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  #1221  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 7:17 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Originally Posted by windypeg View Post
It's pretty widely understood these days that the extent to which we're dependent on cars is a huge problem and that any way we can get more people to use alternatives like walking is a plus so that's a pretty backwards argument. It's like "well, you're already obese so why bother eating a salad?"

I think maybe it should read "Regrettably our society is built to be dependent on cars and an intersection isn't going to change that. But it doesn't mean that we can't try to make it a little bit better.

Obviously traffic congestion is what you're worried about. Traffic congestion exists because cars take up a crazy amount of space compared to other modes of transportation. The attitude "Well everyone drives already so why would we bother trying anything else - everything should just revolve around cars" is a surefire recipe for more congestion.
We should do so by improving alternate modes of transportation but you seem to forget that business vehicles, delivery vehicles, transit buses, taxis, tractors and heavy equipment are all necessary and can't just be fazed out by walking and cycling. It's not regrettable that vehicles are a big part of society, maybe regrettable that we over use vehicle.
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  #1222  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by plrh View Post
Has anyone seen construction photos for the underground concourse? I think I would really like to see some. That would have been hard on traffic for a year or two.
http://umanitoba.ca/libraries/units/...to.php?id=3967


Photographer: Thordarson Date: December 17, 1977
Heading: Winnipeg Underground Concourse (Portage and Main) 1968-1980
Caption: Surveyors taking readings as construction of concourse proceeds
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  #1223  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 7:54 PM
ywgwalk ywgwalk is offline
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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
We should do so by improving alternate modes of transportation but you seem to forget that business vehicles, delivery vehicles, transit buses, taxis, tractors and heavy equipment are all necessary and can't just be fazed out by walking and cycling. It's not regrettable that vehicles are a big part of society, maybe regrettable that we over use vehicle.
I don't think anyone is suggesting we close downtown to vehicles, just lower the priority of them a bit. Doing that is far from phasing them out and does a great job of improving alternate modes of transportation.
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  #1224  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 8:01 PM
windypeg windypeg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
We should do so by improving alternate modes of transportation but you seem to forget that business vehicles, delivery vehicles, transit buses, taxis, tractors and heavy equipment are all necessary and can't just be fazed out by walking and cycling. It's not regrettable that vehicles are a big part of society, maybe regrettable that we over use vehicle.
So are they planning on just completely closing the intersection off to traffic and making it pedestrian-only? I must have missed that memo. I was under the impression vehicles could still use it.

I don't know what portion of traffic thru P&M falls into those above categories but I'm sure its in the minority. The vast majority of people passing thru that intersection could use alternatives. If we got more regular commuters out of their cars by prioritizing things like walking/biking/transit it would free up a lot of road space for those vehicles that truly need the road and have no alternative.
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  #1225  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 8:02 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Originally Posted by ywgwalk View Post
I don't think anyone is suggesting we close downtown to vehicles, just lower the priority of them a bit. Doing that is far from phasing them out and does a great job of improving alternate modes of transportation.
A few people have sid that on here haha. I don't think we should encourage people to use alternate means by making one way worse. The key is to improve improve the alternate means such as improving transit and cycling. I don't think we should make those more appealing by making driving harder. If you make transit and cycling easier people will gravitate to it on their own.
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  #1226  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 8:07 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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dmacc may your job is dependent on cars, but I'd be confident saying most people, especially downtown workers', jobs are not. And no one is saying close the intersection and take every car away from Portage and Main. My god the hyperbole.
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  #1227  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 8:13 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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I think you might be right, I made my opinion known which prompted other peoples opinion and what started as good back and forth has evolved into nonsense and exaggeration.

I do think that if they open it up that they are doing the right thing opening up Portage east. That's likely the side with the least amount of traffic and will have the smallest impact.
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  #1228  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 9:27 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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Urbanist hippies: Stop the "cars are a problem for our society" line. That's how this issue, if it gets debated publicly by our elected officials, will die.

It's not pedestrians vs cars, since traffic won't even be bad. It's about a vibrant downtown vs a stagnant one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
The problem is that it isn't a 1 minute delay. If the intersection prevents 2 cars that would otherwise pass through the intersection per light cycle in any particular direction and the light cycles every 60 seconds. after an hour you now have an additional 120 cars backed up in just one direction. now it is no longer a 1 minute delay but exponentially greater. Imagine the carbon footprint that leaves. All because you can't take the three minute walk to go to the crossable intersections at pioneer or Market or WS.
If it were a 20 second crossing of the intersection rather than a 3 minute walk or 5 minute underground adventure, maybe less people would drive.
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post


Maybe the issue isn't the people...the carbon footprint would be much less if it wasn't for the cars!
Like this... it's a fair point but now it can easily be divided into a left/right debate. Keep it about a strong downtown and then we could have left and right overlap.
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Originally Posted by windypeg View Post
People exaggerate about traffic "chaos" all the time.
It's a basic bitch move, IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
A few people have sid that on here haha. I don't think we should encourage people to use alternate means by making one way worse. The key is to improve improve the alternate means such as improving transit and cycling. I don't think we should make those more appealing by making driving harder. If you make transit and cycling easier people will gravitate to it on their own.
It's hard to do, because Winnipeggers have been brainwashed by politicians about "traffic" and "safety" at P+M that so few actually know it was a condition to a development. Winnipeggers have to acknowledge that our "status quo" at P+M is radically absurd compared to what any other major intersections in other cities.

Foot traffic is a necessity, and we should stop making pedestrian life, or our economic viablity worse by maintaining such an absurd status quo.
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  #1229  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 10:05 PM
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This is cool from Brent Bellamy twitter
@brent_bellamy
#FridayFunFact: Buried inside 201 Portage, Winnipeg’s tallest tower, is an old CN building, saved for the costly telecommunications connected to it. Inside looks like they just got up from their desks and walked away. There’s even a bowling trophy on the desk. Windows are opaque.








@brent_bellamy
Here’s a cool construction timeline of 201 Portage showing how the old building was kept and built around. Building to the left was eventually demolished to make the plaza.


Also such a shame this was torn down for the phase two that never happened and is now the plaza for 201 portage, this sure was a handsome building.

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  #1230  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 10:11 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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It was called cn/cp telecommunications. I worked there as a summer student delivering telegrams if you can believe it. Watched Bobby Hull signing from the big front window. If you wanted to send or receive money by wire transfer that is where you had to go. That was the main business line.

Last edited by Tacheguy; Jun 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM.
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  #1231  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 7:10 PM
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oftheMoon oftheMoon is offline
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I'm sure it's been mentioned on here before, but it just dawned on me again as I drove NB Main through the intersection that there's a light cycle when the only moving traffic on and off of Portage Ave E would be vehicles heading NB Main wanting to turn right to go EB on Portage Ave E - which is very infrequent from what I've seen.

Allowing pedestrians to cross Portage Ave E north/south on the east side of Main would have next to zero disruption on traffic.

Makes sense the City wants to start with this manoeuvre, because let's be honest here, nobody will even notice any difference...
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  #1232  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 8:59 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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^Yup. Pretty much the only people ever turning (or needing to turn) right there are going to the Fairmont. Portage East goes to Provencher, so anyone coming north on Main would be taking W Stephenson anyway.

Between opening P&M, AT improvements, general traffic improvements, upcoming Transit/RT changes, changes coming to roads in The Forks... The city needs to look holistically at the intersection of Main & William Stephenson (/Pioneer). That should be where all traffic coming from Main/York turns to go to St. B (not through The Forks), as well as coming from North Main (turn lane needs to be improved).

One could argue you may not even need any EB traffic on Portage East if the Main & W.S./Pioneer intersection is reconfigured properly. Make it WB only, traffic comes from Westbrook. Hyatt gets a loading zone out front, and the city can expand the P&M SE corner to make it better and safer for pedestrians AND/or put in some angled parking. Current WB lanes stay as is. Now that McDermot is one-way, Lombard and Portage East are the ONLY two-way streets from Market to York on the east side of Main – can be kind of confusing anyway.
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  #1233  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2018, 5:06 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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Fairmont announced yesterday it has joined Le Club Accor Hotels...

It's a big multinational company that brings lots of smaller or independent chains onto a joint points program to compete with the behemoths. Good sign, could help lead to these rumoured major investments/renos coming up.
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  #1234  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 1:39 PM
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oftheMoon oftheMoon is offline
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Bowman tweeted this morning that he will be supporting a motion coming forward to Council tomorrow proposing that a referendum question on the future of Portage and Main be added to the municipal election later this fall.

"Most importantly, even though a referendum isn’t binding on a future Council, Winnipeggers will expect the results to be honoured which I'm committed to do regardless of the outcome."

https://twitter.com/Mayor_Bowman/sta...60886023938048

https://twitter.com/Mayor_Bowman/sta...61367358132225
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  #1235  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 1:43 PM
plrh plrh is offline
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That's too bad about Bowman. I thought we already voted for opening up the intersection when we voted for him the first time. Now who do I vote for? I want the intersection open but I don't want the guy who couldn't get it done the first time!
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  #1236  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 2:12 PM
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How utterly disappointing.
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  #1237  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 2:21 PM
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HomeInMyShoes HomeInMyShoes is offline
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So, guesses on the referendum outcome?

Open: 49%
Closed: 51%

I'm curious to see the referendum wording.
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  #1238  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 2:24 PM
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roccerfeller roccerfeller is offline
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We know Bowman wants the intersection opened, but if he loses the election over this issue, how can he push to open it? This takes away his opponent's biggest bashing play

Pure politics

Real shame though, overall, but I understand why he's backpedaling
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  #1239  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 2:39 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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What a joke. I want a referendum to fix my front street. It's a mess.
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  #1240  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 2:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
So, guesses on the referendum outcome?

Open: 49%
Closed: 51%

I'm curious to see the referendum wording.
Most recent probe poll has it at 42% want to open. Not surprisingly, those in the 18-34 demographic, 61% want it opened.

My assumption is older demographics vote in higher numbers than the younger, so it'll lose at a referendum. Hopefully there will be a campaign to educate people on the real reasons it was closed, cause there is a lot of misinformation out there.
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