Hey Canada! How bad are your pot holes?!

[SteelTown]

Some of Hamilton's bridges are heated. The main downtown bus terminal has heated roads.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I've often contemplated what you are saying because it does have merrit but my concern has always been what will happen to the water once it enters the storm system? Storm systems are not usually designed for cover from freezing ground conditions the way water and sanitary are. What will happen when we introduce water into that sytem during the winter? Further downstream you would also have to consider how it effects storm ponds. Not only would it lead to a varying water level under the ice in storm ponds many flow into ditches and small creeks. Introducing runoff into those would lead to all sorts of issues.

The storm sewers still function during the winter. The system here in Ottawa at least has unfrozen water in it all winter long. Eventually much of that standing water finds its way into the storm sewers, but not before some works its way into the road or evaporates. Some water is always getting in, be it seepage, from catch basins that have been cleared (we clear the one outside on our street out of some kind of enlightened civic duty), sump pumps, etc. And the more water that goes in, the less likely any of it is to freeze in the storm sewers themselves. It's probably heavily saline anyway...

If the stormwater ponds and creeks can deal with the surge in the spring, they can deal with a more regular flow during the winter.

Originally Posted by Xelebes

I'd imagine that it would also save on building costs due to the reduced redundancy of the doubled storm sewers.

Well we'd save on the cross-drains, anyway. Typically a street has one storm sewer under it somewhere and the catch basins drain into it via cross-drains.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by libtard

Uh oh

I guess that kind of throws a wrench in your "ZOMG EUROPE IS TEH BEST FOR URBAN METROPOLIS THEY DO EVERYTHING 10000 X better" mentality

What? Not even going to bother with a retort. This is the most retarded, not to mention mis-informed and ignorant post I have ever seen.

[blueandgoldguy]

I'd put Winnipeg's potholes up against any city's in Canada. And it's getting worse all the time. Usually come in on route 90 and the area on king Edward from Logan to Notre Dame is a ******* embarrassment. It's gotten to the point where they need to just completely rebuild the road - that's how bad it's become. R

Road leading to and from the airport is terrible as well. Not a very good way to create a good first impression for out-of-town visitors. Needs to be resurfaced at the very least.

[vid]

The intersection one block from my apartment completely caved in one year. The intersection I am on has our famous patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch.

I've been learning to drive recently and it isn't the pot holes that are frustrating, it's the manholes. They're all a couple inches higher than the roads right now.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by vid

The intersection one block from my apartment completely caved in one year. The intersection I am on has our famous patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch.

I've been learning to drive recently and it isn't the pot holes that are frustrating, it's the manholes. They're all a couple inches higher than the roads right now.

Is it a recently constructed or rebuilt road? They usually hold off putting on the top lift of ashphalt for a year or two until all of their maintenance obligations have been met (they being the contractors), and then will put the final lift of asphalt on, bringing the road level with the tops of the manholes, catchbasins, curbs, etc..

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by Dado

The storm sewers still function during the winter. The system here in Ottawa at least has unfrozen water in it all winter long. Eventually much of that standing water finds its way into the storm sewers, but not before some works its way into the road or evaporates. Some water is always getting in, be it seepage, from catch basins that have been cleared (we clear the one outside on our street out of some kind of enlightened civic duty), sump pumps, etc. And the more water that goes in, the less likely any of it is to freeze in the storm sewers themselves. It's probably heavily saline anyway...

If the stormwater ponds and creeks can deal with the surge in the spring, they can deal with a more regular flow during the winter.


Well we'd save on the cross-drains, anyway. Typically a street has one storm sewer under it somewhere and the catch basins drain into it via cross-drains.

I'm not so sure of that. You obviously know what your talking about, but I think this has more to do with the different ways cities deal with drainage because of availiblity of local water bodies. Edmonton dumps storm drainage from SWMF's into small ravines and creeks that don't have any (or very little) moving water in winter. If you were to discharge the adjacent street runoff into these during winter it would freeze and damn it up very quickly....potentially preventing these drainage courses from being able to accept drainage in the spring when it is needed to prevent flooding.

If you had a moving body of water that didn't freeze solid I think your solution would work.

[Chadillaccc]

Me and my boyfriend were driving on Whitemud Highway in Edmonton this weekend, hit a pothole so huge it almost blew out his tire. The truck is huge though, but holy crap. Never felt a bump that bad.

[vid]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Is it a recently constructed or rebuilt road? They usually hold off putting on the top lift of ashphalt for a year or two until all of their maintenance obligations have been met (they being the contractors), and then will put the final lift of asphalt on, bringing the road level with the tops of the manholes, catchbasins, curbs, etc..

It's more common on the worn, aging side streets than major roads. When they resurface roads here, they put temporary asphalt in place around the man-holes so that they're not so obstructive. The road itself has basically sagged while the manhole, being a solid tube, is still at the same height it always was. Much of the city seems to be sinking. The cross-street at my apartment is undulating a lot more this year than last, I think it's going to have a sinkhole again.

[leftimage]

This belongs here.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by vid

It's more common on the worn, aging side streets than major roads. When they resurface roads here, they put temporary asphalt in place around the man-holes so that they're not so obstructive. The road itself has basically sagged while the manhole, being a solid tube, is still at the same height it always was. Much of the city seems to be sinking. The cross-street at my apartment is undulating a lot more this year than last, I think it's going to have a sinkhole again.

When you rebuild a road (or build a new one) it is often difficult to properly compact around manholes. Thus the road sags around them. Along a roadway you can drive compactors back and forth, but where you have obsticles you have to use a tamper pad on an excavator or jumping jack. This majority of the sag will occur in the first couple of years allowing the contractor to remedy it when the final overlay is placed.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I'd put Winnipeg's potholes up against any city's in Canada. And it's getting worse all the time. Usually come in on route 90 and the area on king Edward from Logan to Notre Dame is a ******* embarrassment. It's gotten to the point where they need to just completely rebuild the road - that's how bad it's become. R

Road leading to and from the airport is terrible as well. Not a very good way to create a good first impression for out-of-town visitors. Needs to be resurfaced at the very least.

I wouldn't, honestly I KNOW we have potholes, trust me, but in my countless times in all parts of Canada and the USA, the oddest places you would expect potholes to be, seem to be the worst.

There are a few states in the USA that are horrible, the roads are like an earthquake hit them, you have massive potholes and then as concrete was used, massive cracks. I actually did in two tires ( new ones no less ) on one stretch.

Issue here in Canada is the PATCHING or just fixing the SURFACE, of roads. Only way to build them right is tear them up and start from scratch. Take St Annes, South of Bishop, I grew up here when this was gravel, then 2 lane asphalt, and now 4 lanes divided, I watched the division work, and eventually even worked on parts of it as I got older. The key here was to dig way down below frost line and prepare the sub surface correctly. The road has cracks now, but the potholes are rare, the road is 30 plus now. And not touched up really, except for curbs taken out in the winter of course. But it was done right.

Same goes for HWY 1 going EAST from the city, done in cement, and then shaved down thus the grooves you see. Then the cheap out on the West bound side of HWY 1, east of us, and just dump asphalt on gravel. We all know how this goes over with our Hot summers and Cold at time winters.

Each city has its issues , ours is CLAY and a very high water table and of course the frost. Calgary and Edmonton, have more of gravel soil texture, this is a little easier to build on and control the frost. But still needs to be done right.

So all in all, if your province is going to build roads, they need to just start fresh. Patch jobs if done the typical way, only last maybe 20 years if that. Done right ( patching ), they can last 30 plus, rebuilding from scratch, 60 plus ( of course this is with repairs done when they are needed and not allowed to become one huge tumor ).

If you guys though want to see an interesting way of fighting the frost, check out Alaskas hwy dept . They have it way worse then any of us. Some of those roads just sink due to the perma frost thawing and freezing. But they have solved it with a very unique way of just keeping the ground either thawed, or frozen. Here in MB we were looking at this idea as we intend to build a road all the way up to Nunavat through our perma frost. But The idea, I think could be used in the area's where most of us reside.

[vid]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

When you rebuild a road (or build a new one) it is often difficult to properly compact around manholes. Thus the road sags around them. Along a roadway you can drive compactors back and forth, but where you have obsticles you have to use a tamper pad on an excavator or jumping jack. This majority of the sag will occur in the first couple of years allowing the contractor to remedy it when the final overlay is placed.

Most of the places where this happens, are on roads that have not been rebuilt in my lifetime.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I'm not so sure of that. You obviously know what your talking about, but I think this has more to do with the different ways cities deal with drainage because of availiblity of local water bodies. Edmonton dumps storm drainage from SWMF's into small ravines and creeks that don't have any (or very little) moving water in winter. If you were to discharge the adjacent street runoff into these during winter it would freeze and damn it up very quickly....potentially preventing these drainage courses from being able to accept drainage in the spring when it is needed to prevent flooding.

If you had a moving body of water that didn't freeze solid I think your solution would work.

Well how exactly would it freeze solid? If the weather is warm enough to create a lot of the water in the first place, it's not about to freeze solid any time soon, and moving water even less so. Changes of state require a fair amount of energy; in this case, energy loss to the presumably colder atmosphere or ground. Moving water is even harder to freeze since the kinetic energy has to be dissipated as well.

And it's not like no water is making it into the storm sewers right now... just less than what there could be during mid-winter thaws.

[Dougler306]

Regina's ring-road has to be in the talk for worst roads in Canada. Every truck/semi/car going east or coming west has to go on to the ring road, It is so beat up and will need to be completely re-done yet again. I think it was only paved like 5 years ago and has gone to crap already. And being only 2 lanes and most of the time one lane because there are always accidents on it now or people in the ditch. Thank god for the SE bypass plan and the West by-pass which is already being constructed.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by Dado

Well how exactly would it freeze solid? If the weather is warm enough to create a lot of the water in the first place, it's not about to freeze solid any time soon, and moving water even less so. Changes of state require a fair amount of energy; in this case, energy loss to the presumably colder atmosphere or ground. Moving water is even harder to freeze since the kinetic energy has to be dissipated as well.

And it's not like no water is making it into the storm sewers right now... just less than what there could be during mid-winter thaws.

I apologize, i was combining the idea of using excess building heat or another source to heat the streets with your idea of the inverted crown on roads.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by vid

The intersection one block from my apartment completely caved in one year. The intersection I am on has our famous patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch-on-a-patch.

What dismays me is the way potholes are patched.

Here, and this is likely typical, they just throw some warmish asphalt into the hole and bang it down a bit. The hole might even be full of water - but in goes the asphalt anyway. If so it probably gets flash-cooled... so it's not really any surprise that a few days later it needs filling again.

One gets the impression that no one in the roads department gives too much thought as to how potholes form and reform. A pothole is, if nothing else, an area of asphalt that has been so weakened by various forces that it has lost integrity. It therefore stands to reason that the area immediately adjacent to a pothole, i.e. its edges, are also weakened. So what happens when a pothole is patched? Well the weak spot is now the circumference or the former edge, so it soon fails and once it has failed, the former pothole reappears. That kind of explains why they keep getting bigger.

To patch a pothole properly, they would have to empty it of water (if present), cut the sides to make clean cut lines in relatively strong asphalt and then fill that, compacting it fully and properly. Then we might get pothole patches to the same quality level we've come to expect from utility cuts .


I also wish they'd put that rubberized crack filler to more use in the rest of the year. The street I live on was repaved in the mid 1990s for sewer and water line work but in the last several years it has begun to develop cracks (they look like expansion-contraction cracks) and each year they get a little bit bigger, with debris filling them. The crack filler is ugly but if used early enough it does work quite well.

I've been learning to drive recently and it isn't the pot holes that are frustrating, it's the manholes. They're all a couple inches higher than the roads right now.

Ugg. Sounds like the ice in the roadbed has melted and with it, the road has slumped. The combination of the freeze-thaw cycle and the rising-falling water table is great for compacting lower layers.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Dougler306

Regina's ring-road has to be in the talk for worst roads in Canada.

For a different reason, I'd instead nominate the stretch of Hwy 1 immediately east of it.

By-pass, you say?

[vid]

Thunder Bay switched the kind of crack filler it uses last year and it's made a huge difference. For most of the summer, you can't even tell that there was a crack in the road where they used it, whereas the old stuff usually just popped out after a year or two. The only downside is it leaves a nearly 10 inch wide band of pitch black across the usually light grey asphalt.