AUSTIN | Austin Proper | 397 FEET | 32 FLOORS | Complete

[corvairkeith]

[KevinFromTexas]

Smaller versions of these are in the links.


https://www.facebook.com/independent...type=3&theater


https://www.facebook.com/independent...type=3&theater

[smith_atx]

I think that last pic is funny because it has people in positions similar to what you'd see in those optimistic renderings. It's just missing the fancy car parked.

[the Genral]

There is a trail that goes under the bridge you can see from the first pic. The bridge looks like a head bonker if you walk underneath it. How high above the trail is it?

[abigdeal]

Originally Posted by the Genral

There is a trail that goes under the bridge you can see from the first pic. The bridge looks like a head bonker if you walk underneath it. How high above the trail is it?

That's a deceptive view. It isn't low at all. My kids spent an hour under there throwing rocks into the creek a couple weeks ago when we went to the new library. It's a great spot.

[Jdawgboy]

As others have stated, those power lines are a major detractor from what could be a picture perfect part of DT. It's time that the city really considers moving the power station or putting the power lines underground. Millions of dollars have already been spent creating a whole new section to DT. It seems a waste not to go ahead and spend a bit more to do it right. It truly is a blemish. Doesn't matter what the city does to beautify the area around the station and under those lines, to use a metaphor, it's like putting lipstick on a pig, (honestly pot belly pigs are adorable but I digress) they can't hide the root of the problem until the problem is removed.

[loonytoony]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

As others have stated, those power lines are a major detractor from what could be a picture perfect part of DT. It's time that the city really considers moving the power station or putting the power lines underground. Millions of dollars have already been spent creating a whole new section to DT. It seems a waste not to go ahead and spend a bit more to do it right. It truly is a blemish. Doesn't matter what the city does to beautify the area around the station and under those lines, to use a metaphor, it's like putting lipstick on a pig, (honestly pot belly pigs are adorable but I digress) they can't hide the root of the problem until the problem is removed.

I'd love to see it go as well but don't know how possible that will be in the short term.. We've pretty much maxed out the grid already, actually needing a new substation to keep up new development (proposed for 55 East Ave - see https://austinenergy.com/wcm/connect...S&CVID=lS5T6bb).

Adding to this, Austin Energy has already spent in the $15m region consolidating what was on Library's site to Seaholm Substation's current site. Burying would be ideal, but a reputable source estimated the cost of this to be around $100m. Or, if it's moved, where would it go? Nobody in the surrounding neighborhoods will be quick to sign up. It's ugly as anything, but until power distribution changes I believe we'll see this thing stick around.

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by loonytoony

I'd love to see it go as well but don't know how possible that will be in the short term.. We've pretty much maxed out the grid already, actually needing a new substation to keep up new development (proposed for 55 East Ave - see https://austinenergy.com/wcm/connect...S&CVID=lS5T6bb).

Adding to this, Austin Energy has already spent in the $15m region consolidating what was on Library's site to Seaholm Substation's current site. Burying would be ideal, but a reputable source estimated the cost of this to be around $100m. Or, if it's moved, where would it go? Nobody in the surrounding neighborhoods will be quick to sign up. It's ugly as anything, but until power distribution changes I believe we'll see this thing stick around.

Informative link, thanks.

[chundercracker]

Originally Posted by loonytoony

I'd love to see it go as well but don't know how possible that will be in the short term.. We've pretty much maxed out the grid already, actually needing a new substation to keep up new development (proposed for 55 East Ave - see https://austinenergy.com/wcm/connect...S&CVID=lS5T6bb).

Adding to this, Austin Energy has already spent in the $15m region consolidating what was on Library's site to Seaholm Substation's current site. Burying would be ideal, but a reputable source estimated the cost of this to be around $100m. Or, if it's moved, where would it go? Nobody in the surrounding neighborhoods will be quick to sign up. It's ugly as anything, but until power distribution changes I believe we'll see this thing stick around.

Yea, considering that supplanting the seaholm substation with the new proposed one wasn't even an alternative considered probably means this monstrosity is going to stay for the forseeable future... Too bad, it would make a great location for something like this:Mercado de San Miguel

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by loonytoony

I'd love to see it go as well but don't know how possible that will be in the short term.. We've pretty much maxed out the grid already, actually needing a new substation to keep up new development (proposed for 55 East Ave - see https://austinenergy.com/wcm/connect...S&CVID=lS5T6bb).

Adding to this, Austin Energy has already spent in the $15m region consolidating what was on Library's site to Seaholm Substation's current site. Burying would be ideal, but a reputable source estimated the cost of this to be around $100m. Or, if it's moved, where would it go? Nobody in the surrounding neighborhoods will be quick to sign up. It's ugly as anything, but until power distribution changes I believe we'll see this thing stick around.

this is a topic about which I know absolutely nothing. but the $100m estimate seems high considering how commonly this is found in other countries. Anaheim has a park substation that was apparently the first in the US and cost a lot less than that. here is a related article. given the proximity to the creek and library, a park space here would have great potential.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by atxsnail

this is a topic about which I know absolutely nothing. but the $100m estimate seems high considering how commonly this is found in other countries. Anaheim has a park substation that was apparently the first in the US and cost a lot less than that. here is a related article. given the proximity to the creek and library, a park space here would have great potential.

$19.5 million sounds doable to me. If something similar was done on already existing city land, they could sell off the substation parcel to defray the costs. I don't know what price it would fetch, but I'm sure it would be significant enough to make a dent in whatever the actual final costs would be.

[loonytoony]

Originally Posted by atxsnail

this is a topic about which I know absolutely nothing. but the $100m estimate seems high considering how commonly this is found in other countries. Anaheim has a park substation that was apparently the first in the US and cost a lot less than that. here is a related article. given the proximity to the creek and library, a park space here would have great potential.

It did seem super high to me as well, but came from a contact at Austin Energy, when asked what it would cost to bury the existing substation. The one coming at 55 East Ave is estimated for $26m per AE link I posted. You'd imagine this will be an above ground system starting from scratch, and capable of handling the load needed for area, so could be a useful baseline.

I can definitely see added costs for burying and all that would entail. Plus you'd have to have another two substations up and running by then to handle losing Seaholm's load during build-out. Maybe they were taking a big picture approach with the figure but I can't say for sure.

[Jdawgboy]

What about re-aligning the current lines that cross over Shoal Creek and have them go around the back of the Library instead for a short term solution? Since the library doesn't have good views in that direction, but then again Seaholm residencies would be impacted...

I think this subject should be kept at the forefront regardless so the city feels obligated to do something about it eventually. I'm sure us forumers are not the only ones who feel that the power lines at the very least should be removed whether by re-alignment or placing underground. There are likely people who work for the city as well as big stakes developers involved in the area who would like to see the same. Even if it's a few years down the road, it would be well worth it.

[myBrain]

[the Genral]

Now I know why they are so far behind 3rd and Shoal...those are the three guys who built the library.

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by the Genral

Now I know why they are so far behind 3rd and Shoal...those are the three guys who built the library.

They rotate between this and Zaza.

[ahealy]

I really cannot express how much I am loving this facade and positioning. Waiting with bated breath for the pinkish glass THAT ISN'T BLUE

[H2O]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

What about re-aligning the current lines that cross over Shoal Creek and have them go around the back of the Library instead for a short term solution? Since the library doesn't have good views in that direction, but then again Seaholm residencies would be impacted...

I think this subject should be kept at the forefront regardless so the city feels obligated to do something about it eventually. I'm sure us forumers are not the only ones who feel that the power lines at the very least should be removed whether by re-alignment or placing underground. There are likely people who work for the city as well as big stakes developers involved in the area who would like to see the same. Even if it's a few years down the road, it would be well worth it.

So this topic has been discussed repeatedly. I'll respond one more time because it seems some people have poor memories.

The power lines were realigned in preparation for the library construction. They used to run parallel to Shoal Creek, immediately adjacent to the library site. They were moved to cross Shoal Creek on the diagonal so the difference would be split between the library and GreenWater sites.

Austin Energy examined moving them to West Avenue, but that was found to be infeasible. They also studied putting them underground. That was found to have a greater impact on the library than overhead lines and enormously expensive.

When high voltage electrical lines are placed underground, the size of each of the half dozen or so wires increases exponentially (8 - 10 inches diameter) to counteract overheating. They also have to be encased in a solid concrete duct bank (about 12 x 12 feet square section). The large diameter steel wires and concrete encasement also means that the wires do not bend easily when transitioning from horizontal to vertical (from underground to poles), and the duct banks have to be placed close to the surface to reduce overheating.

Due to these constraints, it was determined that the library would not be able to open up to Shoal Creek at the lower level if the wires were put underground. All of the landscaped area between the building and trail would not have been possible. The design team decided that the visual impact of the wires moved further away from the building was the lesser of evils.

Until somebody perfects Tesla's idea of wireless electricity infrastructure, high voltage power lines and the substation will be part of the character of the Seaholm District. The railroad (which is heavily used) can be a noise nuisance, but it and elements like the substation and preserved remnant utility infrastructure (like the Seaholm stacks and boiler 5) should be thought of as part of the character of the district that makes it distinct from other parts of Downtown. Eliminating all traces of the past history of the district would be a disservice and make the place generically boring. Still functional and necessary infrastructure like the railroad and substation should be embraced as part of what makes the are unique.

Rant over.

[drummer]

Originally Posted by H2O

So this topic has been discussed repeatedly. I'll respond one more time because it seems some people have poor memories.

The power lines were realigned in preparation for the library construction. They used to run parallel to Shoal Creek, immediately adjacent to the library site. They were moved to cross Shoal Creek on the diagonal so the difference would be split between the library and GreenWater sites.

Austin Energy examined moving them to West Avenue, but that was found to be infeasible. They also studied putting them underground. That was found to have a greater impact on the library than overhead lines and enormously expensive.

When high voltage electrical lines are placed underground, the size of each of the half dozen or so wires increases exponentially (8 - 10 inches diameter) to counteract overheating. They also have to be encased in a solid concrete duct bank (about 12 x 12 feet square section). The large diameter steel wires and concrete encasement also means that the wires do not bend easily when transitioning from horizontal to vertical (from underground to poles), and the duct banks have to be placed close to the surface to reduce overheating.

Due to these constraints, it was determined that the library would not be able to open up to Shoal Creek at the lower level if the wires were put underground. All of the landscaped area between the building and trail would not have been possible. The design team decided that the visual impact of the wires moved further away from the building was the lesser of evils.

Until somebody perfects Tesla's idea of wireless electricity infrastructure, high voltage power lines and the substation will be part of the character of the Seaholm District. The railroad (which is heavily used) can be a noise nuisance, but it and elements like the substation and preserved remnant utility infrastructure (like the Seaholm stacks and boiler 5) should be thought of as part of the character of the district that makes it distinct from other parts of Downtown. Eliminating all traces of the past history of the district would be a disservice and make the place generically boring. Still functional and necessary infrastructure like the railroad and substation should be embraced as part of what makes the are unique.

Rant over.

Count myself as one with poor memory, I suppose. I appreciate the explanation, thanks for that.

[Jdawgboy]

To be fair, it's not that some of us do not remember that this has been discussed before, it's that despite what has been done it's still a blight to the area regardless if it lends it's presence to the fact that Seaholm was once a power plant. The high voltage powerline alignment over Shoal Creek couldn't be more of a joke. It's terrible and detracts from the scenery. Maybe it comes down to individual opinion so I'll concede that point to my personal taste. High voltage lines over an area where a lot of people will be under is also not very desirable.

Like I said, not expecting the situation to change in the near term but nothing wrong with keeping the discussion going because things can and will change over the long term. The city will eventually face the prospect of removing it completely and I don't see a problem with pushing the idea as I'm sure there are many who feel the same.


Going back to Austin Proper, I didn't know the windows are going to be pink! That's going to be awesome!