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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 5:50 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
look at Place Promenade, it was a pretty nice complex when it opened in the late 80s but it's a little down at the heels now.
I think often that's from a lack of maintenance. Kind of a chicken-or-egg scenario.

The thing that makes me happiest about this project is the fact that if it gets built it can prove/show that building on the Portage Place pads is definitely feasible. And if it's successful at helping Winnipeg Square businesses... man... it could really do a lot for Portage Place.

I also think that this would make Artis want P&M open, if they don't already. You want to be able to sell a good, walkable, downtown lifestyle to people if you're asking suburban people to move downtown. Easier access to the Exchange is a huge benefit. This will also hopefully help Garry (and Fort), which I think has the most potential to become a "bar street" in all of downtown.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 5:52 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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New highrise rentals always start out that way.
You mean like Place Promenade behind Portage Place did?

Some things worth noting about this proposal:

1. How did it leak to the media before being announced?
2. Is there really a market for a 40 story all rental unit building in downtown?
3. Could the lack of new parking as part of this plan hinder its approvals?
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 5:57 PM
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3. Could the lack of new parking as part of this plan hinder its approvals?
It'd be interesting to know how many of the stalls in there currently are rented monthly, and how many are daily. Because I've never had a problem finding a spot there when going in for a few hours, so if they can just rent them to residential people, they should be fine. They have no obligation to provide any parking to casual/hourly patrons (that I know of).
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
I think often that's from a lack of maintenance. Kind of a chicken-or-egg scenario.

The thing that makes me happiest about this project is the fact that if it gets built it can prove/show that building on the Portage Place pads is definitely feasible. And if it's successful at helping Winnipeg Square businesses... man... it could really do a lot for Portage Place.

I also think that this would make Artis want P&M open, if they don't already. You want to be able to sell a good, walkable, downtown lifestyle to people if you're asking suburban people to move downtown. Easier access to the Exchange is a huge benefit. This will also hopefully help Garry (and Fort), which I think has the most potential to become a "bar street" in all of downtown.
Artis is the only stakeholder who doesn't not want the intersection open
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:11 PM
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^ I'm sure that many of the tenants at 360 Main (office tower) are monthly parkers and would be in an uproar over any loss of spots in the Winnipeg Square parkade.

Given that Skycity is in the pipeline, the WPS is in a big parking crunch and Winnipeg Square is about to get a whole lot busier, I wonder if the logical thing to do is for a parkade to go into the vacant lot bounded by Fort, Garry and Graham? There is enough room to do a nice two-storey commercial block at the base along Graham, with the rest as parking. No one loves a parkade, but if it helps the viability of those other developments it may be something to consider.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:14 PM
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Man I am pumped about this project. it could be the tipping point for our huge downtown and exchange areas. with the Forks being what it is and the extensive walkway system in place, I suspect a lot of winnipegers will, for the first time, start to consider downtown living.
I agree, it is happening. There are some who still have a negative sentiment but I think when they see what is happening and more successful projects and amenities are done, they will slowly be won over. I think there is a large young demographic that is onboard and the tough ones might be the older camp, who may be considering downsizing from their suburban home. Those people are always impressed by the urban living of Vancouver and Toronto but fail to see it slowly taking shape in Wpg. Some grocery stores and more amenities will be the tipping point.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:14 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is online now
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Isn't SkyCity building a 700 stall parkade, then building another parakde immediately north on the St. Regis site (which I have not heard anything about recently)? Methinks that is pletny-o-parking. I want another kick ass development to go on the Smith/Garry/Graham lot!

Edit: Oops, I meant Fort/Garry/Graham lot.

Last edited by bomberjet; Mar 29, 2016 at 6:47 PM. Reason: Edited
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:18 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
I think often that's from a lack of maintenance. Kind of a chicken-or-egg scenario.
I think the issue is Place Promenade was heavily built on speculation that it could create a market for higher end rental units in downtown Winnipeg. As it failed to catch hold they started expanded the type of tenant they were willing to accept rather than having units sit vacant. This is turn effectively killed any up market hopes they had and started their slide down market. As they slide down market they had less money to spend on maintenance which in turn kept pushing them further down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
I also think that this would make Artis want P&M open, if they don't already. You want to be able to sell a good, walkable, downtown lifestyle to people if you're asking suburban people to move downtown. Easier access to the Exchange is a huge benefit. This will also hopefully help Garry (and Fort), which I think has the most potential to become a "bar street" in all of downtown.
First, the location of the purposed Artis tower is south enough from Portage and Main that there would effectively be an easy east-west crossing of Main St effectively out the front door. This would leave the main driver being easier north-south crossings of Portage Ave. Having walked that intersection for years the difference between Main and Fort to cross Portage is minimal. Going from this new tower to Concert Hall? Cross Portage at Fort, go to Main on the north side of Portage and cross at McDermot or Bannatyne. Opening Portage and Main to pedestrians almost exclusives benefits the very few properties on Portage Ave east of Main St. A block or two in either direction you have lots of other points to cross.

Instead of just focusing the bars on one street I think you would need to leverage aspects of what is available on both Fort and Garry between Portage and Graham to make it work. Sort of sad that this strip has actually lost suitable properties over that last 15 years but considering they were on the dive bar end of the spectrum it might not be the biggest loss.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
It'd be interesting to know how many of the stalls in there currently are rented monthly, and how many are daily. Because I've never had a problem finding a spot there when going in for a few hours, so if they can just rent them to residential people, they should be fine. They have no obligation to provide any parking to casual/hourly patrons (that I know of).

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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Isn't SkyCity building a 700 stall parkade, then building another parakde immediately north on the St. Regis site (which I have not heard anything about recently)? Methinks that is pletny-o-parking. I want another kick ass development to go on the Smith/Garry/Graham lot!
My understanding is that approvals in Winnipeg are normally conditional on a traffic plan for the building which includes a specific minimum number of parking units. Based on the original design of the 360 Main St project it is likely the current parking structure has some additional space beyond what is required. It is also possible due to being a pad site in an existing development the normal rules won't be as strictly applied. That said, it is possible they will look at the average usage of the existing parking to determine what the available capacity is and map that against the projected requirements of the new development. I would also guess that the tenants of 360 Main St want there to be a certain availability of short term (aka daily) parking for their clients, such as the law office, accountants, etc. You don't just meet their demand with monthly parking.

In terms of what SkyCity is building for parking, I think it is being done to heavily meet the needs and approvals of that specific project and not what a potentially competing project will need. I would also guess that if SkyCity has any excess parking available WPS will move quickly to secure long term monthly contracts for their staff.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:33 PM
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^That's true Cory, and I am also unsure how the minimum parking requirements would be enforced here.

That's also true re: SkyCity. But they are also developing another large parkade at the St. Regis site. Which would do the same thing as placing a parkade on the Smith/Graham site.

In terms of having spaces available for clients, that is the nature of doing business in a downtown. Nice to have convenient parking for a client, but not a necessity. If a law firm wants to have a few spots, they're going to pay for them regardless of what parkade they're in.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:44 PM
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Parking prices are easily adjusted to equate demand to the supply available.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Isn't SkyCity building a 700 stall parkade, then building another parakde immediately north on the St. Regis site (which I have not heard anything about recently)? Methinks that is pletny-o-parking. I want another kick ass development to go on the Smith/Garry/Graham lot!
Forgot about the St. Regis parkade... fair enough, scrap the one I proposed and put up another 40 storey residential building instead!
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 6:51 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is online now
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Quite unbelievable how all these developments along Graham are coming together. Medical Arts, TNS, SkyCity, Winnipeg Square. Only one lot of empty land left, and the Police HQ tower to be dealt with.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:06 PM
TimeFadesAway TimeFadesAway is offline
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Originally Posted by WpG_GuY View Post
Artis is the only stakeholder who doesn't not want the intersection open
Has Artis actually expressed their opinion? They bought the tower in 2012. I know that the previous owners expressed opposition to opening, but I don't know if Artis actually came out against it since buying the property.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:12 PM
TimeFadesAway TimeFadesAway is offline
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I think (assuming that this all isn't just GSJ blowing smoke) that at their press conference, Artis should have a video where they show the heart of downtown moving from TNS back to P&M.
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:13 PM
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Quite unbelievable how all these developments along Graham are coming together. Medical Arts, TNS, SkyCity, Winnipeg Square. Only one lot of empty land left, and the Police HQ tower to be dealt with.
Yeah, it's crazy how Graham Avenue and not Portage or Main has become the focal point for all this development. It's almost as if walkability and access to transit matters!

What's really interesting is that Broadway is getting left behind in the dust with all this action... the RBCCC expansion and the two Assiniboine Ave residential towers are the only new projects that happened/are happening anywhere near Broadway. You'd think there would be more interest in that area...
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:24 PM
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Broadway needs less attention, although it could use a makeover. Again though, with such a large downtown, there are numerous patches which need redevelopment. One of the worst views imo is looking down Main Street from Broadway, especially from the Fort Garry. South Main needs a lot of help.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:37 PM
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Broadway needs less attention, although it could use a makeover. Again though, with such a large downtown, there are numerous patches which need redevelopment.
That's partly my point though, you'd think people and businesses would naturally gravitate to Broadway given that it is an attractive setting. It's a pleasant avenue to stroll down, and the greenery makes it very pretty compared to most downtown streets. A midrise 8-storey condo or 6 storey office building would seem like a no-brainer, but for whatever reason nothing ever gets built. As far as I can recall there has been one new building built on the downtown stretch of Broadway in the last 20 years, just Cambrian Credit Union's office.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:47 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is online now
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Artis REIT will unveil its plans for Winnipeg Square/360 Main St. on Thursday, April 7. That'd be the new tower & facade reno.

https://twitter.com/bkives/status/714901203935571970

Yay, only 1.5 weeks to wait!

Last edited by bomberjet; Mar 29, 2016 at 8:05 PM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2016, 7:52 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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That's also true re: SkyCity. But they are also developing another large parkade at the St. Regis site. Which would do the same thing as placing a parkade on the Smith/Graham site.
That is making a pretty big assumption that the St Regis parkade isn't needed to fully meet the parking needs of SkyCity itself. Could be my pessimism but it has long been a rule in Winnipeg that a business doesn't spend money unless there is a specific need it is trying to meet. Following that rule, having the St Regis parkade constructed to meet SkyCity requirements makes sense, having it built purely on speculation does not.

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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Yeah, it's crazy how Graham Avenue and not Portage or Main has become the focal point for all this development. It's almost as if walkability and access to transit matters!

What's really interesting is that Broadway is getting left behind in the dust with all this action... the RBCCC expansion and the two Assiniboine Ave residential towers are the only new projects that happened/are happening anywhere near Broadway. You'd think there would be more interest in that area...
You are heavily misreading the factors in why Graham is being developed over Portage or Main. Portage Ave from Main to Colony is almost all 4+ stories of occupied buildings. Graham over that same stretch has a number of significant surface lots. Even on Main St, the west side which has decent lot size unlike the tightly packed in east side, mostly has existing buildings. Granted Main St has some buildings that are heavily underused it still costs money to tear something down. It all comes down to opportunity costs first.

From memory Broadway has similar issues, sure there is one surface lot next to the Union Center but that is more securely held than the "never to be developed" lot behind WCB. The only other real opportunity short of demoing an existing building is the surface lot next to the Subway.

Just because you don't see projects on Portage, Main or Broadway does not mean there is not interest in those streets it just means the opportunities are not currently there. No developer is going to push their land acquisition costs through the roof just to locate one block north and be on Portage Ave.
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