PHILADELPHIA | 30th Street Station District | 1,200 FT - 180 FT | 85 - 12 FLOORS

[Nova08]

Fundamentally though...who pays? CSX isn't paying when they have a system that works today.

1.) The High Line was originally 2 tracks, the entire length.

2.) The east bank line provides access to the NEC where a freight track parallels to Frankford Junction and then diverges to cross the Delaware. If you take away the east side line completely, you need to follow with new connections in one of these fantasy diagrams. Though you can still keep that connection and eliminate the remaining track into center city

3.) Forgotten Bottom yard = CSX East Side Yard. East side yard was never a major yard and simply not big enough to substantially relieve Greenwich Yard next to the Navy Yard. And FWIW, the current Greenwich yard is about half the size it was back in the PRR days. East side yard is essentially land locked so it cannot be drastically expanded. Trains out of Greenwich yard are regularly 100-200 cars long.

4.) There are sections of single track on the CSX line both north and south of center city (Darby to Chester & along the West Trenton line). If you notice trains just sitting on the east bank tracks by the trail, occasionally this is a result of "staging" trains that are waiting for the tracks ahead to clear. Eliminate the east bank tracks and CSX loses this flexibility.

5.) A bit irrelevant, but worth noting on these fantasy diagrams. Conrail uses the Septa airport line tracks from 61st St. to where the airport line diverges up the bridge to the airport. These tracks are the Chester Secondary and head to Chester and a few of the remaining refineries along the river.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Mappy

I went back at looked at it closer.
It does seem possible If they can just slightly widen the tunnel by the zoo. There are a bunch of other difficult engineering steps too, but It could be worth it since, like you said, 25th would be freed up, the schuylkill banks would be freed up, the tunnels under Pennsylvania ave would be freed up, and the forgotten bottom yards could be reconfigured. Though Im curious to see your alignment because i dont particularly like where my new bridge crosses the schuylkill.
check out my two track alignment for CSX here

And here's the overall "fantasy" transit system though I like to think it is a mostly measured/possible system

Pulling my old map out, it looks like we both have the bridge at the same place -- Gideon's Point according to Google Maps. It'd still be a movable bridge, but I doubt that'd be a problem.

[City Wide]

[QUOTE=Nova08;7937777]Fundamentally though...who pays? CSX isn't paying when they have a system that works today. QUOTE]

A couple thoughts, just like any public taking of land for a new park, there would be a large exchange of $$$ if the east side tracks were sold. Also think the various ways millions have been spent in the past on the present park because the tracks are there, ramps, bridges, overpasses and 'in the river' boardwalks. Some were needed to get into the park anyways but many are there just to avoid the tracks. Going forward as the park grows and expands the same type of infra structure will be needed so in theory all these monies could be used to make whatever changes are needed so the east side tracks can be removed.
Along the Delaware river, north of south St., there is a short line railroad that has 2.2 miles of track rights that is managed by Conrail and used by both NS and CSX. Maybe that could be used as a model of sorts on how to manage trackage where more then one RR needs access to tracks if the east side tracks go away. My understanding is that this type of arrangement was commonly used back when there were many more rail companies then now, and such interaction wasn't so unusual.

[Kidphilly]

with the rail maps am curious, would it possible to put a regional rail stop at SG, with development taking place there it might make sense not sure how logistically challenging that would be

[summersm343]

Amtrak postpones search for 30th Street developer amid Amazon HQ pursuit

Amtrak has postponed its search for a developer to remake the area around 30th Street Station amid signals that city officials plan to pitch an adjacent swath of University City to e-commerce giant Amazon as a potential site for its planned second headquarters campus.

Amtrak’s lead contract administrator, Carole Owens, said in an email Monday to potential “request for qualifications” applicants who had registered for an Oct. 11 tour of the station area that the search would be delayed until early 2018.

“While Philadelphia is still determining the best site to present to Amazon, Amtrak feels it best to suspend its solicitation for a master developer until such time a decision on the Amazon headquarters has been made,” Owens said in the email.

The transit agency issued the request in late August to seek a master developer for the first phases of a decadeslong, $6.5 billion redevelopment vision for the area known as the 30th Street Station District Plan.

Adjacent to the District Plan area is the site of the proposed Schuylkill Yards redevelopment project, which city officials are expected to propose to Amazon as a headquarters location.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...-20171002.html

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Amtrak postpones search for 30th Street developer amid Amazon HQ pursuit



http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...-20171002.html

I don't quite understand this - I would think that having a developer on board and ready to go by the time Amazon makes up its mind about where to locate their HQ2 would be an advantage - why put it off?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

I don't quite understand this - I would think that having a developer on board and ready to go by the time Amazon makes up its mind about where to locate their HQ2 would be an advantage - why put it off?

Probably so they can coordinate their efforts. I think it makes sense.

If Amazon does pick Philadelphia and Schuylkill Yards, it would be smart for Amtrak to award Brandywine a few development plots so it's all under one developer, and easy for Amazon to work with. Have different plots owned by different developers makes things difficult.

[Boku]

Amtrak Reveals Preferred Concept for Station Plaza

Amtrak has completed the next phase of its planning work revealing the preferred concept for Station Plaza, a grand civic place surrounding all four sides of 30th Street Station. The refined concept incorporates community and customer feedback received at an open house during the summer and offers solutions to customer parking and drop-off locations, improves pedestrian flow around the station, enhances lighting for better security and visibility and provides safer walking and driving conditions.

http://www.phillydistrict30.com/

[Mr Saturn64]

The plaza looks good. It'll be nice to see all this park space around 30th Street. I can't help but notice that the Transit Terminal Tower now looks different, and much shorter.

[iheartphilly]

delete

[iheartphilly]

[QUOTE=Boku;7984691]Amtrak Reveals Preferred Concept for Station Plaza



http://www.phillydistrict30.com/



I really like this pic. Nice curves to the 30th street station. Our little version (obviously not an exact copy) of Oculus in NYC. The bold designs should all be focus around 30th street station. For me, it will show the renaissance of Philly's economy and hoping that it leads to our version of Silicon Valley.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Does this mean we've been saved from "Polka Dot Park?" I'm not sure what I think of the open area below surface. Reminds me too much of Penn Center (with a Calatrava-esque canopy).

[summersm343]

Looks great!

[MetaldDeth81]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Does this mean we've been saved from "Polka Dot Park?"

I hope so!

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Mr Saturn64

I can't help but notice that the Transit Terminal Tower now looks different, and much shorter.

The SY buildings look like bland boxes too. I don't think this betokens anything. They're all just background/placeholders. Who knows what will get built.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

The SY buildings look like bland boxes too. I don't think this betokens anything. They're all just background/placeholders. Who knows what will get built.

"betokens"?

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Does this mean we've been saved from "Polka Dot Park?" I'm not sure what I think of the open area below surface. Reminds me too much of Penn Center (with a Calatrava-esque canopy).

But without the polka dots how will anyone be able to tell where the steel columns are that support the plaza?! The horror of it all.

Even though there are a lot of different views in these drawings (computers are very good at this) the level of detail strike me as still being ones that are made early in the design process. I think these are better then the last batch that were released, but still have a long way to go. Having 29th St. become two way seems like its just going to add to what is already a nasty traffic area. I also don't understand their need to completely ignore the success of "the porch" and propose a cold a inhuman plaza between the station and Market St.

[jsbrook]

[QUOTE=iheartphilly;7984703]

Originally Posted by Boku

Amtrak Reveals Preferred Concept for Station Plaza



http://www.phillydistrict30.com/



I really like this pic. Nice curves to the 30th street station. Our little version (obviously not an exact copy) of Oculus in NYC. The bold designs should all be focus around 30th street station. For me, it will show the renaissance of Philly's economy and hoping that it leads to our version of Silicon Valley.

I was going to say looks like an aborted Oculus...Not sure I like it. I'd rather see something more original. The rest of the plaza render looks nice, though.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

"betokens"?

be·to·ken
bəˈtōkən
3rd person present: betokens

be a sign of; indicate.

be a warning or indication of (a future event).

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

be·to·ken
bəˈtōkən
3rd person present: betokens

be a sign of; indicate.

be a warning or indication of (a future event).

LOL...this is some kind of vernacular from the 15th Century...going old school.