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  #981  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2011, 7:25 AM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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I apologize in advance for this post.

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Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
Meanwhile, areas of Coquitlam were built fully anticipating rapid transit.
Which was originally going to be LRT, by the way.

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By leaving Guildford to the buses, we would need more buses on ALL the Guildford-Whalley routes. Actually Skytrain will allow most of those bus routes to cease operating.
Bus service increased when the Canada Line came into effect. You'll still need lots of buses to feed a transit line, be it BRT or LRT or ALRT.

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It should be considered that if we build BRT/LRT, we are stuck with it;
You mean stuck with it like Richmond was stuck with the 98 B-Line?

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This is an issue today with the Canada Line. I see seriously overcrowded trains and people at the stations not able to get on, and yet there is not much being done about it.
You're not seriously comparing the Cambie corridor to 104th Avenue, are you?

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To begin with, it is a major and accessible crossroads; this situation has been hampered lately by the congestion to the north and east, but back then when the highway flowed smoothly, Guildford had arguably better potential than Whalley.
I'm glad you're admitting that you could arguably be wrong.

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I have to go west or east to either Richmond or Langley or Coquitlam - 1 hour commutes by transit - just to get a simple kit of memory I need at NCIX.
Yes, clearly a computer part store would complete Guildford.

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As Guildford is a place that is in between and will be fairly accessible from all directions (hopefully) by all sorts of transportation modes
In between two freeway entrances the Fraser Highway and a long stretch of SFH. Yes, it is definitely "between".

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Guildford is a crossroads
And to think the Surrey city council had it all wrong in trying to make Whalley the crossroads of Surrey.

My friend... let me give you a piece of advice: Quit while people are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Focus less on the technology chosen. Focus on realistic strategies, otherwise you're simply setting yourself up for disappointment. In addition, I'd recommend moving to another community when you move out. The vision you have for Guildford has very little chance of happening before you're a very old man.

You have a lot of passion and energy for this kind of stuff. I'd recommend you get as involved as you can in the process and see exactly what's involved in these decisions. While there is, of course, some politics involved, along with some pork barrel projects, I'm sure you'll find that many of the things that are being proposed by city council are both reasonable and realistic.
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  #982  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2011, 7:00 PM
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xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
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Quote:
You mean stuck with it like Richmond was stuck with the 98 B-Line?
Had the Olympics not been slated to happen in Vancouver, we would not have gotten the Canada Line for a long, long time. Oh, and let's see uh, where is that argument concerning route choice again...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhausner
I remember (and you can probably go back on these very forums) before Canada line was built reading loads of people arguing that it should be down Arbutus because if they go down Cambie "Nobody will use it!"
I could list many so many other situations where certain people, even the transportation planners themselves, have been totally wrong, but let's leave it at that before this gets way too complicated to even be possibly manageable.

we should also consider the price the 98 B-Line has inflicted. Sure, we built bus lanes in Richmond, improved the frequencies... but really, that did not throw nearly as huge an amount of money down the toilet. You could spend even more money to improve the route and perhaps with a balance of time and money (and major events) it wouldn't look so bad. Meanwhile, any major transit expansion for Surrey is probably going to be expensive and final... because seriously, I wouldn't spend another ~$2 billion having to upgrade the line again because it was inadequate, when I already spent ~$2 billion a few years ago. This is the same case with the Canada Line, in need of both longer trains and longer platforms, but this is something that is probably not going to happen for a long time, especially when metro-wide transit need is concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoneurons
Yes, clearly a computer part store would complete Guildford.
*quoting myself* Of course, I'm only using NCIX as an example.
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In between two freeway entrances the Fraser Highway and a long stretch of SFH. Yes, it is definitely "between".
Translink/BC MOT are reopening transit connections to Coquitlam within this decade. That could form a very, very powerful north-south corridor, and reinitiate Guildford as a major crossroads for intercity connections. Undoubtedly the position of Whalley as a crossroads for most intracity connections as well as some intercity connections through other centres, is definitely going to stay, and Whalley will be able to grow upon that.
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My friend... let me give you a piece of advice: Quit while people are still giving you the benefit of the doubt.
The only people who quit are people who don't really care about their city and their community. Nice try, but I still have a lot up my sleeve.
I have a question for you. If you're not convinced in my vision for Guildford, where is your proof? Important communities cannot simply be left to die like this. How does my vision have a "very low chance" of happening?

Last edited by xd_1771; Jun 12, 2011 at 7:17 PM.
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  #983  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2011, 3:25 AM
usog usog is offline
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I can tell the vast majority of you don't go through surrey central with any regularity but posters for this website have been up for a while now pasted in various spots around the bus loop:
http://skytrainforsurrey.wordpress.com/
So I need to ask which one of you is responsible for this?
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  #984  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2011, 5:46 AM
bardak bardak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usog View Post
I can tell the vast majority of you don't go through surrey central with any regularity but posters for this website have been up for a while now pasted in various spots around the bus loop:
http://skytrainforsurrey.wordpress.com/
So I need to ask which one of you is responsible for this?
While I may not agree with the individual from a feasibility standpoint good on you for your effort. Just try not to become the zweisystem of skytrian

Edit: I would love to see zweisystem face if he saw this however seeing as he doesn't seem to actually use transit I think it may take him awhile.

Last edited by bardak; Aug 14, 2011 at 6:07 AM.
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  #985  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2011, 7:10 AM
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Whalleyboy Whalleyboy is offline
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anyone noticed the report came out with public feed back of what they heard during last group of meetings. Found it funny i was in a picture on that report =P
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  #986  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2011, 6:36 AM
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xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
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Notice that only 56% agreed or strongly agreed with the preliminary evaluation results...
Sure, the other 44% were mostly neutral, but 56% isn't a very decent number when it comes to the agreement side of things...
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  #987  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2011, 5:07 PM
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aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
Notice that only 56% agreed or strongly agreed with the preliminary evaluation results...
Sure, the other 44% were mostly neutral, but 56% isn't a very decent number when it comes to the agreement side of things...
It's actually a pretty significant level of agreement when you consider all of the options that were available. If there were only two choices then it would be a slim majority, but with several options it's a pretty decisive result.
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  #988  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2011, 9:44 PM
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xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
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I've been reading and I'm seeing a lot more seniors vs youth participants (i.e. the "future") and smaller, less detailed comments from the people who apparently do agree....
Skeptical

What really bothers me is that this number is somewhat LESS than the agreement numbers posted for phase 1. There really weren't any huge changes in plans (i.e. for the better) between phase 1 and phase 2.... perhaps people are coming to their senses?
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  #989  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2011, 6:48 PM
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jlousa jlousa is offline
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Translink has issued an RFP titled "King George Boulevard B-Line Urban Design & Transit Priority Study"

Here are some of the details extracted from it, I'll post the link to the document at the bottom for those that want more details.

Quote:
1.0 BACKGROUND
1.1 The goal of this Request For Proposal, (RFP), is to issue a contract that will identify cost, and produce conceptual design drawings for infrastructure, transit priority measures, passenger access improvements, and passenger facilities required to provide an efficient, reliable and attractive B-Line bus service between Guildford and White Rock Centre via Surrey Central Station.
1.2 South of Fraser Area Transit Plan recommends implementation of a B-Line bus service between Guildford and White Rock Centre via Surrey Central Station. This limited stop transit service will improve travel times along the King George Boulevard – 104th Avenue – 152nd Street Corridor, build ridership to help support an eventual rapid transit line, and begin to attract more transit-oriented development around key station nodes.
1.3 B-Line Bus Service
(a) TransLink’s Frequent Transit Network (FTN) is a network of corridors along which transit comes at least every 15 minutes in both directions, throughout the day and into the evening, every day of the week. For the travelling public, the FTN provides a legible and interconnected network of convenient, reliable, easy-to-use services that are frequent enough to be schedule-free. For municipalities and the development community, the FTN provides a strong skeleton around which transit-oriented development should be focused.
(b) As illustrated in Table 1, Frequent Transit Service types are defined based on a combination of speed and local access – attributes that are primarily determined by the type of right-of-way and the station or stop spacing.
(c) Frequent local service generally operates in mixed traffic and serves stops spaced every 200-400m. On the other end of the spectrum, rapid transit consists of frequent limited stop service, with stations about 1km apart, running in an exclusive right-of-way.
(d) B-Line services running in mixed traffic fill a gap between these two ends of the Frequent Transit Service spectrum. With frequent service and limited stop spacing, B-Lines can approximate many of the benefits of rapid transit service without the high capital costs of exclusive rights-of-way.
(e) In order to optimize ridership, passenger, and urban development benefits, B-Line services should aim to approximate the permanence, speed, and design quality of rail transit to the extent possible within available resources.
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1.5 The two major work streams in this Contract are: “Transit Priority” and “Passenger Facilities and Access.” Although these streams require different skill sets, they should be undertaken in concert to ensure that proposed solutions balance the needs of the pedestrian/passenger environment with the operational needs of transit vehicles.
1.6 The Transit Priority work stream will account for 70% of Contractor effort. This work stream will identify the current and potential sources of transit delay along the proposed route, and recommend effective transit priority measures required to mitigate the sources of delay.
a) The Transit Priority work stream will be conducted in two phases. For Phase 1 of the study, Contractor shall examine the proposed B-Line corridor and investigate existing and potential delays along the corridor. Contractor shall identify strategies (e.g. queue jumper lanes, dedicated bus or HOV lanes, signal coordination or signal priority) to reduce delay and increase reliability. Pending findings and recommendations from Phase 1 of the study, Phase 2 may include a more vigorous and comprehensive traffic modelling study.
1.7 The Passenger Facilities and Access work stream will account for 30% of Contractor effort. Most transit riders perceive the access and waiting portions of the transit journey as particularly burdensome and accordingly transit demand models value these legs of the journey at 1.5-2.0 that of in-vehicle time. Passenger access and facility improvements are thus a cost-effective strategy
to make transit more competitive and attract ridership growth. The following specific measures should be included in the design of the B-Line service:
a) designing B-Line “stops” to feel like mini “stations”;
b) a strong brand identity with attractive easily-identified design and signage;
c) long and wide platforms;
d) adequate weather protection;
e) real time customer information;
f) bicycle parking (ideally secure);
g) other passenger amenities as appropriate for each site; and
h) access, safety, and security improvements to ensure that waiting and station access by foot and by bicycle are safe, comfortable, and convenient.
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1.10 Over the long-term, this B-Line service may be upgraded to some form of rapid transit (Bus Rapid Transit, Light Rail Transit, or Rail Rapid Transit), any of which will require significant road reconstruction. Accordingly, improvements recommended in this study should reflect a B-Line service that may operate anywhere from 10-20 years before rapid transit is implemented
Quote:
1.12 Study Area
a) The route, as illustrated in Figure 1, is proposed to run along the following roads (from north to south):
i. 104th Avenue from Guildford Exchange to 135th Street
ii. 135th Street from King George Boulevard to 102nd Avenue
iii. 102nd Avenue from 135th Street to King George Boulevard
iv. King George Boulevard from 104th Avenue to 152nd Street
v. 152nd Street from King George Boulevard to 16th Avenue
Quote:
1.14 The Passenger Facilities and Access study area consists of the twenty (20) proposed stations along the route shown in Figure 2 and the immediate pedestrian infrastructure within 1-2 blocks of the proposed route (shown schematically within the dashed line in Figure 2). 80% of effort in this work stream should be concentrated at the station and its immediate surroundings.
1.15 Study Time Horizon
a) For the purposes of this Study, Opening Year for the transit priority measures can be assumed to be 2014.
b) The horizon year for this Study should be 2031. Local demographic factors should be used to forecast future traffic, population, and travel patterns for this horizon year.
1.16 B-Line Service Details and Issues
a) For Opening Day, the B-Line service is planned to feature 7.5 minute frequency between Guildford Exchange and Newton Exchange (including Surrey Central Exchange), and 15 minute frequency between Newton Exchange and White Rock Centre. The service is expected to operate between 5AM and 1AM, seven days a week.
b) The level of service to be provided after Opening Day will be determined by ridership.
c) The B-Line service is expected to use conventional 60’ (articulated) buses.
d) The total one-way length of the route is approximately 22.9 kilometers.
e) The proposed B-Line route will stop at 20 stations (locations listed in APPENDIX 5- Section 1.0), with an average station spacing of 1 kilometre.
f) TransLink fully supports the City of Surrey’s efforts to transform the roads along this route from auto-oriented highways into multi-modal boulevards. Currently, pedestrian and bicycle access to most of the proposed stations is poor, with insufficient and/or poor quality sidewalks and bikeways, large blocks, infrequent pedestrian crossings, adjacent auto-oriented land uses, and high-speed, high-volume motor vehicle traffic. These issues must be addressed in order to optimize the proposed B-Line service.
g) Currently, two bus routes service the King George Boulevard – 152nd Street corridor: #321 and #394. #321 is a local service route, while #394 is an express service route. Both routes terminate at White Rock Centre and Surrey Central, the route is approximately 19.3 kilometers. Three bus routes service the 104th Avenue corridor: #320, #520 and #C74. Between Surrey Central Station to Guildford Station, the route is approximate 3.7 kilometers. The average running times on a typical weekday for #321 and #320 are 39 minutes and 11 minutes respectively, so the average traveling speed is 27.6 kilometers per hour.
h) With the proposed B-Line service, TransLink is striving to achieve improved service reliability and higher travelling speeds. It will be part of this project to identify the level of improvement that is reasonably achievable in these parameters.
i) Traffic congestion along the B-Line route is one of the major challenges in achieving schedule reliability and increase travel speed goals. Currently, there are 35 full traffic signals and 1 pedestrian signal along the proposed route.
j) Although there is limited driveway access (except for at shopping malls) and little on-street parking along much of the route, there are busy commercial areas along the corridor within the four town centers of Guildford, Surrey Central, Newton, and White Rock/Semiahmoo (illustrated in Figure 1).
k) The City of Surrey is working to transform the four town centers along the route into more transit-oriented districts featuring higher density, mixed-use, pedestrian-oriented development. TransLink supports this land use approach. However, traffic congestion in these areas is expected to increase requiring special consideration of ways to maintain transit reliability while recognizing the need for more pedestrian-oriented streetscapes.
l) The transit exchanges at the four town centers present particular challenges for transferring passengers. The fastest, safest and most legible transfer to other buses at each of these locations is for the B-Line bus to pull into the transit exchange. However, the exchanges cannot easily accommodate articulated buses and long signal cycles may cause long delays for buses entering and exiting the exchanges. However, providing an on-street transfer at these locations would create other issues. Poor urban design currently creates an inconvenient and uncomfortable transfer from on-street B-Line stops to the buses in the exchanges. Therefore, the station design should accommodate efficient transit operation, pleasant passenger environment and safe passenger access to and from the exchange.
Quote:
2.2 Improvements recommended in this study should reflect a B-Line service that may operate anywhere from 10-20 years.
Quote:
3.1 The following specific measures are to be included in the design of the B-Line service, but not limited to:
a) Transit priority measures to minimize travel times and increase service reliability;
b) Co-ordination of B-Line with local transit services in the same corridor and connecting feeders;
c) Optimized station configurations, each with the capacity for at least 1 articulated bus and 1 standard bus;
d) Three-door boarding to reduce dwell times;
e) Operational strategies (e.g. bus stop location, transit signal priority);
f) Possible off-board fare payment;
g) Station design and configuration at major transfer stations such as Guildford, Surrey Central, Newton and White Rock, which should allow safe, comfortable passenger transfers while minimizing transit vehicle delay (may include routing, stop designs and/or intersection modifications).
Source:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/docu...063%20rfp.ashx
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  #990  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2011, 8:57 PM
bardak bardak is offline
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Seems like the only major problem (outside of the actual funding) with the KGB B-line will be integrating it with Newton exchange.
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  #991  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2011, 5:11 PM
tybuilding tybuilding is offline
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There are mistakes in the streets:

ii. 135th Street from King George Boulevard to 102nd Avenue ----- should be 135th street should be between 104 Ave and 102 Ave

iv. King George Boulevard from 104th Avenue to 152nd Street ----- should be 102nd Ave to 152nd Street
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  #992  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2011, 7:11 PM
tybuilding tybuilding is offline
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New video of LRT Rendering from City of Surrey

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  #993  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2011, 8:13 PM
Zassk Zassk is offline
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Link not working for me.. can you check it please?
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  #994  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2011, 8:33 PM
Porfiry Porfiry is offline
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  #995  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2011, 10:58 PM
Millennium2002 Millennium2002 is offline
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Doesn't seem to be any different from before... and I still cannot reiterate enough the nonsense of downgrading 104th Ave from two lanes to one. If anything, do something like what Richmond did for No 3 Road... maintain two lanes but make it all nice for pedestrians.
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  #996  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2011, 5:50 AM
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Whalleyboy Whalleyboy is offline
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Its different since there is now someone talking about it.
here original if you dont remember it
http://youtu.be/YZ1t8lNtGaw
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  #997  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2011, 5:55 AM
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I love seeing these proposals but it is starting to feel like what is the point? look how long it has taken to get the Evergreen Line off the ground, oh right, it still isnt! And then there is the Broadway extension and this.

Unless Surrey is planning on taking charge of this project themselves I dont see it happening for a looong time (seeing how tight of a corner translink is painted into and how the mayors and province fight at every step along the way).
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  #998  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2011, 5:52 PM
tybuilding tybuilding is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I love seeing these proposals but it is starting to feel like what is the point? look how long it has taken to get the Evergreen Line off the ground, oh right, it still isnt! And then there is the Broadway extension and this.

Unless Surrey is planning on taking charge of this project themselves I dont see it happening for a looong time (seeing how tight of a corner translink is painted into and how the mayors and province fight at every step along the way).
Selling the LRT for development future potential. Imagine Surrey like this!
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  #999  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2011, 6:40 PM
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Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
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I'd imagine unless they start to get provincial backing this is going to end up like the Vancouver streetcar.
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  #1000  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2011, 9:50 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I love seeing these proposals but it is starting to feel like what is the point? look how long it has taken to get the Evergreen Line off the ground, oh right, it still isnt! And then there is the Broadway extension and this.

Unless Surrey is planning on taking charge of this project themselves I dont see it happening for a looong time (seeing how tight of a corner translink is painted into and how the mayors and province fight at every step along the way).
The more you talk about something, make videos and renders, the more it enters the public's consciousness, thus reducing the opposition to a project like this. It doesn't come out of left field for people and there is less knee-jerk rejection from people who oppose any changes, no matter how small.

Hopefully, when it comes to Surrey putting in LRT, it will be more of a foregone conclusion than anything.
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