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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 1:18 PM
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Richmond was too weak on this so the province had to step in. I'm just surprised that the NDP solution wasn't some kind of tax.
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 2:41 PM
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Richmond was too weak on this so the province had to step in. I'm just surprised that the NDP solution wasn't some kind of tax.
Strangely enough the BC Liberals didn’t include agricultural land in the Foreign Buyers Tax and the NDP hasn’t changed that. Dumb.
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  #43  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 6:46 PM
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Yeah, call us when someone’s BMW threaten food security.
Oh yeah, Metro Vancouver will definitely avoid Venezuelan-style food shortages thanks to this!
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  #44  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 6:47 PM
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Oh yeah, Metro Vancouver will definitely avoid Venezuelan-style food shortages thanks to this!
Because smaller houses will lead to people using agricultural land for farming (that was sarcasm)


PS: I notice that we tend to leave the megachurches on Richmond farmland alone aka the massive Buddhist Temple, Mosque, and who knows what else is over there?
Are we going to limit these too or would this be too politically dangerous?

Last edited by misher; Aug 21, 2018 at 7:10 PM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Because smaller houses will lead to people using agricultural land for farming (that was sarcasm)


PS: I notice that we tend to leave the megachurches on Richmond farmland alone aka the massive Buddhist Temple, Mosque, and who knows what else is over there?
Are we going to limit these too or would this be too politically dangerous?
The multitude of assembly centres/halls of seemingly every religious sect and denomination are zoned ASY (#5 rd and Blundell Rd) or ZIS7 for the most part, not on AG1 land .
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  #46  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Strangely enough the BC Liberals didn’t include agricultural land in the Foreign Buyers Tax and the NDP hasn’t changed that. Dumb.
I'm sure the majority of farm land is within corps and the determination of residency of corps is not necessarily the same as individuals. You may easily have a foreign owned company that has a residency of Canada.

Besides, I don't think you have thought out the consequences of needlessly taxing foreigners from investing in farming (or any other business that needs land)
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  #47  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 9:33 PM
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The multitude of assembly centres/halls of seemingly every religious sect and denomination are zoned ASY (#5 rd and Blundell Rd) or ZIS7 for the most part, not on AG1 land .
Ah sorry I should have been more specific. I meant they are building massive structures on farmland that can be used as farmland, not that its actually zoned for farmland. For instance, if you rezone a farm for industrial, its still farmland.
If you look at Canada as a whole we tend to build a lot of our residential on the best farmland.
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 10:26 PM
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Ah sorry I should have been more specific. I meant they are building massive structures on farmland that can be used as farmland, not that its actually zoned for farmland. For instance, if you rezone a farm for industrial, its still farmland.
If you look at Canada as a whole we tend to build a lot of our residential on the best farmland.
But are we not specifically talking about the ALR? I personally am not familiar with the changing of use in regards to ALR land, and why the ALR body would approve alternative uses other than a house and agricultural uses and after its approval by that body why Richmond would approve of other uses within its area plan and zoning. I understand a site's present use vs zoned us, but I purely look at zoned use as a real determining and more legally binding factor. District schedules determine use, coverage, accessory buildings etc. If it's zoned RS-1 for instance and is occupied by a farm the farm is irrelevant; however, when a lot is zoned AG1 and permits a maximum home square footage, permeable land percentage and size of accessary buildings... it limits "mansion" homes on AG1 land simply by typical zoning restrictions. If you allow a primary residence to X square feet, it really determines what it will be and increasing its size can have a positive increase in property value. So then, what is the land for? Large estates or farmland?

I am unaware of Richmond's comings and goings specifically to these sites, but I can't imagine many rezonings within the ALR are very recent? But the process is clear.
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  #49  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
But are we not specifically talking about the ALR? I personally am not familiar with the changing of use in regards to ALR land, and why the ALR body would approve alternative uses other than a house and agricultural uses and after its approval by that body why Richmond would approve of other uses within its area plan and zoning. I understand a site's present use vs zoned us, but I purely look at zoned use as a real determining and more legally binding factor. District schedules determine use, coverage, accessory buildings etc. If it's zoned RS-1 for instance and is occupied by a farm the farm is irrelevant; however, when a lot is zoned AG1 and permits a maximum home square footage, permeable land percentage and size of accessary buildings... it limits "mansion" homes on AG1 land simply by typical zoning restrictions. If you allow a primary residence to X square feet, it really determines what it will be and increasing its size can have a positive increase in property value. So then, what is the land for? Large estates or farmland?

I am unaware of Richmond's comings and goings specifically to these sites, but I can't imagine many rezonings within the ALR are very recent? But the process is clear.
They definitely aren't recent, but its hard to argue against mega mansions when there are brand new sparkling megachurches next door.

Anyway, I support large houses on agricultural land because farms generally do have large houses as do wineries if you look at inland BC you will see this. I assume this is to house a lot of the workers, offices, produce, tools, etc.

In addition, usually multiple families will live in one house.

You can't allow a few people who have built mansions and haven't farmed the land to spoil it for the rest. Instead require people to farm the land so even if there's a huge house the land is doing what it was meant to do.

If you look at this google map of one house on agricultural land you will see that they have a giant house and what appears to be a 2nd house in the back. But they also have a ton of greenhouses and the land is clearly being maximized.
https://www.google.ca/maps/search/ri.../data=!3m1!1e3
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  #50  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 12:01 AM
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Churches are zoned for churches, houses in question are on AG1 land.

It's my understanding that the issues and "fixes" have been over the square footage of the primary residence in the AG1 zoned land. In the zoning itself it states that secondary structures must prove they are occupied and in use by workers. If folk's concerns are about workers units, that isn't about primary residence square footage. Maintaining primary residence square footage or not increasing it can have large affects on its use from agriculture to estate.

Zoning allows for primary residence uses and sizes and secondary and accessory structures and greenhouses and farm-related structures. Zoning isn't perfect but it's aim here is to preserve the use of AG1 in ALR areas to be used as farming in its many permitted uses in the zone and not (for a City's POV) for allow the SF home aspect to be used as estate mansions that escalate land prices and throw the land uses they're intended to be used as... out of wack.

Many tools in the tool box. Nothing in City planning is clean, efficient, or easy.
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  #51  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 12:34 AM
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Nobody needs a BMW either, should the Province legislate away your right to own yours?
Not BMW's but SSPers have pushed to ban kids from owning Lambos and other exotic cars, increase luxury tax for cars, second homes, etc... basically anything associated with Chinese conspicuous consumption to the chagrin of the old-timers.

As for farmland, massive homes have always been around, it's only when the Chinese started doing it en masse that, well... see above
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  #52  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 3:17 AM
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Not BMW's but SSPers have pushed to ban kids from owning Lambos and other exotic cars, increase luxury tax for cars, second homes, etc... basically anything associated with Chinese conspicuous consumption to the chagrin of the old-timers.

As for farmland, massive homes have always been around, it's only when the Chinese started doing it en masse that, well... see above
I wonder why all these organized crime (money-laundering and the like) and city bylaw violations are almost exclusively Chinese? And yet a realtor will pull something out of their ass saying that these ridiculous house prices are not cause by foreign investors (most of whom are Mainland Chinese).

Edit: We should probably tone down with the ethnic conflicts happening in this thread.

Last edited by Firebrand; Aug 22, 2018 at 4:05 AM.
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  #53  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 5:57 AM
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I wonder why all these organized crime (money-laundering and the like) and city bylaw violations are almost exclusively Chinese? And yet a realtor will pull something out of their ass saying that these ridiculous house prices are not cause by foreign investors (most of whom are Mainland Chinese).

Edit: We should probably tone down with the ethnic conflicts happening in this thread.
Seriously what’s with the racist focus on chinese?
Look at East richmond, Abbotsford, surrey, etc, it’s all owned by Indians. Hell half the developers and a lot of the construction workers are indian. Most of the farmland and farmland mansions are indian. They are out there driving Ferrari’s and lambos too. Just cause they vote NDP and Chinese voted liberal they get ignored. Notice that the government won’t bring in Uber as they will lose the indian vote as Indians own all the taxis. I would not be surprised if Indians had more money in real estate here than Chinese.

Same goes for middle eastern people, there in west van with mega mansions and luxury cars.

There’s been a huge racist focus on chinese when they only make up a small part of wealthy immigrants. Hell most of the chinese here hate the new chinese immigrants that show off their wealth. Many of the Chinese in vancouver are actually British who immigranted from Hong Kong before China tookover. I don’t blame all white people for Paris Hilton so don’t blame all chinese for that dumbass kid with the N sticker on their lambo.

The racism here makes me sick. Hell we’ve been buying vacation real estate or showing off our wealth in poor nations where people are starving like Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Colombia, etc but the minute we’re given the same treatment as we give others it’s now wrong? We’re a city of hypocrites.

Most of the Chinese here worked 2x harder than your ancestors for what they have despite attempts to discriminate against them bad laws set in place to bar them from owing land.

Quote:
But by 1884, Roy continued, the arrival of thousands of Chinese workers building the Canadian Pacific Railway led to a growing anti-Chinese sentiment among the white ruling class. In turn, the provincial government enacted legislation denying Chinese people the right to buy, lease, or preempt Crown lands.

“White people could acquire land from the government at little or no cost,” Roy said. “Chinese people could not acquire land directly from the government…However, they could buy land from private owners.”

A two-tier system was set in law, and those rules remained in effect until after the Second World War.

“The Chinese were discriminated at every turn,” Roy concluded.
https://www.straight.com/news/734491...er-real-estate

So if the Chinese here are doing better than you all I can say is your family needs to get off its fat lazy ass. History has given white people so many advantages but all they do is bitch instead of work. If you look on the street almost all the homeless are not chinese or indian because foreign cultures emphasize work and saving while Canadian culture is all about drugs, parties, constant vacations, and living life. Maybe instead of taking those vacations you should have saved up the down payment for a home. Maybe your parents should have bought a home when it was $100,000 like most people. (PS I’m not chinese, I was born here and I’m disgusted with how many people with no money smoke weed and bitch instead of working. You never see white people work more than 8 hours or cash in their vacation)

I’ll probably edit this tmr to make it less inflammatory. But for now I’m just going to emphasize my disgust with my own race and citizenship. We’ve become a fat lazy nation with high obesity and low work ethic. There’s a reason most of science and Business at ubc/SFU is 99% chinese or indian. And there’s a reason why no job programs like psych are filled with white people. White people have had so many advantages and should be conquering the world not whining about how we can’t compete with foreigners.

Last edited by misher; Aug 22, 2018 at 6:18 AM.
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  #54  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 8:25 AM
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So if the Chinese here are doing better than you all I can say is your family needs to get off its fat lazy ass. History has given white people so many advantages but all they do is bitch instead of work. If you look on the street almost all the homeless are not chinese or indian because foreign cultures emphasize work and saving while Canadian culture is all about drugs, parties, constant vacations, and living life. Maybe instead of taking those vacations you should have saved up the down payment for a home. Maybe your parents should have bought a home when it was $100,000 like most people. (PS I’m not chinese, I was born here and I’m disgusted with how many people with no money smoke weed and bitch instead of working. You never see white people work more than 8 hours or cash in their vacation)
My mom is a single parent with two jobs working her ass off just to pay for basic necessities, like the rent, the car insurance, gas, food, and so on. And here you are poisoning the well trying to make me feel bad.

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Most of the Chinese here worked 2x harder than your ancestors for what they have despite attempts to discriminate against them bad laws set in place to bar them from owing land.
This is just insulting. They are rich because they are taking advantages of the real estate having extremely lax regulations. They (specifically Mainlanders with no Canadian citizenship or PR) are making huge cash illegally with little work (flipping property) while taxpayers here are forced to take the brunt of the extreme house prices. And you are trying to add sympathy to the people who are responsible for the housing crisis. This is preposterous.
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  #55  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Seriously what’s with the racist focus on chinese?
Look at East richmond, Abbotsford, surrey, etc, it’s all owned by Indians. Hell half the developers and a lot of the construction workers are indian. Most of the farmland and farmland mansions are indian. They are out there driving Ferrari’s and lambos too. Just cause they vote NDP and Chinese voted liberal they get ignored. Notice that the government won’t bring in Uber as they will lose the indian vote as Indians own all the taxis. I would not be surprised if Indians had more money in real estate here than Chinese.

Same goes for middle eastern people, there in west van with mega mansions and luxury cars.

There’s been a huge racist focus on chinese when they only make up a small part of wealthy immigrants. Hell most of the chinese here hate the new chinese immigrants that show off their wealth. Many of the Chinese in vancouver are actually British who immigranted from Hong Kong before China tookover. I don’t blame all white people for Paris Hilton so don’t blame all chinese for that dumbass kid with the N sticker on their lambo.

The racism here makes me sick. Hell we’ve been buying vacation real estate or showing off our wealth in poor nations where people are starving like Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Colombia, etc but the minute we’re given the same treatment as we give others it’s now wrong? We’re a city of hypocrites.

Most of the Chinese here worked 2x harder than your ancestors for what they have despite attempts to discriminate against them bad laws set in place to bar them from owing land.


https://www.straight.com/news/734491...er-real-estate

So if the Chinese here are doing better than you all I can say is your family needs to get off its fat lazy ass. History has given white people so many advantages but all they do is bitch instead of work. If you look on the street almost all the homeless are not chinese or indian because foreign cultures emphasize work and saving while Canadian culture is all about drugs, parties, constant vacations, and living life. Maybe instead of taking those vacations you should have saved up the down payment for a home. Maybe your parents should have bought a home when it was $100,000 like most people. (PS I’m not chinese, I was born here and I’m disgusted with how many people with no money smoke weed and bitch instead of working. You never see white people work more than 8 hours or cash in their vacation)

I’ll probably edit this tmr to make it less inflammatory. But for now I’m just going to emphasize my disgust with my own race and citizenship. We’ve become a fat lazy nation with high obesity and low work ethic. There’s a reason most of science and Business at ubc/SFU is 99% chinese or indian. And there’s a reason why no job programs like psych are filled with white people. White people have had so many advantages and should be conquering the world not whining about how we can’t compete with foreigners.

Stop gaslighting us. Now you can't edit my quote.
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  #56  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 9:51 AM
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Well that's certainly a constructive and tolerant point of view.

Personally I'm tired of all the leftist socialist hippie Swanson loving enviro-nuts that dominate the Lower Mainland airspace, that strut around town with dual incomes well exceeding 100k toting anti-development and thinly veiled nativist sentiments, driving 15k civics yet toting $3000 bikes wearing $900 Goretex jackets and acting as if they were some morally superior arbiter of society, hellbent on returning Vancouver to the shitty culturally homogeneous backwater unknown before immigrants came and gave the city some character and provenance to the rest of the world. These people either own their own SFH in Kitsilano or are basement unit renters in Vancouver East, they're both just as bitter and triggered by diversity and economic wealth. "Progressives" my ass.

Also, I'm well aware they are not all white as demonstrated by the protestors showing up at every Chinatown proposal.


Also I think this is an excellent move by the Provincial government. It clearly didn't necessitate the provocative division evidenced by the thought processes in this thread.
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  #57  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 3:15 PM
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My mom is a single parent with two jobs working her ass off just to pay for basic necessities, like the rent, the car insurance, gas, food, and so on. And here you are poisoning the well trying to make me feel bad.



This is just insulting. They are rich because they are taking advantages of the real estate having extremely lax regulations. They (specifically Mainlanders with no Canadian citizenship or PR) are making huge cash illegally with little work (flipping property) while taxpayers here are forced to take the brunt of the extreme house prices. And you are trying to add sympathy to the people who are responsible for the housing crisis. This is preposterous.
12 hour 6 days a week work shifts are common in many parts of the world including China. Its similar in India. Immigrants are taking over because they work really really hard. If you look at highschools across the province its non-whites who score top marks.

And you just said flipping property is illegal ������ so when people flip stocks it’s legal? When all the white people sold their places in The West Side it was legal? (Chinese didn’t own anything there originally). But when a Chinese person does it it’s illegal? Billions of the provincial budget come from property transfer taxes and billions more are created in jobs from property. Property transfers were supposed to pay for many of the NDP’s social programs. Because there Chinese not white it’s illegal because there upsetting their better’s? The racism coming off you is insane.

Last edited by misher; Aug 22, 2018 at 6:56 PM.
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  #58  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 3:33 PM
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So it’s the government/Chinese people’s fault that your mom had kids while she’s broke and she choose a husband that was a deadbeat ? (Sorry if he died instead but in this assumption let’s assume he left). Take some responsibility for yourself and your decisions. Plus people always say two+jobs but it’s the total hours she works that counts. Hell I had 4+ jobs at one time. 12 hour 6 days a week work shifts are common in many parts of the world including China.

And you just said flipping property is illegal ������ so when people flip stocks it’s legal? When all the white people sold their places in The West Side it was legal? (Chinese didn’t own anything there originally). But when a Chinese person does it it’s illegal? Billions of the provincial budget come from property transfer taxes and billions more are created in jobs from property. Property transfers were supposed to pay for many of the NDP’s social programs. Because there Chinese not white it’s illegal because there upsetting their better’s? The racism coming off you is insane. Even the Nazis didn’t hate asians the way you do (due to their alliance with Japan)
Wow, what a wonderful life style!

Here in Japan there is actually an active campaign to change that working style after many recent high profile cases of employees literally working themselves to death. Nice eh??

Seriously, this thread is fucked.

It highlights everything I hate about modern politics.

First there were the original comments that did have racist undertones that I also did not agree with, but then comes this nonsense above.

Like seriously, attacking someones family like that sure does not help your argument in trying to be the "enlightened" one.

Also good job at muddying the debate. I can tell you right now that many of my Vancouver born Asian friends are just as angry at and negatively affected by the influx of Mainland Chinese laundering / realty speculation as my non Asian friends. (Also I'm aware that there are other factors contributing to Vancouver's housing price crisis, but this is among the big ones. And no, its not because they are Chinese, if it were Americans or Russians or any other nation doing so in the same unmanageable volume, the story would be no different).

Your post is bizarre because it has both an SJW approach in trying to use guilt and irrelevant past issues to distract from the current issue, but you also throw in a classic hard right wing / Republican style mantra "if you work yourself to death you will also be successful!"

I know this is off topic from the original conversation, but so are all the latest responses.

Also LOL at your last line.
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  #59  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 6:08 PM
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Wow, what a wonderful life style!

Here in Japan there is actually an active campaign to change that working style after many recent high profile cases of employees literally working themselves to death. Nice eh??

Seriously, this thread is fucked.

It highlights everything I hate about modern politics.

First there were the original comments that did have racist undertones that I also did not agree with, but then comes this nonsense above.

Like seriously, attacking someones family like that sure does not help your argument in trying to be the "enlightened" one.

Also good job at muddying the debate. I can tell you right now that many of my Vancouver born Asian friends are just as angry at and negatively affected by the influx of Mainland Chinese laundering / realty speculation as my non Asian friends. (Also I'm aware that there are other factors contributing to Vancouver's housing price crisis, but this is among the big ones. And no, its not because they are Chinese, if it were Americans or Russians or any other nation doing so in the same unmanageable volume, the story would be no different).

Your post is bizarre because it has both an SJW approach in trying to use guilt and irrelevant past issues to distract from the current issue, but you also throw in a classic hard right wing / Republican style mantra "if you work yourself to death you will also be successful!"

I know this is off topic from the original conversation, but so are all the latest responses.

Also LOL at your last line.
True I got wayyy off topic I was really pissed off. Thanks for calling me out on it. Going to edit my posts. I just hate how people are targeting Chinese as the cause of housing prices instead of looking at the actual statistics, math, and research. If you look at Toronto as a comparable then our housing prices are very similar. Housing prices are high because Vancouver has become a major business center for Western Canada matching Toronto in the east. If you look at this article you'll see that Vancouver Condo's are 28% more than Toronto, but we also charge about double in development costs than Toronto so this works out to a 5-15% price difference http://www.chpc.biz/compare-toronto--vancouver.html Chinese, Indians or Persians buying luxury real estate has very little effect on the low-end condo market, it just makes luxury property sky-high.


Even if housing prices went down 20% the people complaining would still not be able to afford them. Condo prices appear to be rising this year even as luxury housing falls in value.

Last edited by misher; Aug 22, 2018 at 6:26 PM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Wow, what a wonderful life style!

Here in Japan there is actually an active campaign to change that working style after many recent high profile cases of employees literally working themselves to death. Nice eh??

Seriously, this thread is fucked.

It highlights everything I hate about modern politics.

First there were the original comments that did have racist undertones that I also did not agree with, but then comes this nonsense above.

Like seriously, attacking someones family like that sure does not help your argument in trying to be the "enlightened" one.

Also good job at muddying the debate. I can tell you right now that many of my Vancouver born Asian friends are just as angry at and negatively affected by the influx of Mainland Chinese laundering / realty speculation as my non Asian friends. (Also I'm aware that there are other factors contributing to Vancouver's housing price crisis, but this is among the big ones. And no, its not because they are Chinese, if it were Americans or Russians or any other nation doing so in the same unmanageable volume, the story would be no different).

Your post is bizarre because it has both an SJW approach in trying to use guilt and irrelevant past issues to distract from the current issue, but you also throw in a classic hard right wing / Republican style mantra "if you work yourself to death you will also be successful!"

I know this is off topic from the original conversation, but so are all the latest responses.

Also LOL at your last line.
Indeed.

This is not about race, it's about municipal councils' refusal to act and protect the Agricultural Land Reserve and the provincial government having to step in to do so. That land was set aside for agricultural use, not as building sites for megamansions. Nobody is stopping these people from building 10,000 sq/ft homes in Shaughnessy, or buying up two lots in Richmond and consolidating them, they just wanted the cheap building site the agricultural designation provided. For the record I agree with misher that churches etc are the same kind of threat, even though they are zoned differently as GenWhy pointed out. It's clear those demoninations chose that land becuase it gave them a cheap, large building site.

Last edited by whatnext; Aug 22, 2018 at 6:32 PM.
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