Canada: Idle No More Movement

[SignalHillHiker]

And I think that's a positive and healthy reaction - just as it can be helpful to feel anger and the desire to protest if it is effectively and appropriately channeled.

But I don't think we can say that the effects of the Holocaust are over. They live on every day in the Middle East - and while individual families may be completely healed and over it, collectively there's still some problems stemming from the fact it happened.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Cyrodill

Thats what happened to my family during WII, we're doing fine thanks.

If your family fled Europe during the Nazi reign of terror, then there are major differences. European Jewry had a strong cultural foundation, whereas First Nations were already weakened by hundreds of years of colonialism. The Holocaust lasted for 15 years, the residential school system for over a hundred.

And the goal of it was not to kill Natives, but to re-educate them and eliminate "the Indian in the child", to make them part of the dominant society. It didn't work, but it was successful at disrupting cultural continuity, destroying parent-child relationships and social structures, and creating whole generations unable to lead their own culture and their own families.

Whereas the Holocaust lasted less than one generation, and was a program of extermination, not re-education. Those who fled did so, often, with their families, with a sense of their own culture, and a resistance--shared by the whole world--to their oppressors.

It's a really, really different situation.

[vid]

Read this.

[Boris2k7]

The first time I heard "Idle no More," I thought it was some sort of exercise program meant to get people off their couches.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Cyrodill

Idle No More Movement/Protests

Your thoughts on the movement/protest. Positive/Negative.

Defined as:

Idle No More is an ongoing protest movement; which began in December 2012, originating among the Aboriginal peoples in Canada comprising the First Nations, Métis and Inuit peoples and their non-Aboriginal supporters in Canada, and to a lesser extent, internationally. It has consisted of a number of political actions worldwide, inspired in part by the liquid diet hunger strike of Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence and further coordinated via social media.

Definition above from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_No_More

** Note: I have no affiliation with this movement but am adding it as a thread for discussion as it has affected Canadians across the Country in one way or another.

I think Theresa Spence was not part of the original Idle No More movement. In fact I think she was closer to being the kind of chief they were protesting against, but the media kept linking her to it, and even trying to make her the face of the movement. Then when it turned out that her hunger strike didn’t involve much actual hunger (did she lose any weight at all?) it discredited the movement as a whole in the eyes of the general public. As a movement I think it’s largely had the feet kicked out from under it by the way the national media portrayed it and linked it to Theresa Spence.

With respect to First Nations rights in general, there’s one simple fact that I find consistently gets overlooked. The treaties were essentially contracts that were made in accordance with our legal traditions. If you say that it’s ok to break a treaty then you’re saying that it’s ok to back out of a contract, and that’s not what law-abiding, honorable, people do according to our own laws and customs. We signed the treaties and we need to live up to them, according to our own laws. In one sense this isn’t about First Nations people at all. It’s about us living up to our own commitments.

[saffronleaf]

Well, with how New Brunswick is rapidly losing population and has an extremely old population, the Natives will soon have the province to themselves, with pristine water tables and absolutely zero development / economy / jobs -- a lot like it was before colonization.

[eternallyme]

I have zero sympathy for the movement. I believe they are using our First Nations as pawns to create radical and violent movements, primarily funded by unrelated activist groups and unions. The movement needs to be condemned - they are now the same as the Quebec student movement.

[Cyro]

Take what you will from this article.Don't shoot the messenger.

Native protesters ought to apologize

The behaviour of Elsipogtog First Nation protesters in New Brunswick is simply unacceptable.

They are their own worst enemies and are hurting their own cause.

Our jaws dropped when we listened to Chief Aaron Sock say at a Monday press conference that they're willing to forgive the RCMP.

"We are on the path to forgiveness. Although it's a long road and it may take some time, the Mi'kmaq are always a forgiving people," said Sock.

So what exactly did the RCMP do that you're going to forgive them for, Chief?

Let's take a guess:

For them confiscating the property and vehicles of CTV and Global News?

For them threatening and intimidating Sun News reporter Kris Sims?

For placing improvised explosive devices at the scene?

For setting fire to vehicles?

For having the gall to cry foul when someone finally enforces an injunction against them?

Oh, wait a second ... the RCMP didn't do any of that.

Con't @ >>http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/21...to-apologize-2

Thoughts?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Cyrodill

Take what you will from this article.Don't shoot the messenger.

Native protesters ought to apologize

The behaviour of Elsipogtog First Nation protesters in New Brunswick is simply unacceptable.

They are their own worst enemies and are hurting their own cause.

Our jaws dropped when we listened to Chief Aaron Sock say at a Monday press conference that they're willing to forgive the RCMP.

"We are on the path to forgiveness. Although it's a long road and it may take some time, the Mi'kmaq are always a forgiving people," said Sock.

So what exactly did the RCMP do that you're going to forgive them for, Chief?

Let's take a guess:

For them confiscating the property and vehicles of CTV and Global News?

For them threatening and intimidating Sun News reporter Kris Sims?

For placing improvised explosive devices at the scene?

For setting fire to vehicles?

For having the gall to cry foul when someone finally enforces an injunction against them?

Oh, wait a second ... the RCMP didn't do any of that.

Con't @ >>http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/21...to-apologize-2

Thoughts?

Support the article 100%. Those thugs - radicalized by outsiders (mainly activist groups and unions) - are making all First Nations of Canada look bad, when the overwhelming majority want nothing to do with them.

[MexiQuebecois]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I have zero sympathy for the movement. I believe they are using our First Nations as pawns to create radical and violent movements, primarily funded by unrelated activist groups and unions. The movement needs to be condemned - they are now the same as the Quebec student movement.

[headhorse]

a few interesting links. the third one is especially funny (Che Guevara symbol, weed bandana and a.... tapout hat? come on rcmp you can do better than that.)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rcmp-b...paign-1.188599

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCRsj06wT64&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-6cnGkp3Y

[headhorse]

it's bizarre how trusting people are of the corporate state and everything they control.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Cyrodill

Just as the posts so far try to explain the reasoning for this movement and the protests themselves, I find them all over the spectrum in exactly what this movement is trying to accomplish and the way they are going about it?

That's because you're basically looking at Occupy, Canadian style.

Whatever happened to that movement, by the way?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by freeweed

That's because you're basically looking at Occupy, Canadian style.

Whatever happened to that movement, by the way?

As soon as the unions and activist groups found another movement to tag along to (Quebec students, Idle No More for two examples), they just moved on...they are all the same.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

If your family fled Europe during the Nazi reign of terror, then there are major differences. European Jewry had a strong cultural foundation, whereas First Nations were already weakened by hundreds of years of colonialism. The Holocaust lasted for 15 years, the residential school system for over a hundred.

And the goal of it was not to kill Natives, but to re-educate them and eliminate "the Indian in the child", to make them part of the dominant society. It didn't work, but it was successful at disrupting cultural continuity, destroying parent-child relationships and social structures, and creating whole generations unable to lead their own culture and their own families.

Whereas the Holocaust lasted less than one generation, and was a program of extermination, not re-education. Those who fled did so, often, with their families, with a sense of their own culture, and a resistance--shared by the whole world--to their oppressors.

It's a really, really different situation.

Darkly ironic, but I've heard people say many times that this country would have had a lot less headache if we'd simply done what Hitler did, and killed them all off and/or chased them out of the country. I've actually heard this comment from full-blooded First Nations, by the way.

I don't think that's what you're saying, but it's a seemingly inevitable comparison every time the Natives and the Jews come up in the same conversation. And I've seen it argued this way - in the sense that one group had it "easier" or what have you.

It's also really weird because if anyone is seriously suggesting that the Jewish people have "gotten over" the Holocaust - well, there just isn't a big enough smiley for my reaction there.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

If your family fled Europe during the Nazi reign of terror, then there are major differences. European Jewry had a strong cultural foundation, whereas First Nations were already weakened by hundreds of years of colonialism. The Holocaust lasted for 15 years, the residential school system for over a hundred.

And the goal of it was not to kill Natives, but to re-educate them and eliminate "the Indian in the child", to make them part of the dominant society. It didn't work, but it was successful at disrupting cultural continuity, destroying parent-child relationships and social structures, and creating whole generations unable to lead their own culture and their own families.

Whereas the Holocaust lasted less than one generation, and was a program of extermination, not re-education. Those who fled did so, often, with their families, with a sense of their own culture, and a resistance--shared by the whole world--to their oppressors.

It's a really, really different situation.

I'll have to disregard most of the beginning of your post, as my family is not of Jewish descent, which is a major part of the Holocaust case your presenting.

Being of other European descent,and not Jewish, my Family's rights we're taken away by the occupiers or foreign power in control at the time. They we're placed in ghettos,(even non jewish individuals were). They were forced to adhere to the political power at the time,as 3rd class citizens, labourers, guinea pigs, etc.. segregated, forced to bow to the will of the existing regime of the time and to conform to thier beliefs and ideals. Children, women and adults.

If you did not tow the line, you would disappear, and unless you could prove a pure bloodline to the occupiers, you were nothing, darker colored skin, or darker hair. Yes the duration of this conflict lasted a shorter time but to some, will last forever to many cultural groups. To my familiy and descendants....we've moved on.

It's different, but not really, really different.....

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Whereas the Holocaust lasted less than one generation, and was a program of extermination, not re-education. Those who fled did so, often, with their families, with a sense of their own culture, and a resistance--shared by the whole world--to their oppressors.

It's a really, really different situation.

The Holocaust was the high-water mark of centuries of antisemitism. It was a unique event, but the ideology behind it wasn't. And resistance was most definitely not "shared by the whole world." That's either breathtaking ignorance on your part or a hastily added phrase employed to cobble together an argument. You've surely heard of the SS St. Louis? Or how about the motivation for forming the state of Israel? The European Jews that survived were not welcome anywhere in the world, even after 1945 and everything had come to light, with the notable exceptions of the U.S. and Argentina.

Yeah, the situations are different. For one thing, the Jews had/have a more highly developed and sophisticated ethnic culture than First Nations people did in North America, which was perhaps one component allowing them to survive and subsist.

[Acajack]

Another main difference between aboriginals in Canada and Jews in Europe is that by and large aboriginals in Canada are still living in the society of the "oppressors" or at least in the society set up by them or run by their heirs.

It is quite different for European Jews (especially in countries where things were especially bad like Germany and Poland), where there are very few Jews left. Most Jews were either killed or moved elsewhere (US, Canada, Israel, etc.)

So in a sense, it's easier for them to think that that tragic episode of their history is "over".

Rightly or wrongly, I suspect that many aboriginals in Canada (and perhaps all over the new world in fact), don't really see things as being "over" for them. This is just another phase in the continuum.

Making a new start in a new country (new language usually, new geography, etc.) was likely a bigger challenge for Jews post-WW2, but it was likely more liberating as well.

[freeweed]

Another difference: plenty of us aboriginals have managed to just give in and live as one of the "oppressors". European Jews were not exactly considered welcome in most countries, for a hell of a long time. Arguably this continues even today, in some regions.

Canada as a whole had no issue with my family integrating fully into the larger society. So much so that you'd never even know where I came from, if I didn't mention it.

[Cyro]

Why is this discussion centering on only the Jewish experience during this time and it's affects on the population, No denying it was the cultural group most affected, but what about the other cultural groups that were affected during this time? The Czech,Russians,Poles,Ukrainians,Romanians..etc. of non Jewish heritage that were subjected to this terrible treatment?

Please don't say (bolded) I already answered my own question.