Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

And there is room for a variety of opinions, and my opinion is that this "winner" is a terrible choice. There were many great submissions made though, and this is not one of them.

The water acts as a barrier, as do these towers, it will be terrible for traffic flow (especially for East Hastings, Water street, etc...), there is an extreme overkill in plain open grassy fields (a lot of more of the same for Vancouver), etc...

That is my opinion [...].

Again much oft his proposal could even be built with the viaducts still in place, that is the funny point. They seem to be removed just because here.

And yes, i would miss the road winding through the back side of the stadiums, a very cool urban part of Vancouver. Taken away for more repetitive development.

I kind of agree with the opinion above (more especially that the proposal could be build as well with the viaduct in place)

Originally Posted by mr.x

...
The waterway idea would work well, without the absurd green spaces. Having canals right up to buildings or a pedestrian-only street next to these buildings could build a really interesting urban vibe, you could even have boats moored to the edges of canals. Imagine turning Carrall Street into such.
...

What you says seems to be pretty much like it:


(that is submission 109 via this blog)

(Ok, you will find it pretty much too green...). Personally I think the mountain view is iconic enough, and don't see the need of an "iconic building" which has all the chance to turn out bland if not more after a couple of year, to hide a mountain which we know will not turn out of fashion in couple of year or so (like most of the "iconic" building) and hard to copy cat even in Dubai or Shanghai

[s211]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Cries that the existing parks in the area are "full and crowded" are absurd...they never are, and if they are they should be learning to share space -- it's what Downtown living is all about. And even then, parks become the pathetic Vancouver definition of "crowded" only during summer.

Parks in that area aren't crowded because of all of the filth (ever had to do a needle sweep with your soccer team before playing a game? my friends have) and because they're presently in a pretty unhappy area.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I generally argue that they're not crowded because there are quite a large number of decent sized parks also in the area, not that they're all of low quality.

Within a 10 minute walk of where I live there's already quite a high number of parks, most of which are pretty nice.

• MacLean Park
• Strathcona Park
• Trillium Field
• Thornton Park
• Oppenheimer Park
• Creekside Park
• Andy Livingstone Park

Arguably the block where the viaducts come down between Gore and Main could be another unused park site.

[jlousa]

You could throw Coopers and Crab/Portside Park into the mix. Heck even Victory Square is within a 10min walk. It's one of the most park dense areas of the city.

[racc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

And there is room for a variety of opinions, and my opinion is that this "winner" is a terrible choice. There were many great submissions made though, and this is not one of them.

The winner was chosen by the public. It was also one of the four chosen for honourable mention by the jury who chose not to have a winner in that category.

Anyway, they said that in the end, there were lots of great ideas in many of the submissions. What actually happens could be a result of taken ideas from many of the submissions and ideas not included in the submissions.

The point is that it got people thinking and talking about the possibilities which is a good thing.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I generally argue that they're not crowded because there are quite a large number of decent sized parks also in the area, not that they're all of low quality.

Within a 10 minute walk of where I live there's already quite a high number of parks, most of which are pretty nice.

• MacLean Park
• Strathcona Park
• Trillium Field
• Thornton Park
• Oppenheimer Park
• Creekside Park
• Andy Livingstone Park

You haven't stepped on any needles yet?

[Alex Mackinnon]

I wouldn't doubt it happening in Oppenheimer, and I have personally seen needles around in Andy Livingstone, but as far as the rest go I haven't seen anything that would have been out of place where I'm from in South Burnaby. The usual stoners and the like...

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I wouldn't doubt it happening in Oppenheimer, and I have personally seen needles around in Andy Livingstone, but as far as the rest go I haven't seen anything that would have been out of place where I'm from in South Burnaby. The usual stoners and the like...

I've seen needles in Coopers Park and along the seawall to Sunset Beach.

Although it's not in the parks you listed, I've seen many needles in Nelson Park, particularly during the period when the Dawn to Dusk drop in centre was operating out of St. Paul's. Not sure if needles are still a problem there, after the work carried out upgrading the park.

[amor de cosmos]

brent toderian (& judges') commentary
http://www.planetizen.com/node/52892

[hollywoodnorth]

special pic for Geoff Meggs here ...



that's the Viaduct from Friday pic by me with no events in town .... backed up over main street.

wouldn't it be better to have all that traffic packing the other streets into the downtown core ..... or ummmm ..... NOT

[Mousey]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

special pic for Geoff Meggs here ...

that's the Viaduct from Friday pic by me with no events in town .... backed up over main street.

wouldn't it be better to have all that traffic packing the other streets into the downtown core ..... or ummmm ..... NOT

What's the reason for a backup like that if no events are in town?
I know the bike lane reduces capacity, but the lights are sync'd up, and the main flow shouldn't of been into downtown...?

[Sir Conga]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

that's the Viaduct from Friday pic by me with no events in town .... backed up over main street.

wouldn't it be better to have all that traffic packing the other streets into the downtown core ..... or ummmm ..... NOT

I think that pic says more about how inefficient the Viaducts are. If there was even moderate traffic on Pacific, I might see your picture making something close to the point your trying to make.

[p78hub]

People wouldn't be taking Pacific/Expo to go into downtown. Taking Expo wouldn't be as efficient as Dunsmuir since it takes you around Rogers Arena and BC Place and dumps you onto Smithe. Dunsmuir will take you straight to Pacific Centre.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Sir Conga

I think that pic says more about how inefficient the Viaducts are. If there was even moderate traffic on Pacific, I might see your picture making something close to the point your trying to make.

To me it just shows that the Viaducts have a lot more capacity than the intersection at the end of them. When light timings change in off peak hours, the Viaducts are always backed up. The Beatty/Dunsmuir intersection slows everything to a crawl.

[officedweller]

Yeah, it's the traffic light at Beatty that slows things down.

That light would not be (and could not be) synchronized with the light on Prior at Gore Street.

The length of unimpeded flow over the viaducts will always cause a backup at the first traffic light because the number of cars on the viaduct "block" can't get through the Beatty light in one [downtown grid] cycle - so the vehicles caught "mid-block" on the viaduct hit a red light at Beatty.

Synchronized lights need consistent block spacing to work.

The same thing happens southbound on Cambie Bridge in afternoon rush hours when traffic hits the 7th Ave. traffic light. (and probably northbound in the mornings too but I've never been there at that time)

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by amor de cosmos

brent toderian (& judges') commentary
http://www.planetizen.com/node/52892

Did I miss something, or do the "winning" proposals not mention the viaducts (other than obliquely) at all?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Honestyl?

They are essentially the only good option downtown for anyone driving a commercial vehicle. Also, my favorite part of downtown is where the stadiums, the skytrain and the viaducts meet, it is the only spot in our region where one can find a true "urban" beauty. In that one spot it feels so busy, two levels of roads (one serving local, one serving regional), trains, pedestrians, stadiums, towers, LED signs, it great! In fact, such a feature can force developers to be more creative in their designs, creating far more enticing neighborhoods than Yale Town, it also gives a little bit of shove to actually build something besides condos near the ducts. The skate park is another example of a true urban vibe not found elsewhere in this city. There is no reason why night market grounds, more park space or even a multi-story parking garage for the stadiums can not be built under these viaducts! How about even creating a funky urban art gallery? Also, is it not a prime spot to place city work utilities?

Honestly, I don't want every corner of this city to be a Yaletown for developers to ching ching on.

I am probably the minority in this case, but oh well, I can always go back to Asia where one can find elevated highways and train structures that are so well implemented into the urban fabric, that they themselves become an attraction.

Again, I like them, because they add just a little bit or urban variety in a city that while amazing, can become somewhat repetative.

They are noisy, terrible, doning nothing for community.

Wait, I have an Idea....what if we could connect quebec st to kingsway and then put a exit to georgia and dinsmore streets...

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by deasine

Paradigm4 had this idea earlier but this isn't as easy as it sounds. There is quite a bit of change in height (totally the wrong word, but I can't figure out the word I'm looking for). The urban fabric is built around the viaducts: developments like Spectrum have designed their streets around the viaducts. It's better to further design buildings around the viaducts, making them more like streets, rather than tearing them apart.

Unfortionately, who would live near a noisy, polluted viaduct? Just saying.

[fredinno]

Unless you were saying a parking tower or something like that...

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by fredinno

They are noisy, terrible, doning nothing for community.

You could say the Expo line tracks are the exactly same thing......