Wonder what brodies reaction will be to this news!

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Port eyes cruise ship terminal in Richmond
Supersized boats are getting too big for the likes of Canada Place

With cruise lines now building bigger ships, which Canada Place simply won’t be able to accommodate, the Port of Vancouver has begun preliminary studies on a potential cruise ship facility either at Richmond or perhaps Roberts Bank...

http://richmond-news.com/news/port-e...ond-1.23087835

Bet that's news to Richmond, though there was a pocket cruise ship from National Geographic docked in Steveston this summer. Can you imagine Roberts Bank? Last time you sailed into beautiful Vancouver Harbour under the Lions Gate with the mountains on one side, this time you dock beside a dusty coal terminal. Nice.

Seems Steveston would be a bit far off the beaten track. It seems to me that having a cruise terminal centrally located would have more economic benefits for the city.

Wasn't there a proposal some time back to build a BC Ferries terminal at Iona Island near YVR? Wonder if that could work for cruise ships. Added benefit that it is close to the airport for American passengers.

[Xrayal]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Seems Steveston would be a bit far off the beaten track. It seems to me that having a cruise terminal centrally located would have more economic benefits for the city.

I agree that Steveston is not central or well equipped to deal with a large cruise ship. However I can't find an alternate location that has the potential I see in Steveston. First I would suggest the port ask "Steveston" if they are interested, because if they generally don't see the benefits and downsides that come with something like this then I would just move on.

I propose building the terminal on Shady island just in front of Steveston. Its a man made island made from materials from dredging. Extent No.2 road via tunnel to the island for vehicle access. No.2 road also runs directly to the airport. Partner with Richmond and Translink to extend the Canada line to Steveston via Granville Ave and Railroad Ave then tunnel to the new terminal on Shady island. We would get the benefits of the extension everyday but it would also connect the new cruise ship terminal to the airport and downtown.
OK. Constructive comments please?

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Wasn't there a proposal some time back to build a BC Ferries terminal at Iona Island near YVR? Wonder if that could work for cruise ships. Added benefit that it is close to the airport for American passengers.

I looked at Sea island. My questions. Are the north Fraser channels deep enough? Would be worth the dredging if possible? What are the requirements of being near runways? If you placed it anywhere near the South terminal what impacts would it have on operations there. Would this location preclude any direct rapid transit options to the new terminal?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Xrayal

I agree that Steveston is not central or well equipped to deal with a large cruise ship. However I can't find an alternate location that has the potential I see in Steveston. First I would suggest the port ask "Steveston" if they are interested, because if they generally don't see the benefits and downsides that come with something like this then I would just move on.

I propose building the terminal on Shady island just in front of Steveston. Its a man made island made from materials from dredging. Extent No.2 road via tunnel to the island for vehicle access. No.2 road also runs directly to the airport. Partner with Richmond and Translink to extend the Canada line to Steveston via Granville Ave and Railroad Ave then tunnel to the new terminal on Shady island. We would get the benefits of the extension everyday but it would also connect the new cruise ship terminal to the airport and downtown.
OK. Constructive comments please?


I looked at Sea island. My questions. Are the north Fraser channels deep enough? Would be worth the dredging if possible? What are the requirements of being near runways? If you placed it anywhere near the South terminal what impacts would it have on operations there. Would this location preclude any direct rapid transit options to the new terminal?

It would have to be way offshore, just like the Ferry Terminal and Deltaport.

[wrenegade]

Pardon me if this is naive, but can't the first narrows be dredged to allow for larger/taller ships, and Canada Place expanded? Seems like that would be simpler than building another cruise terminal, especially if its in the middle of nowhere.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

Pardon me if this is naive, but can't the first narrows be dredged to allow for larger/taller ships, and Canada Place expanded? Seems like that would be simpler than building another cruise terminal, especially if its in the middle of nowhere.

The bridge is too short. That's the basis of this discussion. The new cruise ships are too tall to fit under the Lions Gate, but their draft is too deep to fit in most other locations.

[wrenegade]

So even at low tide, regardless of the draft, the ships are too tall?