Solving the Metro Vancouver Industrial Land Shortage?

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Is there any news about the future of the Shellburn Oil Refinery area?

Ideally, it'd be moved back to use for some other industrial purpose, however, the area is fairly hilly terrain. If it's still suitable, though, that's a pretty huge chunk of potential industrial land supply freed up.

If anything the site will go the route of IOCO, sold for residential redevelopment.

It's somewhat of an industrial deadspace, a relic of the past.

I know Petro-Can used to have a refinery somewhere (Poco?), where's the site and what is it today?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

If anything the site will go the route of IOCO, sold for residential redevelopment.

It's somewhat of an industrial deadspace, a relic of the past.

I know Petro-Can used to have a refinery somewhere (Poco?), where's the site and what is it today?

I guess the area is too steep for pretty much any other industrial uses?



Closed.

https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/new...w-oil-refinery

I can't find the location, though, I know it's in PoCo, but not where, exactly.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I guess the area is too steep for pretty much any other industrial uses?



Closed.

https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/new...w-oil-refinery

I can't find the location, though, I know it's in PoCo, but not where, exactly.

Are you sure about that I think it's Port Moody.

"In April 1993, the Shell refinery in Burnaby and the Petro-Canada refinery in Port Moody, B.C. were shutdown and converted to refined petroleum product terminals, which are capable of receiving motor gasoline and diesel fuel."

http://publications.gc.ca/collection...-1-1994-3E.pdf

Sounds like it's the Petro Can/Suncor "Burrard Terminal"

The facility was originally built in Burnaby as a fuel products terminal in 1920. In 1957, the facility was expanded into a fully integrated refinery. The expansion included installation of refinery operating units in the Port Moody municipality. The facility was converted back to a product distribution terminal in 1993.

http://www.portmoody.ca/index.aspx?page=837

[Tetsuo]

^^^^ Oh right the massive Suncor terminal on Glenayre, which is bigger than IOCO and ShellBourne, another weird industrial spot, surrounded by parkland and SFH.

Same deal, if it were to ever close/cease operations, we wouldn't see more industrial, but rather residential...

[casper]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

^^^^ Oh right the massive Suncor terminal on Glenayre, which is bigger than IOCO and ShellBourne, another weird industrial spot, surrounded by parkland and SFH.

Same deal, if it were to ever close/cease operations, we wouldn't see more industrial, but rather residential...

I don't see the issue with keeping it industrial. Yes, it has an entrance off Glenayre but it also has an entrance off the 7A and it has its own marine terminal where ships can be loaded/unloaded.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by casper

I don't see the issue with keeping it industrial. Yes, it has an entrance off Glenayre but it also has an entrance off the 7A and it has its own marine terminal where ships can be loaded/unloaded.

About half of it seems too steep for other industrial uses, so at least that section would become parkland or industrial.

[SpongeG]

went to the petro can site once for an open house in the early 90's. I don't remember much about it though.

[casper]

Originally Posted by fredinno

About half of it seems too steep for other industrial uses, so at least that section would become parkland or industrial.

A good half the site is housing tank farms. Certain with the correct equipment the rest of the site could be made suitable.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by casper

A good half the site is housing tank farms. Certain with the correct equipment the rest of the site could be made suitable.

It could, but probably won't due to economic and environmental reasons. Though, that half is a decent chunk. Larger than the Kwikiliem First Nations industrial park being constructed, which is also surrounded by parkland and residential.

If there was some sort of industrial land reserve, no one would be talking about this sort of thing.

[fredinno]

Old article, but interesting: https://www.richmond-news.com/news/c...arms-1.1798912

The City of Richmond is asking the federal government to force Port Metro Vancouver to sell Gilmore Farms so it can be farmed in perpetuity.

The port (PMV) has yet to determine what to do with the 230-acre east Richmond lot situated in the Agricultural Land Reserve, however, the land falls under a “special study area,” according to its land-use plan.

The city is upset the port may develop the farm 10-plus years into the future.

According to the port, its current inventory of industrial land is sufficient to meet demand for the next 10 years. To meet long-term needs the port has told the city it requires 2,300 acres across Metro Vancouver.
Because the port is a quasi-federal agency, it may be able to supersede the authority of the provincial Agricultural Land Commission and thus develop farmland, unless otherwise challenged in court.

“All indications are that PMV will continue to purchase more agricultural land in the City and throughout the Metro Vancouver region for their future expansion,” wrote Amarjeet Rattan, Richmond’s director of intergovernmental relations, in a report to council (click here).

Looks like the Port of Vancouver has decided to take matters into its own hands by superseding provincial and municipal authority. I guess that's what happens when its warnings to protect industrial lands go on deaf ears.

I'm guessing it's Richmond because Port owns a ton of unused port lands and inland industrial lands in the area. Was it always owned by the Port (technically it's predecessor organizations?)

Oh yeah, and Richmond City Council can go p-off. How long did they let the ALR lands in Richmond be subdivided into country mansions for the rich without barely a peep? And NOW you care because someone else is superseding your authority?

This map shows the area that Port bought out: https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-con...rea-7-2018.pdf

[Migrant_Coconut]

Seems to have slipped the net. First large-scale vertical farm in Canada.

[officedweller]

Will it be profitable?
The greenhouse complex on the parkade on Pender (?) went bankrupt.
It only produced high end micro greens for restaurants.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I got no idea what the business model for Pender was like, but it probably wasn't a good one - Alterrus had apparently gone through several failed ventures and a name change before starting the greenhouse.

This one belongs to the U of T, so I suspect that it's geared toward education and R&D for actual for-profit farms.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Seems to have slipped the net. First large-scale vertical farm in Canada.

This isn't industrial...

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by fredinno

This isn't industrial...

It is industrialized production of crops. Fits the bill for me.

Also relevant since intensified agriculture could theoretically free up ALR land for industrial uses.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I got no idea what the business model for Pender was like, but it probably wasn't a good one - Alterrus had apparently gone through several failed ventures and a name change before starting the greenhouse.

This one belongs to the U of T, so I suspect that it's geared toward education and R&D for actual for-profit farms.

University venture, highly doubt it's anywhere near a profit.

[SpongeG]

Industrial land squeeze pushes Metro Vancouver to North America's lowest vacancy rate

Razor-thin industrial vacancy in the region pushes up land values, lease rates and makes business a tougher prospect.

DERRICK PENNER | Vancouver Sun | Updated: May 8, 2019


The Ironworks building, an example of multi-level industrial space instead of flat warehouses as Metro Vancouver surpasses Toronto to have the lowest industrial vacancy rate in Canada, putting a severe squeeze on the city for future development, in Vancouver, BC., May 8, 2019. NICK PROCAYLO / PNG

For Metro Vancouver, winning the race to the lowest industrial-land vacancy rate in North America isn’t an enviable accolade, instead it’s pushing the region closer to crisis mode.

Metro has surpassed Toronto, with an industrial vacancy rate of 1.2 per cent versus 1.5 per cent, according to a new report from Avison Young, which pushes up land values and lease rates in addition to making it incredibly difficult for businesses that want to land here or expand.

“It’s not good for local business, that’s for sure,” said Russ Bougie, an Avison Young principal in its industrial department. “It does not help support growth.”

Inside Vancouver itself, the soaring industrial property values that come with shrinking vacancies are creating an affordability crisis for businesses, said Pietra Basilij, manager of industrial initiatives for the Vancouver Economic Commission (VEC).

“It’s the last two or three years that we’ve really seen that big shift,” Basilij said, where industrial property values have shot up 50 per cent per year on average, particularly in central districts such as Mount Pleasant and the False Creek Flats.

And with many businesses there in the middle of three- or five-year leases, Basilij said the VEC is still bracing for the full impact of soaring land values, lease rates and corresponding taxes.

Commercial realtor CBRE Group Inc. reported last August that Vancouver lease rates were up 29 per cent, year-over-year, compared with a three-per-cent increase globally.

...

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...t-vacancy-rate

[rofina]

At the risk of sounding ironic, posting this on a RE board - its so tiring to constantly hear about low vacancies, shortage of land, shortage of space, shortage of living accommodation in the Metro.

Something is broken. How we deliver buildings to market is broken, or the process is broken, or whatever is broken.

This is just accepted and normal here and its strange.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by rofina

At the risk of sounding ironic, posting this on a RE board - its so tiring to constantly hear about low vacancies, shortage of land, shortage of space, shortage of living accommodation in the Metro.

Something is broken. How we deliver buildings to market is broken, or the process is broken, or whatever is broken.

This is just accepted and normal here and its strange.

It's mostly a regulatory and planning problem. The urban containment boundary has limited sprawl, but the demand and pressure for land for other uses due to NIMBYism and regulations on other lands has crowded out industrial, which can no longer sprawl out.

There's not much that can be done from an immediate standpoint, and everyone pretty much knows the general problems. So people end up accepting it, while supporting better density in general.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Perhaps that will result in added pressure to connect the Sunshine Coast to the Mainland via rail and highway?

Would be nice.

There is an insane ammount of nimbyism over here.Port Mellon is also crazy under developed and could handle alot of warehouse space.