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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2013, 9:27 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Originally Posted by morty View Post
Thanks for the info! That's disappointing, it would've been a good opportunity to get rid of an dangerous, outdated design.
So being dangerous and outdated. Is that the fact that east/westbound traffic would have to cross the bridge prior to exiting. Where as the parclo would direct them off the highway prior to the bridge, then down and around the loop?
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2013, 9:55 PM
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So being dangerous and outdated. Is that the fact that east/westbound traffic would have to cross the bridge prior to exiting. Where as the parclo would direct them off the highway prior to the bridge, then down and around the loop?
Yeah, that's pretty much it. A parclo requires traffic lights on one road as it's a freeway-arterial interchange. But since the speed limit on Pembina is 50 or 60 in that area, it doesn't really need to be free flowing.

A parclo (only one in the city is Pembina and Bishop) takes all the exiting traffic off the highway, then provides separate merge lanes for entering traffic. Whereas with a cloverleaf, cars are accelerating up to 100 to merge as well as slowing down for the loop exit ramp, all in the same small strech of lane.

It's relatively cheap to convert a cloverleaf to a parclo, as all you have to do is close 2 loop ramps and realign/expand right turn ramps into exit ramps. The government could probably even make some money off it by selling the newly-freed up land just south of De Vos Road.

Parclo:


Cloverleaf:
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2013, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by morty View Post
Yeah, that's pretty much it. A parclo requires traffic lights on one road as it's a freeway-arterial interchange. But since the speed limit on Pembina is 50 or 60 in that area, it doesn't really need to be free flowing.

A parclo (only one in the city is Pembina and Bishop) takes all the exiting traffic off the highway, then provides separate merge lanes for entering traffic. Whereas with a cloverleaf, cars are accelerating up to 100 to merge as well as slowing down for the loop exit ramp, all in the same small strech of lane.

It's relatively cheap to convert a cloverleaf to a parclo, as all you have to do is close 2 loop ramps and realign/expand right turn ramps into exit ramps. The government could probably even make some money off it by selling the newly-freed up land just south of De Vos Road.

Parclo:
http://i.imgur.com/0ZbQxc9.jpg

Cloverleaf:
http://i.imgur.com/Sgxv049.jpg
Yeah, I get all that.

That's why CentrePort cloverleaf has the additional bridges for acceleration and deceleration. It lets vehicles decelerate and exit prior to traffic merging and accelerating.

PTH 59 and PTH 101 will also have the additional bridge on one side. The other side has the flyover so no issue there. Let me rephrase that, PTH 59/PTH 101 will have those bridges WHEN it get's built.

But I agree that the Pembina/PTH 100 cloverleaf could become a parclo. I would hold off selling the land though! Winnipeg's done enough of that over time.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 1:31 PM
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I think that i would be more in favor of spending the money on adding one or two new grade separations every year rather than redesigning the few existing ones we have. I get what you are saying though. This province seems to be stuck in the 70s thinking that every interchange needs to be a cloverleaf. They need to start adding simple diamond interchanges ($10 to 15 million for rural) on these major highways - Hwy 1, Hwy 75 and the Perimeter.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I think that i would be more in favor of spending the money on adding one or two new grade separations every year rather than redesigning the few existing ones we have. I get what you are saying though. This province seems to be stuck in the 70s thinking that every interchange needs to be a cloverleaf. They need to start adding simple diamond interchanges ($10 to 15 million for rural) on these major highways - Hwy 1, Hwy 75 and the Perimeter.
I completely agree with you. No reason that both can't be done, but neither will happen. I think the solution would be a 1 % sales tax that is actually dedicated to transportation infrastructure. Maybe 50% to new highway infrastructure, 50% to transit infrastructure. Compared to either of our neighbouring provinces, Manitoba's highways are abysmal. Perimeter should be a full freeway, or at least have some diamond interchanges put up at Highway 3, St Mary's, Pipeline, etc.
As far as I know, there aren't even firm target dates for the 59/101 or 16/1 interchanges.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by morty View Post
I completely agree with you. No reason that both can't be done, but neither will happen. I think the solution would be a 1 % sales tax that is actually dedicated to transportation infrastructure. Maybe 50% to new highway infrastructure, 50% to transit infrastructure. Compared to either of our neighbouring provinces, Manitoba's highways are abysmal. Perimeter should be a full freeway, or at least have some diamond interchanges put up at Highway 3, St Mary's, Pipeline, etc.
As far as I know, there aren't even firm target dates for the 59/101 or 16/1 interchanges.
From what I've heard and others on here as well, the cost of flooding over the last number of years has put these projects on hold indefinitely. People continue to lose their lives at those locations, such a disgrace to this province.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 5:29 PM
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From what I've heard and others on here as well, the cost of flooding over the last number of years has put these projects on hold indefinitely. People continue to lose their lives at those locations, such a disgrace to this province.
59/101 is sort of an ever evolving project likely to encompass more of the rebuilding of 59 north to just past Birds Hill Rd. It will happen, they are just trying to secure more funding. The 1/16 intersection is on indefinite hold.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
59/101 is sort of an ever evolving project likely to encompass more of the rebuilding of 59 north to just past Birds Hill Rd. It will happen, they are just trying to secure more funding. The 1/16 intersection is on indefinite hold.
That's what I like to hear about 59/101. I think I've heard somewhere the project will include the pedestrian bridge over the Perimeter and possibly the diamond interchange at Bird's Hill Road. That would be ideal.

It's funny though. There's going to be this massive interchange with flyover. Yet at the south end there will be lights on Lagimodiere at Headmaster. So the bottleneck will move from the Perimeter back to Headmaster for Lag.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
That's what I like to hear about 59/101. I think I've heard somewhere the project will include the pedestrian bridge over the Perimeter and possibly the diamond interchange at Bird's Hill Road. That would be ideal.

It's funny though. There's going to be this massive interchange with flyover. Yet at the south end there will be lights on Lagimodiere at Headmaster. So the bottleneck will move from the Perimeter back to Headmaster for Lag.
Fortunately, with the Headmaster lights they are triggered only when there is traffic stopped. Otherwise they are solid green on Lag.

I remember seeing something about a diamond interchange and the extension of Headmaster east past Lag. But that probably wont happen in our lifetime.

The clusterfuck that is 59/101 is horrible. I really wish that project was rolling full steam ahead already. It's such a dangerous and stupid layout.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2013, 8:57 PM
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Fortunately, with the Headmaster lights they are triggered only when there is traffic stopped. Otherwise they are solid green on Lag.

I remember seeing something about a diamond interchange and the extension of Headmaster east past Lag. But that probably wont happen in our lifetime.

The clusterfuck that is 59/101 is horrible. I really wish that project was rolling full steam ahead already. It's such a dangerous and stupid layout.
That's good to know, about the lights being green. But with the new Timmy's that's gone in on the NW corner, I'm sure a lot of cottagers will be stopping prior to hitting the highway!
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2013, 4:09 PM
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I know that this is a Winnipeg-specific thread but I thought that this Manitoba traffic flow map might be of interest:

http://umtig.eng.umanitoba.ca/mhtis/flowmap2011.pdf

It shows the annual average daily traffic for provincial highways. I understand that an AADT of about 6,500 is where you start having the conversation about twinning a highway, and by that measure Manitoba actually isn’t doing too badly. There are only a few short stretches of untwinned road that approach or exceed that number.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2013, 5:21 PM
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Very cool find, thanks.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2013, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I know that this is a Winnipeg-specific thread but I thought that this Manitoba traffic flow map might be of interest:

http://umtig.eng.umanitoba.ca/mhtis/flowmap2011.pdf

It shows the annual average daily traffic for provincial highways. I understand that an AADT of about 6,500 is where you start having the conversation about twinning a highway, and by that measure Manitoba actually isn’t doing too badly. There are only a few short stretches of untwinned road that approach or exceed that number.
Thanks, I've seen that one before. Only reinforces the need for the 59/101 interchange completion. Highest traffic volumes in the province on the stretch of Perimeter from Route 90 to Lag.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2013, 1:50 PM
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Anybody know if the Perimeter bridge over CCW opened today? As my "source" told me a couple weeks back it would.

Another question, this one about the Panet/Molson project. The province provided an extra $2M in funding for the project. So is the scope expanding to include more of Molson? Or will the cities contribution be less now?
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2013, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Anybody know if the Perimeter bridge over CCW opened today? As my "source" told me a couple weeks back it would.

Another question, this one about the Panet/Molson project. The province provided an extra $2M in funding for the project. So is the scope expanding to include more of Molson? Or will the cities contribution be less now?
No, that is the Province's contribution to the over-all project cost as currently designed. It is not that the City's contribution will be reduced, it was planned this way from the start. The provincial dollars made the project viable for the City.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Anybody know if the Perimeter bridge over CCW opened today? As my "source" told me a couple weeks back it would.
It did not open yesterday but all signs point to it happening this week with two-way traffic on the south bound lanes while work is completed on the north bound approaches after the temporary road is closed.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2013, 5:07 PM
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No, that is the Province's contribution to the over-all project cost as currently designed. It is not that the City's contribution will be reduced, it was planned this way from the start. The provincial dollars made the project viable for the City.
Ahh i see, thanks.

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It did not open yesterday but all signs point to it happening this week with two-way traffic on the south bound lanes while work is completed on the north bound approaches after the temporary road is closed.
Also thanks. Some good news coming out of the CCW project finally.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2013, 5:46 PM
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I was just looking at the Plessis Underpass page here:
http://winnipeg.ca/publicworks/Major...ss/default.asp

FAQ 5: Will traffic be restricted from travelling on Bournais Drive?
Traffic is not expected to be restricted on Bournais Drive; the City will monitor traffic prior to and during construction. The use of Bournais Drive as an alternative route during construction is not encouraged. Discussions are ongoing with Bernie Wolfe Community School and the River East Transcona School Division. Signage will be placed at strategic locations encouraging drivers to use alternative routes before entering the area.

"The use of Bournais Drive as an alternative route during construction is not encouraged"

What does the City expect everyone to use?! Get those magical flying cars that don't use roads? The only other options are Ravenhurst, which is basically at the perimeter. Or Lag which is further west. Almost 8km by along the rail line between the two. So you're potentially looking at a 10-15km detour through city traffic to get from one side to the other.

I doubt someone who lives in the middle will be driving that far out of the way. Bournais will be ridiculous.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2013, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I was just looking at the Plessis Underpass page here:
http://winnipeg.ca/publicworks/Major...ss/default.asp

FAQ 5: Will traffic be restricted from travelling on Bournais Drive?
Traffic is not expected to be restricted on Bournais Drive; the City will monitor traffic prior to and during construction. The use of Bournais Drive as an alternative route during construction is not encouraged. Discussions are ongoing with Bernie Wolfe Community School and the River East Transcona School Division. Signage will be placed at strategic locations encouraging drivers to use alternative routes before entering the area.

"The use of Bournais Drive as an alternative route during construction is not encouraged"

What does the City expect everyone to use?! Get those magical flying cars that don't use roads? The only other options are Ravenhurst, which is basically at the perimeter. Or Lag which is further west. Almost 8km by along the rail line between the two. So you're potentially looking at a 10-15km detour through city traffic to get from one side to the other.

I doubt someone who lives in the middle will be driving that far out of the way. Bournais will be ridiculous.
If safety is the issue the City and the school division can mitigate this problem by a slight redesign of Bournais from it's current design-speed of 50 km/h to a design-speed of 40 km/h by narrowing the street temporarily. You won't create a safer street by dropping the speed limit while designing the street to the higher speed limit's standard.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2013, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I was just looking at the Plessis Underpass page here:
http://winnipeg.ca/publicworks/Major...ss/default.asp

FAQ 5: Will traffic be restricted from travelling on Bournais Drive?
Traffic is not expected to be restricted on Bournais Drive; the City will monitor traffic prior to and during construction. The use of Bournais Drive as an alternative route during construction is not encouraged. Discussions are ongoing with Bernie Wolfe Community School and the River East Transcona School Division. Signage will be placed at strategic locations encouraging drivers to use alternative routes before entering the area.

"The use of Bournais Drive as an alternative route during construction is not encouraged"

What does the City expect everyone to use?! Get those magical flying cars that don't use roads? The only other options are Ravenhurst, which is basically at the perimeter. Or Lag which is further west. Almost 8km by along the rail line between the two. So you're potentially looking at a 10-15km detour through city traffic to get from one side to the other.

I doubt someone who lives in the middle will be driving that far out of the way. Bournais will be ridiculous.
Driving that far out of the way coming from where? The only issue would be for people coming from the South via Plessis. Isn't the far larger traffic volume from people coming from downtown via Dugald? Easy enough to route them down Lag to Regent instead.
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