James Beard Public Market | Proposed

[IHEARTPDX]

It would fit nicely into the Burnside Bridgehead development as well...with "produce row" adjacent to the project and the proposed streetcar lines for the Central eastside. It would serve a wider section of Portland's community as well as bring more tourism (possibly) to that area.

[bvpcvm]

look, i don't mean to be negative, but portland isn't quite the tourist destination that seattle and vancouver are, which leaves residents as the primary customers.

residents of downtown are one thing; they can travel to a market more easily, even if it's at centennial mills. but 80,000 downtown are workers leave at 5pm in a hurry to get home, tired after a day of corporate raiding or whatever, and a side trip, even to union station when the max is running is going to add another hour. srsly. given 5 minutes waiting, 10 minutes travelling, 20 minutes shopping, then the same thing going back to pioneer square to catch the max back to willow creek, oh, and btw, with bags of groceries.

that's a huge barrier to put between you (market owner) and sales. i know finding a place in the very center would be a challenge, but if it's going to work, i think it's the only way. so, if i were to name my top locations, in order, it would be: 1. 10th and yamhill, or thereabouts; 2. (just thought of this) somewhere very close to the 18th and morrison max stop; 3. blocks in front of union station; 4. union station itself and a very distant (figuratively and literally) 5. centennial mills, but only very very grudgingly.

[urbanlife]

I have always wondered why there hasn't been a push to put it in the New Market Theater building at Ankeny Square. That use to be a public market building anyway. Plus they could tear down that ugly glass addition and do something much nicer and possibly taller that works into the rest of the architecture on that block.

Max stop right there, the walk from the Pearl and other locations in downtown would be very easy. UofO is going to be in that area. Then the need for parking could be addressed by building a garage on the parking lot on 2nd and Ash with condo, office space, and apartments above that.

I still think that location would be the best fit for that, but hell, give the democrats a couple years to take back the White House totally and the money needed to move the Amtrak station could easily happen, then that would be a good possibility too.

[PacificNW]

I agree, urbanlife. I have felt the same thing for a long time.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I have always wondered why there hasn't been a push to put it in the New Market Theater building at Ankeny Square. That use to be a public market building anyway. Plus they could tear down that ugly glass addition and do something much nicer and possibly taller that works into the rest of the architecture on that block.

Max stop right there, the walk from the Pearl and other locations in downtown would be very easy. UofO is going to be in that area. Then the need for parking could be addressed by building a garage on the parking lot on 2nd and Ash with condo, office space, and apartments above that.

I still think that location would be the best fit for that, but hell, give the democrats a couple years to take back the White House totally and the money needed to move the Amtrak station could easily happen, then that would be a good possibility too.

New Market Theatre is too small for a large public market like Pike St. It's only about a half a block. Maybe a local market for OT/CT.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by IHEARTPDX

It would fit nicely into the Burnside Bridgehead development as well...with "produce row" adjacent to the project and the proposed streetcar lines for the Central eastside. It would serve a wider section of Portland's community as well as bring more tourism (possibly) to that area.

Burnside Bridgehead would be a great location.

[robbobpdx]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

The problem with putting it around 10th and Morrison is you're limited to a 200' x 200' block. Fine for a neighborhood market, but not big enough for a destination market.

I think at 10th and Morrison (the Galleria) you can go UP !!! so it doesn't need to all be on one floor. Pike market in Seattle is on several floors and works great ! Plus the Galleria has an underground parking garage, plus is next to MAX and the streetcar. Can't figure out why the market folks don't see THAT building as a potential. I don't think three floors of 200 x 200 is so bad. I don't get the reason or connection with the water for the public market. I like our river also, but we're not really a sea port (like Vancouver and Seattle). Seafood is one of the reasons their public markets are on the water. Not sure that quite fits Portland, but

Like Mark said earlier, I can't believe they haven't done something so far. Seems they may be waiting for something to fall in their lap rather than really going after something. Otherwise, I think they would have done it by now.

[mcbaby]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

New Market Theatre is too small for a large public market like Pike St. It's only about a half a block. Maybe a local market for OT/CT.

you know, if they relocated the family services inside and restored the interior, you'd see that the building isn't so small. it has a couple stories and the lot out front could accomodate tents like they do for saturday market.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

New Market Theatre is too small for a large public market like Pike St. It's only about a half a block. Maybe a local market for OT/CT.

you are right, but there is ways around that. The New Market Theater is a three story building. But if you include the two buildings next to it and possibly whatever could happen within the garage it would create, that amount of space begins to add up and takes it out of being a one building development and turning it into something much more.

[PDX City-State]

RON PAUL

The Portland Public Market's biggest fan tells his fellow foodies not to give up their dream project after seven years and counting.

BY MIKE THELIN

As you read this, Portland's Ron Paul is 8,000 miles away in India

touting a local project that's yet to leave the ground in his hometown.

The 57-year-old restaurateur-turned-bureaucrat's proposed Portland Public Market seemed dead last July when Mayor Tom Potter and City Commissioner Erik Sten decided not to fund the relocation of Old Town's Central Fire Station. That move would have cleared the way for the year-round food market in the iconic but lifeless Ankeny Square.

But Paul and other public-market supporters have regrouped, aiming the market for the inside and outside of Union Station.

Before Paul jetted to India as one of 55 famous food luminaries and architects invited to speak at the Doors of Perception global conference, WW asked him about his seven-year quest to bring a public market to Portland, the only major Pacific Northwest city without one.

WW: After the tram debacle, why would Portland taxpayers support another publicly funded project like a market?

Ron Paul: A public market is not necessarily appropriate to talk about in the same breath. We're suffering from "post-tram-atic" syndrome. But that's not the substantive environment. The market has a very solid purpose in promoting local agriculture, place-making and locally owned commerce.

Opponents of Major League Baseball here have "Bring Major League Education" bumper stickers that mean education trumps frivolities like sports. Why is your project any less of a frivolity?

Whereas we've never had Major League Baseball, we have had a long and rich tradition of public markets. It's time to reconnect with authentic food sold by authentic providers. That is not frivolous; it's pretty core. The city's role in creating the type of public market we envision is only in a capital contribution. And with Union Station, it's a contribution the city acknowledges it needs to make. The operating expenses are covered by rents the vendors pay.

Wouldn't a central market undermine the city's dozens of neighborhood and farmers markets?

Think of local agriculture on a continuum. From a producer's point of view, you have it beginning with U-pick and farm-stand sales, going to community-supported agriculture, farmers markets, public markets and then on to supermarkets that support locally produced goods. The public market fits into that continuum without diminishing other elements along the chain. So in [Vancouver] and in Seattle, research has shown that the shoppers for farmers markets and public markets do not conflict with each other but broaden the spectrum of people who buy fresher, local products.

How much would it cost to renovate Union Station for a market?

Approximately $5 million to $6 million. To take care of the city's responsibility in deferred maintenance and seismic repair is probably $30 million to $35 million. But the increment for the market could actually be raised privately, so that having a market could exist at no additional public expense if the city understands its obligation in restoring Union Station. The city owns it, it's a landmark on the national registry, and the building continues to deteriorate to an intolerable level.

What's the maximum the city should spend on operations?

Except in extraordinary times, zero. Whatever the tab is for the restoration, coupled with private fundraising, will allow the market to open debt-free.

Given that this still hasn't happened and it's been seven years, what is your reason for optimism?

Well...I've yet to turn completely white. There is optimism for all the reasons we've talked about.
Paul was the first Northwest chef to cook at the James Beard House in New York City. He worked as a chef at 2601 Vaughn (now Meriwether's) before starting his own catering company in 1990.

Paul served as chief of staff to then-City Commissioner Charlie Hales from 1999 to 2002.

Paul believes Vancouver, B.C.'s, Granville Island Market is a good model for Portland.

[MarkDaMan]

what in the hell are questions like these? Seriously, I'd ask about what the market might look like, whether it would be a full time extension of the Saturday Market, what kind of timelines we are looking at before it's completed, sources of available funding? but these???

"After the tram debacle, why would Portland taxpayers support another publicly funded project like a market?"

"Opponents of Major League Baseball here have "Bring Major League Education" bumper stickers that mean education trumps frivolities like sports. Why is your project any less of a frivolity?"

"Wouldn't a central market undermine the city's dozens of neighborhood and farmers markets?"

"Given that this still hasn't happened and it's been seven years, what is your reason for optimism?"

[pdxman]

Typical WW questions...i would really appreciate it if the local media would just put the "tram debacle" to rest. Give it up ka-who? and willamette weak

[PDX City-State]

what in the hell are questions like these? Seriously, I'd ask about what the market might look like, whether it would be a full time extension of the Saturday Market, what kind of timelines we are looking at before it's completed, sources of available funding? but these???

Mark--your reactionary response shows you obviously haven't followed this issue too closely--nor really know too much about these types of projects. Why ask questions to which there are no answers?

As stated, they're back to the drawing board. I imagine they've no idea what it's going to look like. It took them years to get a feasability study together for the old site, and being that the article merely states they've set their sites on Union Station, I would guess they're not there yet.

Timelines? This is lip service--doesn't look like there are timelines either. Paul merely wants to put the market at Union Station. There aren't timelines.

Funding--has there ever been funding for the market? However, Paul does answer this question by making the admission that the market could be built with private funds so long as the city restores Union Station, as it ought to.

I personally believe that questions about costs in light of the tram are pretty damned important. I personally would love to see a market happen, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen with public funds--as Paul seems to have admitted here for the first time in print.

The role of the press is not that of a cheerleader.

I would really appeciate it if the local media would just put the "tram debacle" to rest

Look, I support the tram. But put it to rest? In case you were in a coma last summer, realize this project was killed due to the tram. Dead! And the tram will continue to cast a looming shadow on all public projects for years to come. It was way over budget. And the press is just supposed to pretend like it didn't happen? Maybe Nigel Jaquiss was right--South Waterfront is Portland's Iraq.

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

Mark--your reactionary response shows you obviously haven't followed this issue too closely--nor really know too much about these types of projects. Why ask questions to which there are no answers?

actually I have followed this quite closely which is why I made the comment earlier about waking me up when they finally select a site, as it appears this project is failing due to people that can't make final decision. There was never a definitive it is going in FS1, ever. There was consideration of the INS building and parking lot, under the Burnside, even the Customs House was once considered. They aren't at square one, they just need to select an appropriate venue.

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

I imagine they've no idea what it's going to look like.

I hope you understand I'm not talking about renderings. I mean what kind of vendors do they expect, arts and crafts sellers, farmers, fishermen, all of them. They haven't stipulated a clear vision of what they expect this market to be, so it can't be judged whether or not Union Station would make sense.

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

Funding--has there ever been funding for the market?

actually, there has been funding available for both planning, and than the next stage of building this market, from both the federal and city level. Since they can't make a decision, much of that funding has dried up.

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

I personally believe that questions about costs in light of the tram are pretty damned important.

really, there is no building selected, no idea of what might be needed to make it a reality, no preliminary cost figures of what it would take in staffing and annual costs...nothing...so it wouldn't be prudent to ask about funding when the plans are anything but definitive. Is it possible booth rental, PDC assistance, and even donors could cover the cost? This guy hasn't even said it would actually take city funding for it to become reality.

Throwing out an unsubstantiated number is only giving fuel to critics, like the $6B for a new columbia bridge based not on reality, but a hunch. If BoJack and the CPI, and every other 'bitch about everything group' takes the $35M number and runs with it, this project could be doomed before we even know what it might take to make it a reality.

[PDX City-State]

Looks like we agree then--you can't ask questions to which there are no answers.

[MarkDaMan]

and that is sad, after 7 years, 10 years...however long, we still can't get basic question answered. I'd like to see someone else spearhead this!

[PDX City-State]

and that is sad, after 7 years, 10 years...however long, we still can't get basic question answered.

I think that was the point of the interview.

I'd like to see someone else spearhead this!

Agreed, but what we really need is a Paul Allen or Bill Gates who pitches money at such projects. We have no one like that here--and we suffer. Really, it's fucking sad that Portland hasn't a public market. It's the most food-obsessed town I've ever lived in.

[cab]

Seems the project is trying to develop something too high end. Ron Paul is trying to drop out of the sky a character driven local market, top down. That's not how these things grow. 5 years ago if the land on the east side under the Marquam Bridge was provided for people at a very cheap price for commerce, some kind of market would have developed organically into something much bigger by now.

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

what we really need is a Paul Allen or Bill Gates who pitches money at such projects. We have no one like that here--and we suffer.

long ago there was a Portland that wasn't reliant on big pockets to make things happened. Portlanders have a long tradition of making things happen without asking daddy for money and I hate to see that culture lost. When Vista House needed a multimillion dollar renovation, Portlanders contributed to the cause. If the powers that be could come up with a basic plan, and basic costs, they could run a similiar campaign and probably raise a heck of a lot of money for the market, as they probably could for the downtown park renovations too.

[PDX City-State]

Seems the project is trying to develop something too high end. Ron Paul is trying to drop out of the sky a character driven local market, top down. That's not how these things grow. 5 years ago if the land on the east side under the Marquam Bridge was provided for people at a very cheap price for commerce, some kind of market would have developed organically into something much bigger by now.

To point out your irony, you accuse Ron Paul of being top down and suggest a market be built where no one lives.

To his credit, Ron Paul is probably the godfather of local and ingredient driven cuisine in this town. I don't know him, but by all accounts he's a good man who absolutely loves Portland.