How far will the Atlanta suburban sprawl spread?

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

honestly, it will spread out as far as people are willing to drive. so how far is that? Detroit arguably wrote the playbook on auto oriented land use and some folks don't bat an eye at 50 mile commutes. according to the Atlanta journal-constitution, Atlanta already has the longest average commute distances in the whole country, 12.8 miles. which sounds pretty reasonable. I bet lots of people are driving more like 40 miles.

And Atlanta isn't a pricey metropolitan region! It's pretty common for 30-60 mile commutes to expensive coastal CA cities. That's why we have a fast growing IE, it's one of the last relatively affordable places to buy a SFH, within commuting distance to LA/OC/SD.

Take a look at the Bay, incredible commute times to SF and the valley from ex-urban sprawl-villes and I'm sure that CAHSR will just open up the Central Valley to sprawl. Buy a cheap house near a station and suddenly you're a SF suburb with easy access to the city.

[Reverberation]

Originally Posted by Crawford

North, easily. North is the favored, affluent quarter.

Ceteris paribus, the most valuable land is always upstream and upwind from any major city.

[M II A II R II K]

And it will be all interconnected with high speed rail and multiple commuter railways so you can travel anywhere with in Charlanta in less than an hour.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Paul would be proud.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

Charlanta will become a real thing for sure. The south will have to create more reservoirs/dams and related infrastructure to accommodate the explosive growth.

Why are the big cities in GA, SC, NC inland instead of on the coast?

[jayden]

Originally Posted by Crawford

North, easily. North is the favored, affluent quarter.

Which makes more sense, since the majority of the metro population, Corporate companies, and other economic generators are located in the North Metro.

If you're not in the North Metro, the only thing you might have going for you is proximity to the airport.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Why are the big cities in GA, SC, NC inland instead of on the coast?

see this thread for some answers: Why aren't Charleston & Savannah the Boston & Philly of the south?

[jayden]

Also, this Charlanta thing...isn't serious right?

Or, I'm assuming this would be seen as the megalopolis that is the 95 corridor (Boston/NYC/Philly/DC). The 85 corridor?

Although Charlotte has a larger population in its city center, Atlanta's metro is nearly triple that of Charlotte's. I could see Greenville, and other cities in between the two within South Carolina combining with the Charlotte CSA, but Atlanta in more ways than one will always be its own entity.

[mhays]

What a horrifying thread.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by jayden

Also, this Charlanta thing...isn't serious right?

Or, I'm assuming this would be seen as the megalopolis that is the 95 corridor (Boston/NYC/Philly/DC). The 85 corridor?

No, it's serious. Just like the Front Range in CO, or the Arizona Sun Corridor, or Cascadia in PacNW. The US will have numerous megalopolis regions that cross state lines that people will identify with. Similar to today's "Southern California" or "South Florida" identifiers.

Edit: To our RE investors out there, as Charlanta booms into a megalopolis, the quaint coastal cities of Savannah and Charleston will become pricey destinations for second homes, getaway weekend escapes, yet limited in growth due to the low-land, meandering river - swampy conditions.

[jayden]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

No, it's serious. Just like the Front Range in CO, or the Arizona Sun Corridor, or Cascadia in PacNW. The US will have numerous megalopolis regions that cross state lines that people will identify with. Similar to today's "Southern California" or "South Florida" identifiers.

I'm more so referring to the name, "Charlanta" which sounds pathetic btw. More people around the world can identify Atlanta before they can Charlotte so that name would be a huge wtf(?) moment.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by jayden

I'm more so referring to the name, "Charlanta" which sounds pathetic btw. More people around the world can identify Atlanta before they can Charlotte so that name would be a huge wtf(?) moment.

What would you suggest instead? Atlantotte?

[destroycreate]

If only the mentality of the south wasn't so anti-urban...I mean, flying over Atlanta it is astounding how civic leaders could allow such out of control, wasteful growth. It's a shame, especially while the rest of the country densifies and strives to become more walkable in its urban centers. Sprawl is so 2003.

[M II A II R II K]

It's about freedom to occupy and drive across as much land as possible.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

If only the mentality of the south wasn't so anti-urban...I mean, flying over Atlanta it is astounding how civic leaders could allow such out of control, wasteful growth. It's a shame, especially while the rest of the country densifies and strives to become more walkable in its urban centers. Sprawl is so 2003.

The problem with Atlanta is that you have more than just the city leaders of Atlanta involved. You have more than even the city leaders and the leaders of Fulton County involved. You have, in fact, the leaders of dozens of tiny counties and dozens and dozens of little municipalities inside those counties involved, and the situation is not helped by the fact that all of those counties hate all of the other counties, and all of the municipalities hate all the other municipalities, and they would all sooner die than work together with any of the others on anything. Thus... all those counties and municipalities are in cutthroat competition with each other and you have... "The Atlanta Metropolitan Area: Coming soon to a county near you!"

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

If only the mentality of the south wasn't so anti-urban...I mean, flying over Atlanta it is astounding how civic leaders could allow such out of control, wasteful growth. It's a shame, especially while the rest of the country densifies and strives to become more walkable in its urban centers. Sprawl is so 2003.

the population of atlanta proper is only 450,000 people or so, and it has a rather small pre-war core relative the the size of the region. it's not like it's a third or a fourth of the population of the region like metro chicago, ringed by pre-war development, that the core city could steer things like metra through that suburban development can build around. that being said, even chicago(land) is exceptionally sprawly for all of that gravity on the core.

the "mentality" you speak of is pretty much everywhere in the united states that isn't extremely expensive , constrained in some way (geographically or economically) or heavily built out. it's just that regions like atlanta have the economic engine to do their thing.

[destroycreate]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

The problem with Atlanta is that you have more than just the city leaders of Atlanta involved. You have more than even the city leaders and the leaders of Fulton County involved. You have, in fact, the leaders of dozens of tiny counties and dozens of dozens of little municipalities inside those counties involved, and the situation is not helped by the fact that all of those counties hate all of the other counties, and all of the municipalities hate all the other municipalities, and they would all sooner die than work together with any of the others on anything. Thus... all those counties and municipalities are in cutthroat competition with each other and you have... "The Atlanta Metropolitan Area: Coming soon to a county near you!"

Do you mind providing a little bit more context as to why surrounding/adjacent counties despise each other so much? Curious as to why that is.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Do you mind providing a little bit more context as to why surrounding/adjacent counties despise each other so much? Curious as to why that is.

that's not unique to atlanta. the problem is very common in the midwest, from detroit to kansas city. it seems to emerge when there isn't a politically powerful enough central city to orbit around. st. louis of course divorced itself from the core county, which then built it's own power center, kansas city's most wealthy suburbs (including inner suburbs) are in another state, detroit city has few favored quarter residential pockets and little regional power due to adjacent counties being powerful/wealthy.

this is all very common away from the NE and west coast, which generally do have politically powerful central cities.

the point being that the result is that regional counties don't cooperate, and frantically compete for pieces of the regions economic pie when there isn't a powerful central anchor.

[Centropolis]

additionally, the fragmentation that i just described can be super-charged by a good regional economy, thus atlanta. other regions would be very similar if they had the same growth rates.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

that's not unique to atlanta. the problem is very common in the midwest, from detroit to kansas city. it seems to emerge when there isn't a politically powerful enough central city to orbit around. st. louis of course divorced itself from the core county, which then built it's own power center, kansas city's most wealthy suburbs (including inner suburbs) are in another state, detroit city has few favored quarter residential pockets and little regional power due to adjacent counties being powerful/wealthy.

this is all very common away from the NE and west coast, which generally do have politically powerful central cities.

the point being that the result is that regional counties don't cooperate, and frantically compete for pieces of the regions economic pie when there isn't a powerful central anchor.

This. Why would, for example, Cobb County lift a finger to help Dekalb County if they can entice a major employer to come to Cobb instead? Fuck Dekalb. Likewise, why would Duluth work to help John's Creek if they can get DOT dollars spent in Duluth by screwing over John's Creek? Fuck John's Creek.