Cycling Activists Try Opportunism

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not quite.

I am an admitted suburbanite. I neither live nor work in the downtown core of Moncton so I have no skin invested in this debate.

I however did live on the peninsula in Halifax for nine years, and survived quite admirably most of that time just walking everywhere, so I have some sympathies with the south enders. As a current suburbanite however I also understand and sympathize with the alternate point of view as well. Suburbanites do not want to be excluded or hampered in their access to the peninsula. Public transit isn't always an option.

Vehicular access to the peninsula is important. At the same time, I live on the peninsula, in the North End, and I'm well aware that for much of the 20th century, my neighbourhood was used as a traffic sewer for people driving in from elsewhere, replete with surface parking lots, main streets dominated by commuter traffic, and countless buildings destroyed to accommodate autobody shops and other auto-oriented uses people didn't want in their own neighbourhoods.

In any case, a well-designed bike lane needn't hamper drivers. If sharing the road with other users slows commuting by a few minutes, but the pay-off is better, more attractive, healthier and safer neighbourhoods and more transportation options, that's fine by me, as both a driver and cyclist.

[MonctonRad]

Regardless of whether there is a classist struggle between peninsular and non-peninsular Haligonians, the stifling of vehicular access to the peninsula will still ultimately strangulate continuing growth of the downtown commercial and business core. It is inevitable. The proliferation of bicycling lanes at the expense of vehicle lanes (and on street parking) is part of this.

I am not against bicycling infrastructure per se, especially if it is well designed, but I would prefer if sidewalks were sacrificed for bicycle lanes rather than narrowing the streets or eliminating on-street parking. Most streets on the peninsula have sidewalks on both sides. Is this truly necessary? Maybe we should have a pedestrian sidewalk on one side and a bike lane on the other. There are several streets in Moncton like this.

Regardless, the physical geography of Halifax (a narrow necked peninsula) will always serve as an impediment to vehicular access. I strongly concur with other opinions in the thread that it is high time for commuter rail in Halifax. There is nothing that would do more to decompress the situation than by having a well designed and planned commuter rail network in the HRM. Even a single line using the rail cut and extending along Bedford Basin would have a huge impact. I have less faith in an expanded ferry service in that I think there would be significant limitations in the volume of passengers than can be moved, but a thoughtful stepwise expansion of this service might still be beneficial. I also cast a jaundiced eye towards BRT as the city's road network really isn't designed for such a service.

In any event, I think the breaking point has been reached. Something needs to be done to keep the peninsula and the outer reaches of HRM interconnected. My vote is on commuter rail (supplemented by LRT/streetcars on the peninsula).

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Virtually none of it paid for by HRM however.

It is a bit of stretch to compare highway costs for bringing non-commuting visitors and commercial goods to/from the city to largely recreational bike lanes for a tiny fringe minority group to indulge their pastime. Planning dogma indeed.

How do you characterize the provincial and federal funds that are paying the majority of protected bike lanes in the city?

Since when were streets 100% business/industrial and bike paths/lanes recreational?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Regardless of whether there is a classist struggle between peninsular and non-peninsular Haligonians, the stifling of vehicular access to the peninsula will still ultimately strangulate continuing growth of the downtown commercial and business core. It is inevitable. The proliferation of bicycling lanes at the expense of vehicle lanes (and on street parking) is part of this.

Do we actually know that this is happening, or is it speculation? Have any vehicle lanes going on or off peninsula been cut down for bike lanes? That is the real bottleneck.

Sometimes street parking is converted to bike lanes but the on-street parking capacity is minimal compared to the increase in structured parking. Sometimes there's little to no net loss to cars from adding a bike lane because the extra space was not particularly useful to cars (there was enough space for 1.5 car lanes, or there were extra car lanes but the street was never a bottleneck). Furthermore concentrating cyclists along specific routes may actually be better than having more diffuse bicycle traffic mixed in with cars on more streets. And of course if a person takes a bike instead of a car that can mean less traffic. It's not obvious at all that this is a zero sum game where any increase in convenience for cyclists means driving gets worse.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Summerville

How do you characterize the provincial and federal funds that are paying the majority of protected bike lanes in the city?

That's easy - simply more federal spending that it utterly wasteful and unnecessary. Justin trying to buy votes.

Since when were streets 100% business/industrial and bike paths/lanes recreational?

I never said the former. As for the latter, bike lanes will never be a viable way for any significant number of commuters to get to and from work. This is not Copenhagen. Instead, DT Halifax is rapidly becoming the Beirut of Canada, bereft of commercial activity.

[Colin May]

My original post was meant to encourage discussion about commuting for tens of thousands of people, a discussion that has yet to take place at HRM council. HRM staff have never presented the Statscan census data to council. Staff and council seem to think 'active transportation', electric transit,fast ferries and LRT are the solution. I don't.
Understanding where people live and where they work is essential to any spending decisions by the three levels of government. As the population of HRM increases the greatest amount of increase will take place off peninsula and ever increasing housing costs on the peninsula and parts of Dartmouth will result in greater housing development on the suburban periphery. Taking a friend from Dartmouth to Windsor for 7 a.m. day surgery was interesting. At 6 a.m. we saw a steady stream of traffic from Mt Uniacke to Dartmouth; almost bumper to bumper in single file. Somewhat less traffic from Windsor to Mt Uniacke. No doubt this can also be seen on other routes into the peninsula.

[Colin May]

Here is the Grand Plan for HRM spending. New fees on the horizon. Note the precedence given to certain actual/proposed spending : https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...201215bc04.pdf

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's easy - simply more federal spending that it utterly wasteful and unnecessary. Justin trying to buy votes.



I never said the former. As for the latter, bike lanes will never be a viable way for any significant number of commuters to get to and from work. This is not Copenhagen. Instead, DT Halifax is rapidly becoming the Beirut of Canada, bereft of commercial activity.

You're hilarious. However, you have inspired me to give my bike a name,...KEITH!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Instead, DT Halifax is rapidly becoming the Beirut of Canada, bereft of commercial activity.

I'm having a hard time reconciling that with the construction boom. For example Mickey MacDonald et al. starting in on a $100M development on the former Mills site that will have 40,000 square feet of commercial space.

My impression is that downtown Halifax is much more vibrant these days than it was in the (car-friendly) early 2000's (maybe even during the pandemic, not sure). I was last back a couple years ago and it's basically a night and day improvement compared to when I lived there.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Regardless of whether there is a classist struggle between peninsular and non-peninsular Haligonians, the stifling of vehicular access to the peninsula will still ultimately strangulate continuing growth of the downtown commercial and business core. It is inevitable. The proliferation of bicycling lanes at the expense of vehicle lanes (and on street parking) is part of this.

Do you have any examples of this doom & gloom prediction actually occurring? This conclusion seems to jump over a lot of information.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Most streets on the peninsula have sidewalks on both sides. Is this truly necessary? Maybe we should have a pedestrian sidewalk on one side and a bike lane on the other. There are several streets in Moncton like this.

I hate to say this, but Moncton can’t really serve as an example for Halifax, the same way Halifax can’t be an example for Vancouver. Even your average Ontario suburb built in the last couple decades has a sidewalk on each side of the street. Those streets you mentioned with a sidewalk on one side and bike lane on the other are in the far suburbs of Moncton, and are perhaps acceptable in such a place but completely unacceptable in a semi-urban neighbourhood.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Regardless, the physical geography of Halifax (a narrow necked peninsula) will always serve as an impediment to vehicular access. I strongly concur with other opinions in the thread that it is high time for commuter rail in Halifax. There is nothing that would do more to decompress the situation than by having a well designed and planned commuter rail network in the HRM. Even a single line using the rail cut and extending along Bedford Basin would have a huge impact. I have less faith in an expanded ferry service in that I think there would be significant limitations in the volume of passengers than can be moved, but a thoughtful stepwise expansion of this service might still be beneficial. I also cast a jaundiced eye towards BRT as the city's road network really isn't designed for such a service.

In any event, I think the breaking point has been reached. Something needs to be done to keep the peninsula and the outer reaches of HRM interconnected. My vote is on commuter rail (supplemented by LRT/streetcars on the peninsula).

I would have liked a commuter rail too, but past proposals haven’t been able to go anywhere, largely because of freight priority. The ferry is supposed to be more feasible because it doesn’t have the same problems in securing space for a line. Even if it was the compromise, it’s not necessarily a worse option.

For example, if you want to go from the Hong Kong airport to Guangzhou, roughly the equivalent of Halifax to Sheet Harbour, here are the options:

1: High speed rail (60 minutes)

2: Fast ferry (100 minutes)

3: Train (120 minutes)

4: Bus (3-5 hours)

The ferries aren’t our slow cruising boats, catamarans are standard there in different sizes. You could run several small ones for more frequency, but they can get fairly large if you’re in places with high demand.

An LRT or streetcar service on the peninsula is also going to receive the same scrutiny any BRT or bike lane does for the same reasons, so I don’t understand the exception there.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Maybe we should have a pedestrian sidewalk on one side and a bike lane on the other. There are several streets in Moncton like this.

There's a few instances of that here, in this case there was only ever a sidewalk on one side. It's not an area with much pedestrian activity, and outside of rush hour there isn't much vehicular traffic either:

https://goo.gl/maps/kwbo7cFVn7MEMqsY7

There are also a handful of off-street multi-use trails which are essentially combined sidewalks/bike lanes. Generally these didn't replace sidewalks but reused abandoned rail/survey lines, etc.

https://goo.gl/maps/vim95wxKgX3du92e8

Most smaller sidestreets don't have separate bike lanes, just "sharrows" alerting drivers that it's a common cycling route:

https://goo.gl/maps/zGKsfEzeonKXygkq8

There are a few military/industrial areas like the north sections of Windsor and Barrington streets or some of the more parkway-type streets in Dartmouth where it might make sense to only have a sidewalk on one side but in practice sidewalks are almost always prioritized over both bike lanes and vehicular lanes.

The city's actually been putting a lot of effort into expanding/relandscaping sidewalks and redesigning key intersections for transit priority (the latter mostly benefiting commuters from the suburbs) although these don't get as much attention.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'm having a hard time reconciling that with the construction boom. For example Mickey MacDonald et al. starting in on a $100M development on the former Mills site that will have 40,000 square feet of commercial space.

My impression is that downtown Halifax is much more vibrant these days than it was in the (car-friendly) early 2000's (maybe even during the pandemic, not sure). I was last back a couple years ago and it's basically a night and day improvement compared to when I lived there.

Yes, there are lots of new buildings constructed on spec. There are far fewer actual tenants. With HRM's latest debacle of HotSpot parking that inconveniences anyone not using a smartphone to access the payment app, replacing meters, even fewer people in vehicles will venture downtown. Just another salvo in their battle to eradicate private vehicles and the people they carry from the downtown.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

My impression is that downtown Halifax is much more vibrant these days than it was in the (car-friendly) early 2000's (maybe even during the pandemic, not sure). I was last back a couple years ago and it's basically a night and day improvement compared to when I lived there.

Absolutely. Downtown and the peninsula overall is very healthy. I was really wondering what this year would bring, and how the city centre would feel with reduced tourist numbers, and even locals venturing out less out of COVID precaution. Turns out it feels fine, like a healthy and vibrant city.

Halifax now has enough critical mass downtown that it doesn't need to kowtow to the relatively small number of people who refuse to venture onto the peninsula just because it's marginally more difficult to drive and park there than in the suburbs.

I don't think we ought to actively thwart drivers just for the heck of it--this is still Canada, and Halifax is a small city surrounded by post-war suburbs and rural areas. I think sometimes urbanists get a little too starry-eyed about Amsterdam and Copenhagen and the like, and unrealistic about the kinds of urban environments and transport options we have in Canada. Dramatically reducing private vehicle use in the city centre is a noble goal, but transit infrastructure and other investments needs to come before congestion charges and the like. People have to want to get out of their cars, and find it easy to do so--more carrot, less stick.

On the other hand, drivers are so used to having the run of the road just about everywhere in the province that even the mildest inconvenience must strike many as an attack and a terrible burden. Removing a few parking spaces for a bike lane is not an attack on drivers, and anyone who spends any time at all downtown, even in this strange year, should be able to attest that the area is not suffering in the least.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Absolutely. Downtown and the peninsula overall is very healthy. I was really wondering what this year would bring, and how the city centre would feel with reduced tourist numbers, and even locals venturing out less out of COVID precaution. Turns out it feels fine, like a healthy and vibrant city.

Halifax now has enough critical mass downtown that it doesn't need to kowtow to the relatively small number of people who refuse to venture onto the peninsula just because it's marginally more difficult to drive and park there than in the suburbs.

The facts would tend to belie your account. Restaurants and bars being closed would immediately have a large negative impact on the number of people DT along with of course, massive economic implications even with the reckless largesse spending by JT & co which will eventually have to run out and be repaid. The tourism sector is completely dead, removing another large cohort of customers. The area is pretty much silent at night now. Indeed, the strategy of HRM Planning is exactly as you describe, to make downtown an area friendly only to those who live there. But that level of population is not enough to keep all those pre-existing businesses afloat, which relied on people coming DT either from the suburbs or from out of town. A reckoning is dead ahead.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Yes, there are lots of new buildings constructed on spec. There are far fewer actual tenants. With HRM's latest debacle of HotSpot parking that inconveniences anyone not using a smartphone to access the payment app, replacing meters, even fewer people in vehicles will venture downtown. Just another salvo in their battle to eradicate private vehicles and the people they carry from the downtown.

We will need to wait for census data for your claim about residential tenants. As for commercial tenants there have been several new retail establishments open even during these difficult times.

The new pay system for parking is supposed to make it easier to park downtown. They are used in many places, and a complaint some visitors to Canada have is that paying for parking is inconvenient and old-fashioned.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I think sometimes urbanists get a little too starry-eyed about Amsterdam and Copenhagen and the like, and unrealistic about the kinds of urban environments and transport options we have in Canada. Dramatically reducing private vehicle use in the city centre is a noble goal, but transit infrastructure and other investments needs to come before congestion charges and the like. People have to want to get out of their cars, and find it easy to do so--more carrot, less stick.

On the other hand, drivers are so used to having the run of the road just about everywhere in the province that even the mildest inconvenience must strike many as an attack and a terrible burden. Removing a few parking spaces for a bike lane is not an attack on drivers, and anyone who spends any time at all downtown, even in this strange year, should be able to attest that the area is not suffering in the least.

I agree. But I think most of the time the conflict is exaggerated, and money spent on cycling in particular is a very small portion of the overall budget that is proportional to the modal share.

Remember the complaining about how developing the parking lots around Spring Garden Road would kill it? For a lot of people those Clyde lots were their go-to spots, and you used to hear the argument that people in Halifax won't use structured parking, and women in particular are afraid of it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

We will need to wait for census data for your claim about residential tenants. As for commercial tenants there have been several new retail establishments open even during these difficult times.

There are office market reports. I'd guess that 2020 is bad (it's apocalyptic in many cities) but here's Q4 2019 from Colliers: https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...20to%2012.6%25.

+40,000 sq ft absorption or so for downtown in Q4 2019. It seems to me like there's a steady stream of modest new office projects downtown, and a trend toward mixed use buildings rather than large towers. I wonder if the office tower phenomenon itself basically peaked in the 80's or so, and if it even makes sense to consider new office towers are marker of success for a downtown area in the 2020's. Halifax in particular also lacks big tenants that will tend to drive the construction of unusually large/tall buildings. A lot of the major office tower projects in other places are essentially public-private development schemes with a big lead tenant or public institution.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

There are office market reports. I'd guess that 2020 is bad (it's apocalyptic in many cities) but here's Q4 2019 from Colliers: https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...20to%2012.6%25.

+40,000 sq ft absorption or so for downtown in Q4 2019. It seems to me like there's a steady stream of modest new office projects downtown, and a trend toward mixed use buildings rather than large towers. I wonder if the office tower phenomenon itself basically peaked in the 80's or so, and if it even makes sense to consider new office towers are marker of success for a downtown area in the 2020's. Halifax in particular also lacks big tenants that will tend to drive the construction of unusually large/tall buildings. A lot of the major office tower projects in other places are essentially public-private development schemes with a big lead tenant or public institution.

I hadn’t considered office tenants, but the fact that vacancy has declined with an influx of new space is better than I would have imagined for Halifax. I remember the issue of office vacancy being raised in the Herald over Queen’s Marque a few years ago. Avoiding speculation, I’m really curious to see where office towers go in the future.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I hadn’t considered office tenants, but the fact that vacancy has declined with an influx of new space is better than I would have imagined for Halifax. I remember the issue of office vacancy being raised in the Herald over Queen’s Marque a few years ago. Avoiding speculation, I’m really curious to see where office towers go in the future.

I've been wondering how say Barrington, Gottingen, and Spring Garden Road will turn out when the construction calms down a bit, at least along the main retail portions. The effect could be dramatic if the influx of new tenants, residential and commercial, coincides with a post-covid rebound. It is too bad that the United Gulf site development and Press Block have not started up yet, because now's (or 6 months ago) is/was a great time to get construction disruption out of the way.

Construction often gives a kind of false sense of vibrancy in a commercial area. It's good in the long run but in the short term it's a negative for shops nearby. So during the construction a district is often less healthy than it was before construction, for a while. Then it hits a new better equilibrium when the streets are cleaned up and tenants move in.

I'd guess most people prefer Argyle now to what it was like during the years when the Herald was there or the years when the pit was there.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'd guess most people prefer Argyle now to what it was like during the years when the Herald was there or the years when the pit was there.

Absolutely. The Nova Centre could have done a better job addressing the sidewalk (i.e., not being so monolithic, employing a storefront scale more fitting with the buildings on the east side of the street). And the lighting is still garish at night. But it's a better street now than it has been in living memory, probably.